Obama's true color and Rev. Wright
- Thread starter Musketeer
- Start date
Nutball Conspiracy Theories ...
See -- this is the difference in perspective.
Where many people see Rev. Wright's statements as "Nutball Conspiracy Theories," many other people remember this little chapter of American history: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762136.html
Again, I'm not trying to send anyone on a guilt trip -- I couldn't care less about that. I'm simply trying to get you to see why some people think/feel the way they do.
See -- this is the difference in perspective.
Where many people see Rev. Wright's statements as "Nutball Conspiracy Theories," many other people remember this little chapter of American history: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762136.html
Again, I'm not trying to send anyone on a guilt trip -- I couldn't care less about that. I'm simply trying to get you to see why some people think/feel the way they do.
Such experiments were evil and also IN THE PAST. 30+ years in the past. I had a college history professor who got to go back to the VA for testing due to his proximity to A Bomb tests after WWII.
Wright doesn't see the universal condemnation of the tests you mention. He doesn't see the removal of colored drinking fountains and colored areas on buses. He doesn't see the manner in which white racists are despised in the media, vilified, fired from their positions and turned into outcasts.
He only sees the mistakes of previous generations and wishes to hold all future ones accountable for them. Claiming all whites are guilty because of wrongs done to blacks generations ago is racist and no amount of muddying the water changes that.
Wright doesn't see the universal condemnation of the tests you mention. He doesn't see the removal of colored drinking fountains and colored areas on buses. He doesn't see the manner in which white racists are despised in the media, vilified, fired from their positions and turned into outcasts.
He only sees the mistakes of previous generations and wishes to hold all future ones accountable for them. Claiming all whites are guilty because of wrongs done to blacks generations ago is racist and no amount of muddying the water changes that.
Yes, as far as I know they were all white GI's they put in the trenches close to the White Sands A Bomb tests. Some later had illness traced to high radiation exposure.
I am not a typical average white person...I am typical average red-neck from Kentucky.
(All dumb Kentuckian jokes will be reported to the ACLU)
Does Obama's mentor want God to damn only certain people in America, or should God damn everyone in America? Or is it just the government that should be damned, and not the citizens of America?
Maybe the answer to this question will help me understand how proclaiming that God should damn America has helped people.
Perhaps Obama should bring Wright to address the troops so that Wright can tell them directly that God should damn America. I'd like to see their reaction to that statement.
Maybe the answer to this question will help me understand how proclaiming that God should damn America has helped people.
Perhaps Obama should bring Wright to address the troops so that Wright can tell them directly that God should damn America. I'd like to see their reaction to that statement.
What is the "norm"?
Where on the history of mankind on this earth is there any nation, tribe, or group of people who at some time in their history did not do things to other people that were later called "evil"? Where are they? Where were they? Can anyone point them out?, as I cannot seem to find them.
I was speaking of the men, and the society in which they grew up. Like it or not, we are all molded to a greater or lesser extent by the society in which we mature. We may embrace it, or reject it, or something in between, but it shapes our lives and attitudes, there is no getting around that.
And, While there were societies in the western hemisphere before the Europeans showed up, and some of them may very well not have had the kind of social order practiced by Europeans of the day as the norm, others of them quite literally did, with kings, priests and peasant classes of their own. And some of them gloried in human sacrifice.
I say again, there are no people on earth that do not have blood on their hands, if you look. It may be only a little, or it may be a lot. It may be the blood of others, or it may be the blood of their own. Or it may be both.
The best of mankind has come a long way from the primitive savage who would kill or enslave anyone weaker, simply because they could. The worst of mankind has not come all that far. And we all have the same thing in common, we all wear the same skin. Human.
History is a great subject for study, so that we may learn from it, hopefully to avoid the mistakes made by those who have gone before. But it works best when we remember and study ALL of it, both the good and the bad.
