Not all liberals are anti-gun

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I'm liberal

there are folks that are liberal who believe in gun rights... I think it's part of what they want you to believe that devides folks... the whole thing about two folks running for one office makes it difficult.

one rule:

Professional Politician = Crook

As it is, the present conservative republican administration frightens me just as much as the potential future liberal one. Many basic human rights have been removed but because it hasn't effected us we don't care.

"When it's finally your time to get in the boxcar who do you think will be left to defend you?"
 
The sad part is...

Liberals have losers like...

John "Iscrewedmyowntroopstomakemyselflookgood" Kerry

Joe "Comb-over" Biden

Ted "ImaLushwhokilledawomanandmyrichfamilyhelpedmegetawywithit" Kennedy

Bill "Cowardwholiedtoagrandjuryandobstructedjustice" Clinton

And Howard "nowordscandescribehowstupidiameverytimeiopenmymouth" Dean

Diane Swinestein



...as their spokespeople...they'll always be behind.

Iraq war, GWOT, Valerie Plame BS aside...Conservatives, for the most part, are more about American values, and getting tough when they need to be


.
 
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Glad to see this has devolved from an interesting discussion on gun rights to a politician bashing fest. That's productive :rolleyes:.

Liberals are far from Progressives...
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Wrong. Try a definition before you insert that Texas sized boot in your craw. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism is a good one too.

Liberals believe in the Robin Hood principle... "Rob the rich and give to the poor." As long as it doesn't take anything from their coffers.
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Wrong again!!! The net flow of tax dollars in this country is FROM blue states TO red states. If you want my mailing address, I'd be happy to accept your rebate check. :D Feel free to send over my portion there, bud.

I guess I could post a list of general jerks and people of poor reputation on the conservative side, but that's not the *cough cough* Rove point of this *cough cough* Duke Cunningham *cough cough* Ollie North *cough cough* S+L bailouts discussion *cough cough* lie after lie about the GWOT *cough cough*.
The point is there are bad people on all sides of the political spectrum. If you seek to alienate the people on the other side of the spectrum who actually agree with your central cause over petty political differences, you only hurt yourself. Model25, frankly I don't care whether you trust me or not. I've made over 200 calls to elected officials this month on RKBA issues. I'm devoting my time and money to an online resource for CCW issues. I'm organizing with like minded folks locally to lobby for gun rights. What exactly are YOU doing to advance the cause? I'll stand on my record.
 
If you seek to alienate the people on the other side of the spectrum who actually agree with your central cause over petty political differences, you only hurt yourself.
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Socialism is not a "petty political difference". That you think it is shows very shallow political thinking, and an ignorance of history.
 
Regarding where Democrats fall on that political quiz...

I offer that they would NOT be LOWER left, but UPPER left, because the way they have been acting for decades strongly favors increased government control over people's lives: what they're free to own or use; what they may do on their own land; what they may do with their own money, and how much of it they get to keep...

Democrats surely do not edge toward libertarianism. Of course, neither do true Republicans...



-azurefly
 
Real debates about basic principle of government and liberty usually degenerate on gun lists as a segment of social conservatives just rant and rave. They offer insults and carry on about sex and abortion.

I'm sure the same goes on the far left lists, similar insults and incoherent tantrums. So what - it contributes nothing. Most of these folks are driven more by personality quirks than actual rational thought about the idea.

For every 'liberal' sleazebag - one can come up with a 'conservative' sleazebag. Do the actions of the individual really decide the validity of the philosophical principle? Is it relevant in the discussion?
 
The Second Amendment is very much at the base of these remarks.

It is also branched all through the subject as well as being rooted in it.

But liberals are always avoiding the subject by being oblique and obtuse!
Changing the subject is their forte...
Shifty buggers........... :D
 
Rebar,
WTF are you talking about? I was talking about the petty political differences between someone such as myself and a Republican CCW rights defender. Where was I defending socialism? Not once was I doing that. That you think so shows your shallow understanding of me and your inability to read.

