Open Carry Experience

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I heard all the " they will take your gun " and " you will be the first target" . I started my own research and I found no hard proof that this was true. In fact I found more where conceal carriers ( not against conceal carriers ) were attacked. I by no means am saying that it won't happen. I am just saying from statistics it has proven to be a non factor.
One common error that is made is assuming that the rarity of a particular event is significant.

It MAY be significant if there are frequent opportunities for such an event to take place, but it may simply mean that the circumstances under which such an event can take place don't occur very often.

One needs some control data in order to draw accurate conclusions. In the absence of any valid statistical control data, simply assuming that the rarity of gun grabs involving open carriers is meaningful is completely invalid. That is because without being able to accurately quantify how common/rare open carry is, one can't draw any accurate conclusions about any events involving open carry.

Let's use a somewhat amusing example I recently posted in another thread. Assume that someone claimed it is very dangerous for elderly female rocket scientists to bungee jump in the nude when using frayed and old bungee ropes. Without knowing how common it is for elderly female rocket scientist to bungee jump in the nude with old bungee ropes, one might do a search and find that there have NEVER been any injuries or fatalities recorded involving those circumstances.

That might prompt a person to believe that it's perfectly safe for a 70 year old female rocket scientist to bungee jump in the nude even if the bungee ropes are old and frayed. In reality, what's going on ( in that admittedly ridiculous scenario) is that no one has ever actually been foolish enough to undertake such an action and therefore no one has ever even had the chance to be injured or killed as a result.

In similar fashion, because open carry (amongst civilians) is pretty rare (especially in urban or suburban situations), it is quite unusual to find any incidents at all involving open carry--let alone very specific types of incidences like gun grabs.

This is part of why it's common for the more aggressive open carry advocates to refuse to accept any sort of information based on police open carry and gun grabs. Restricting the data pool to a very limited number of possible data sources (the relatively small number of non-LEOs who open carry) virtually insures that there are almost no negative incidents available.

So--with that out of the way, I'm interested in the statistics you found. Based on the statistics you found, what percentage of the population carries openly and how many of those have been attacked and/or had their guns taken?

What percentage of the population conceal carries and how many of them were attacked and/or had their guns taken?

It's generally very difficult to compare the two because any accurate comparison will absolutely require knowing the percentages of the population that conceal carry and open carry and then how many of each group are attacked/have their guns taken. I'm impressed that you were able to find that information and I hope you will share it with the rest of us.
 
I am a little dismayed at some of the comments. "I can't think of a good reason the "normal citizen" ought to open carry." I find this comment downright disturbing. Reminds me of people saying "I can't think of a good reason the "normal citizen" ought to own an assault weapon...own a pistol...own a gun."

I think the big advantage to open carry is to dispell the myth so many have that guns are evil. If it became commonplace to see average, law abiding citizens going about their routine business while armed, the fear of guns would be lessened and they would slowly become accepted as a normal part of daily life. This should be our goal.

Yes, right now people often freak out at the sight of someone wearing a pistol. This is the guns are evil syndrome. This is what we need to address.

Some ask "Why open carry?" I ask "Why not?" I feel that as a citizen with a legal right to own a gun I have the right to carry it in the manner I choose.
 
Based on the statistics you found, what percentage of the population carries openly and how many of those have been attacked and/or had their guns taken?

What percentage of the population conceal carries and how many of them were attacked and/or had their guns taken?

It's generally very difficult to compare the two because any accurate comparison will absolutely require knowing the percentages of the population that conceal carry and open carry and then how many of each group are attacked/have their guns taken. I'm impressed that you were able to find that information and I hope you will share it with the rest of us.
To answer your question to the best of my ability. I found no cases none.That is why I called it a non issue. When open carry was about to take affect in Oklahoma some reporters went to states where open carry was already in affect. They could not find anything either. And I am sure they were looking for something negative. They found it to be a non issue. On the issue of gun grabs. I have seen one story about and open carrier having his gun stolen. Just one and if anyone would read it the whole story sounded made up http://koin.com/2014/10/07/man-practicing-open-carry-law-robbed-of-gun/. I often hear about LEO getting guns grabbed. I have talked to LEO about that and they agree that the only time it has happen to any of them was when they were trying to arrest or detain someone and that person was trying to get away. The only things I can add is no matter if you open carry, conceal carry or don't carry you need to pay attention to your surroundings. Most gun people have their minds made up. No matter what. I stand on what i said before research for yourself and don't just listen to mindless babble you read in a forum.
 
Some ask "Why open carry?" I ask "Why not?" I feel that as a citizen with a legal right to own a gun I have the right to carry it in the manner I choose.
Sure you do. And so do I. I choose not to OC even though I have a legal right to as i feel it would cause more problems for me than it would solve. I do plan to CC as soon as I have a right to (still waiting on permit) because I feel the opposite is true.
 
" I do plan to CC as soon as I have a right to (still waiting on permit)..."

That's also unfortunate thinking. Some government agency grants you rights? That means the same government agency can deny you those rights.