On a personal scale, how far back does yours go? Your father's generation? His fathers? His father's father's father's? Back to the beginning? where should one draw the line, if at all. Africa, Asia, Europe, even North and South America, all the places where humans live or have lived have been sites of evil and injustice done by one group on another, one individual on another. For myself, I answer for my own actions, and no other. I acknowledge that people of my social group have not always behaved in completely civilised manners. Even some people in my particular bloodline family may have done so, but I resent the blanket accusation of guilt from anyone who does not know me, and has never met me, and likely never will. I had nothing to do with things before my birth, as did most of us here, and I cannot see any logic to holding any of us to blame for the past.
Where on the history of mankind on this earth is there any nation, tribe, or group of people who at some time in their history did not do things to other people that were later called "evil"? Where are they? Where were they? Can anyone point them out?, as I cannot seem to find them.
I was speaking of the men, and the society in which they grew up. Like it or not, we are all molded to a greater or lesser extent by the society in which we mature. We may embrace it, or reject it, or something in between, but it shapes our lives and attitudes, there is no getting around that.
And, While there were societies in the western hemisphere before the Europeans showed up, and some of them may very well not have had the kind of social order practiced by Europeans of the day as the norm, others of them quite literally did, with kings, priests and peasant classes of their own. And some of them gloried in human sacrifice.
I say again, there are no people on earth that do not have blood on their hands, if you look. It may be only a little, or it may be a lot. It may be the blood of others, or it may be the blood of their own. Or it may be both.
The best of mankind has come a long way from the primitive savage who would kill or enslave anyone weaker, simply because they could. The worst of mankind has not come all that far. And we all have the same thing in common, we all wear the same skin. Human.
History is a great subject for study, so that we may learn from it, hopefully to avoid the mistakes made by those who have gone before. But it works best when we remember and study ALL of it, both the good and the bad.
On a personal scale, how far back does yours go? Your father's generation? His fathers? His father's father's father's? Back to the beginning? where should one draw the line, if at all. Africa, Asia, Europe, even North and South America, all the places where humans live or have lived have been sites of evil and injustice done by one group on another, one individual on another. For myself, I answer for my own actions, and no other. I acknowledge that people of my social group have not always behaved in completely civilised manners. Even some people in my particular bloodline family may have done so, but I resent the blanket accusation of guilt from anyone who does not know me, and has never met me, and likely never will. I had nothing to do with things before my birth, as did most of us here, and I cannot see any logic to holding any of us to blame for the past.
warrior poet
New member
The purpose of learning history is to NOT make the mistakes of the past. Trying to "get even" or reverse the tide is just plain wrong. I am a Polish, Jewish, Gypsy, Slovak- American. Of all the things in my background, the only one that matters is AMERICAN. Is our nation perfect? NO. Is it racially fair everywhere from border to border? NO. Is it better than it was thrity years ago? H*** YEAH. Does it have the FRAMEWORK to continuously improve? MOST CERTAINLY.
We need to remember history. We need to NOT allow the mistakes of the past to be repeated. We NEED to heal, to grow, and to come together having learning the lessons of the past. E Plurabis Unum... From Many ONE. THAT IS AMERICA. Trying to divide us is un-American. We are a melting pot, a blend of cultures, and THAT is our strength. As the Constitution urges us, we need to "...form a more perfect union..."
As for Rev Wright, if he is TEACHING the past, so be it. Then he is well and good. But if he is USING the past as a means of creating division... then he wrong- both morally and 'devoid of the spirit of America.' I haven't personally heard his sermons, and I will reserve judgement until I do, but from the general consensus, he SEEMS to be hate-mongering. As someone of Jewish descent, I find that just a WEE bit scary.
We need to remember history. We need to NOT allow the mistakes of the past to be repeated. We NEED to heal, to grow, and to come together having learning the lessons of the past. E Plurabis Unum... From Many ONE. THAT IS AMERICA. Trying to divide us is un-American. We are a melting pot, a blend of cultures, and THAT is our strength. As the Constitution urges us, we need to "...form a more perfect union..."
As for Rev Wright, if he is TEACHING the past, so be it. Then he is well and good. But if he is USING the past as a means of creating division... then he wrong- both morally and 'devoid of the spirit of America.' I haven't personally heard his sermons, and I will reserve judgement until I do, but from the general consensus, he SEEMS to be hate-mongering. As someone of Jewish descent, I find that just a WEE bit scary.