Rights preexist the formation of the government. The rights are ours regardless of how the government feels about it. The government is obliged to recognize your rights...not grant them.
 
off and on

I'm seeing it off and on, more so than in times past. But the pattern/look seems mostly the same.

Cheap gun, cheaper holster, and often a macho T-shirt.

A political statement, and a psychological one too.
 
" I do plan to CC as soon as I have a right to (still waiting on permit)..."

That's also unfortunate thinking. Some government agency grants you rights? That means the same government agency can deny you those rights.

Now you're just mincing words. Yes, I have an inalienable right to bear arms (which is recognized by the US constitution), but that does not mean I can carry a concealed handgun without facing serious legal repercussions from a government that has declared the practice illegal until such time as "they" have approved me to do so. I think I'll wait for the permit.
 
To answer your question to the best of my ability. I found no cases none.
Well, I've found a couple, but that doesn't tell us anything useful unless we know how many people are open carrying. Just throwing some random numbers out--2 cases out of 1,000 people open carrying might be pretty significant. 2 cases out of 20,000,000 people open carrying would hardly be worth mentioning.
That is why I called it a non issue. When open carry was about to take affect in Oklahoma some reporters went to states where open carry was already in affect. They could not find anything either. And I am sure they were looking for something negative. They found it to be a non issue.
Well, if they have the statistics on how many people open carry then they might have found it to be a non-issue. What they likely found is just that it doesn't happen often. If (as seems to be the case) open carry is pretty rare even in states where it's legal, then not finding incidents of open carry gun grabs doesn't tell us much. We would already expect them to be pretty rare because open carry is pretty rare.
I stand on what i said before research for yourself and don't just listen to mindless babble you read in a forum.
I agree 100%. I've done a good bit of research on this and have found a couple of incidents of open carry gun grabs and even one or two concealed carry gun grabs. However, as I've said, without the statistics showing how many people open carry and how many conceal carry, it's impossible to make a worthwhile comparison and equally impossible to actually assess the risk.

It's like saying that there were a million fatal cases of disease x last year and so it's a big deal but there were only 5000 fatal cases of disease y last year and so it's not a big deal. Without knowing that the million cases of disease x were taken from the worldwide population (0.014% incidence) and the statistics on the 5000 cases of disease y were taken only from the country of San Merino (population 31,000) (16% incidence) it's not possible to determine which disease actually poses a serious threat.

By the way, I'm not arguing against open carry, just pointing out that it's not nearly as easy to dismiss concerns about the risks of open carry as many people seem to think it is. Attempting to dismiss such concerns on the basis of statistical data but without the proper control data and statistics to work with, falls into the category of wishful thinking/rationalization/mindless babble.
 
I am a little dismayed at some of the comments. "I can't think of a good reason the "normal citizen" ought to open carry."

I find this comment downright disturbing.

Reminds me of people saying "I can't think of a good reason the "normal citizen" ought to own an assault weapon...own a pistol...own a gun."

Those statements aren't even remotely the same.
It's just silly to give away your tactical advantage by saying:

"Look at me and my gun"
 
I open carry from time to time. Never seems to cause any problem. I see others once in a while. Same thing. Nobody seems to notice.

I'm not out in the boonies either. I'm smack in the 95 corridor between DC and Petersburg, Va.
 
Unless I missed it in here somewhere- and no one has yet touched on- one of the major perks of the upcomming (presumably) passage of TX's OC law is that protection will be provided for the "peekers". By "Peekers", I mean those who CC, but worry (however rightfully so) that they will be caught, ratted out, charged, striped of their CHL, etc if their shirt should ride up or their CC is inadvertantly displayed in some other innocent manner.

It's purely speculation on my part, but my prediction is that there will be quite a few OC'ers the first few months to a year. Then it will fade off to the hunters, rural folks, small town folk, PX Rangers and other uber-macho types. After a year, I suspect we'll be just like every other OC state. Again, that's just my prediction from my point of view. I don't live in, or frequent, larger cities like DFW, San Antonio, Austin, Houston- so folks around there may have a different expectation.

Will I OC? I doubt it. But it would be nice to know there could be less risk of somebody getting their drawers in a bunch if my holster peeks out from under my shirt tail.
 
I appreciate the feedback on how many people oc when permitted. The oc debate has dominated the news recently, and I felt a little odd about never having put much thought into it. The liberal media seems intent on spreading the idea that as soon as oc passes every adult male in the state will wear a Colt Python in a thigh holster, and that they will all suddenly decide to endanger children by hanging out at neighborhood parks and playgrounds. I now feel fairly confident that the majority of us will continue to carry concealed.
 
This is why the battle to preserve the Second Amendment has been so difficult and why we have lost so much ground. So many people do not consider gun ownership as an absolute right but as a privilege granted by the government. They allow the government to tell them how to exercise their right. They allow the government to dictate the terms of their right. That is no right under those conditions.

When the government can tell us which guns we may and may not own, what type of ammo we may and may not own, how and when we may carry a gun...we have no right to gun ownership, only a privilege bestowed on us by the government.
 
I live in KY, a 'Gold Standard' for open carry.:p

However it has been my experience here and in VA that you show up on people's radar, good or bad. I've had pats on the back, handshakes, OC conversations and even an interview on the news, along with a near meltdown and 911 call from a really scared lady.

Bottom line...I don't want any of that! If people would just leave me the heck alone, I'd open carry every time.

Unless I missed it in here somewhere- and no one has yet touched on- one of the major perks of the upcomming (presumably) passage of TX's OC law is that protection will be provided for the "peekers". By "Peekers", I mean those who CC, but worry (however rightfully so) that they will be caught, ratted out, charged, striped of their CHL, etc if their shirt should ride up or their CC is inadvertantly displayed in some other innocent manner.

They did away with the 'printing' law a while back.

I (had) friends that open carry, but soon discovered they were doing it so they could bully people into their way of thinking. The wife had an issue with her used vehicle she bought and made sure she was "packing heat" in an obvious way when returning it for service.:mad:

As for this "armed society is a polite society" BS, I don't want to worry that someone will pull a gun on me if I have words with them about something they did to offend me or my loved ones. It's happened quite a few times here, with more than a few fatalities. That's why I'm not in favor of 'constitutional carry' without any background check or training whatsoever.
 
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Living in Texas and carrying every day, I've watched the legislature chew on this issue in the current session. I hope it and companion bills allowing CC on college campuses with a CHL are passed and signed into law. More freedom is always better than less.

That said, I will never open carry. Keeping guns concealed means nobody, including any folks with criminal intent, know who is armed and who isn't. I'd like to keep that a surprise. I also feel that making some of my neighbors and fellow Texans uneasy isn't worth it. People in "shall issue" states know there are folks amongst them carrying guns, but I'm guessing many don't particularly want to be reminded of it every minute.

I'm guessing that if it passes, there will be people openly carrying for a while. Once the novelty wears off, I think it will be back to concealing those handguns. It just makes sense to me.
 
"More freedom is always better than less"

That is why I hope it passes! I also want to campus carry to pass.


Phil
Wichita Falls
 
I am a little dismayed at some of the comments. "I can't think of a good reason the "normal citizen" ought to open carry." I find this comment downright disturbing. Reminds me of people saying "I can't think of a good reason the "normal citizen" ought to own an assault weapon...own a pistol...own a gun."

I wholeheartedly agree with SaxonPig. I can't think of a good reason every "normal citizen" shouldn't have the option to OC without fear of being mistook for a criminal or for being ostracized by fellow gun owners. Your normal, everyday gun owner should know the risks of being targeted carrying openly vs concealed and weight those before making their decision. That's just part of being a responsible gun owner. Just as seeing a person obviously carrying a legal firearm in a legal manner should not offend other "normal citizens".

Those statements aren't even remotely the same.
It's just silly to give away your tactical advantage by saying:

"Look at me and my gun"

For folks that think that OCing is just about folks showing off their firearm, they don't have a clue. While yes, some folks are doing it to show off, those same folks wear a Pro-gun T-shirt while driving a truck with a "from my cold dead hands" bumper sticker. I wonder how many of those that think OCers are just show-offs are wearing their NRA or Ruger hat while shopping at Wally-World?

OC has been legal in my state forever. Most folks here also own guns and if not, know what they look like and that the majority of them are owned by responsible citizens. I OC a 1911 regularly in a shoulder holster because it's just a handy way to have it with me. I have other options for CC. Over the years, I have yet to have anyone scream "he's got a gun!", act scared or give me any grief. If I get any response at all, it's usually "nice gun" or "nice rig".

Like SaxonPig, I think it's ridiculous that anyone that claims they're "pro 2nd Amendment" feels it's okay to "infringe" upon the legal gun rights of other "normal citizens". Always amazes me how many folks want the 2nd Amendment interpreted only their way. I wonder if they're wearing a t-shirt with the Gadsden Flag on it at the same time?
 
Like SaxonPig, I think it's ridiculous that anyone that claims they're "pro 2nd Amendment" feels it's okay to "infringe" upon the legal gun rights of other "normal citizens".
The underlying problem is the willful polarization of the debate. Suggesting that people exercise caution and discretion isn't the same thing as approving infringements on a right.
 
Originally posted by Tom Servo:

Suggesting that people exercise caution and discretion isn't the same thing as approving infringements on a right.

You're correct, but since when is the statement "I can't think of a good reason the "normal citizen" ought to open carry." a suggestion to exercise caution as opposed to the approval of an infringement? Is that any different than beating your chest and claiming that no legitimate hunter needs a semi-auto, or a suppressed rifle, or a mag capacity of more than 5 rounds? No. Both are a do as I do, or don't do at all.

Again, I OC regularly, but do so using caution and discretion. I readily suggest to others considering OCing where legal, to do the same. I also tell hunters to be safe, and exercise caution when going into the woods/field. I'll not tell them not to do what is safe and legal, just because I don't do it that way.:rolleyes:
 
since when is the statement "I can't think of a good reason the "normal citizen" ought to open carry." a suggestion to exercise caution as opposed to the approval of an infringement?
He expressed an opinion on the utility of the practice. I don't see him advocating for infringement of the practice.

They're two different things, and therein lies our problem.
 
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