If you find those comments scary you should read :
http://www.sbcbaptistpress.org/BPnews.asp?ID=27689
As first reported by the website BizzyBlog, Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago last July republished an editorial from The Los Angeles Times in which Mousa Abu Marzook, an official with the Palestinian group Hamas, defended the group's refusal to recognize Israel's right to exist. The United States officially views Hamas as a terrorist organization. A headline above the column in the bulletin read, "A Fresh View of the Palestinian Struggle."
http://www.sbcbaptistpress.org/BPnews.asp?ID=27689
As first reported by the website BizzyBlog, Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago last July republished an editorial from The Los Angeles Times in which Mousa Abu Marzook, an official with the Palestinian group Hamas, defended the group's refusal to recognize Israel's right to exist. The United States officially views Hamas as a terrorist organization. A headline above the column in the bulletin read, "A Fresh View of the Palestinian Struggle."
I never suggested holding anyone accountable for the sins of previous generations. However it's almost as wrong to simply ignore those atrocities because they haven't happened to anyone living today. The simple fact is that many of the problems facing certain classes of people today are directly related to many of the social injustices their ancestors faced.
And again, Wright grew up in a time where racism was not only the social norm but it was government-sponsored. It's understandable that his view of the world around him has been twisted by that experience. It still doesn't justify some of the things he said and it certainly doesn't justify how he said them but the point remains that his feelings are not baseless, they're not inane racist ramblings. They have history behind them, reason behind them.
He is all of 66 years old. He was born north of the Mason-Dixon line to an intact family with professional parents. (Strikingly similar to the Cosby show.) Admittedly, he was a young man during the post-war civil rights struggle, but he was insulated from any personel suffering in the Navy, and at Howard and U.C. Divinity.
He served his country and, it can reasonably be assumed, benefitted from his country's GI Bill to further his education. He was a child of privilege, a privileged student in the rarified world of academia, and the recipient of honors.
He was able to achieve all this because he was born into a country that allows one to go as far as his abilities take him. His life is an American success story -- it represents the boot-strap ethic and achievement.
As with most privileged liberals, the self-loathing is induced by guilt, not bad experience. The frenzied anger is not real. It is a carefully rehearsed act, designed to manipulate his followers and multiply his personal power and success.
Just wait 'till his NEXT book comes out!
I don't see how you could prove either way which one of you has experienced more racism - although the racism he experienced was also supported by the government, in some cases - and I've said REPEATEDLY, I'm not defending him. I'm not justifying his words or agreeing him.
I haven't said anything about any "typical white person" so why are you asking me?
I haven't said anything about any "typical white person" so why are you asking me?
The scene: A large auditorium filmed to appear as a stadium. The Rev. Purewhiteness is healing those who could afford the entrance fee.
A review of Rev. Wright's sermons reveals the trademarks of the P.T. Barnum school of marketing. He is Benny Hinn, except instead of selling miraculous cures for indefinable maladies, he is selling racial supremacy and entitlement.
Assistant: "Rev. Purewhiteness, this woman can't smell. She can't prepare for her family, tasty dinners anymore. They are on minimum income and eating out is ruining their budget."
Rev. Purewhiteness: "I say to you woman...(pushes her over), go forth and smell again!"
Assistant: (catching her before she actually gets injured) "Can you smell? Can you smell those flowers?"
Woman: "I...I...I can smell! I can smell again!"
Audience: "Hallelujah!"
Rev. Purewhiteness: "Praise be!! And don't forget those ATM donation machines in the lobby!"
Rev. Purewhiteness: "I say to you woman...(pushes her over), go forth and smell again!"
Assistant: (catching her before she actually gets injured) "Can you smell? Can you smell those flowers?"
Woman: "I...I...I can smell! I can smell again!"
Audience: "Hallelujah!"
Rev. Purewhiteness: "Praise be!! And don't forget those ATM donation machines in the lobby!"
A review of Rev. Wright's sermons reveals the trademarks of the P.T. Barnum school of marketing. He is Benny Hinn, except instead of selling miraculous cures for indefinable maladies, he is selling racial supremacy and entitlement.