Thanks to Glenn for saying more eloquently what I'm getting at.
 
I live in a fairly liberal town, I have known for years that many liberals are
"closet" gun owners, and closet homophobes. I don't see the need to "out" them, if they aren't hypocrites.
 
WTF are you talking about?
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What, you think this so-called "progressive" idea is some kind of new and unknown ideology?

Newsflash - it's 70 years old now, and what it entails is all too well known. It's proven, and well proven, to be socialism-light, socialism one thin salami slice at a time, until all our freedoms are gone.

"That you think so shows your shallow understanding of me and your inability to read", indeed. We know what your rediculous "progressive" nonsense is all about, you and your DUmmie crew think you can hoodwink gunowners into supporting you by pretending to support this one issue, in the meanwhile destroying the country with your stupid utopian socialist schemes.

What these so-called "progressives" really are, are reactionaries. They want to go back 70 years to FDR's "new deal" stupidity, to post-Vietnam left-wing anti-American anti-military majority, to a nanny-state that squashes our freedoms, all with the best of intentions of course.

I call them as I see them, and what I see is a transparent attempt to sow division and confusion within the RKBA community. The democratic party, the party of the gun grabbers, can only benefit from dissention among us.

So be honest, and call yourself a socialist reactionary, which is what "progressive" really means.
 
I'm not sure that post is worth dignifying with a response. I'm not a socialist. I don't have to answer to or apologize for any of the things you're slinging at me anymore than a rightwinger like yourself needs to apologize for Adolf Hitler's insanity. Drop the ad hominem attacks, they're without basis in fact and make you look like a narrow-minded moron. Until you can find ONE THING that I've posted or written on my blog that's in any way suggesting any of the things you're flinging out wildly, I politely suggest that you stop putting words in my mouth.

Which freedom am I trying to take away? What utopian scheme am I advocating?

I look forward to you trying to apologize for that turd you just posted. I'm here to help. I'm working toward more rights and more freedom for us on a very important issue. I'll pose to you the same question I posed to another earlier:
I've made over 200 calls to elected officials this month on RKBA issues. I'm devoting my time and money to an online resource for CCW issues. I'm organizing with like minded folks locally to lobby for gun rights. What exactly are YOU doing to advance the cause? I'll stand on my record.
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I don't have to apologize to you for anything. I'm one of the good guys, and you forget that at your own peril.
 
"The net flow of tax dollars in this country is FROM blue states TO red states."

I submit that there are no red or blue states. There are some blue cities, and then the rest of the country is sensible. Even a red/blue county map of California is mostly red.

Tim
 
Don't worry Andrew, I'm not gonna stop till they turn off the Internet. And when they do that...I'll build my own. :D Thanks for the support, time we gunowners get motivated and active. The anti's are outnumbered both in terms of people and dollars to spend. But they've been vocal and a vocal minority can take your rights if you're not careful.

I submit that there are no red or blue states. There are some blue cities, and then the rest of the country is sensible. Even a red/blue county map of California is mostly red.
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Yeah, but by population the split is pretty close. A lot of those red counties are pretty thinly populated. It's not about geography--your vote doesn't count less than my vote just because you live in the sticks and I live in the city. Each vote counts the same, so it's not about who has a larger piece of the map in square miles.

On that note, you do realize that the Senate Republican's majority represents less than 38% of the country's population? That's the genius of the founders, they balance that with a parliamentary body that's appointed by population size.
 
Hellmut

Model25, frankly I don't care whether you trust me or not. I've made over 200 calls to elected officials this month on RKBA issues. I'm devoting my time and money to an online resource for CCW issues. I'm organizing with like minded folks locally to lobby for gun rights. What exactly are YOU doing to advance the cause? I'll stand on my record.

Firstly, as I stated I'm a registered independent who's "infiltrating" the Dems to change them from within.

You have allready established how much trust anyone should put in you, are you "infiltrating" here too?

I am in my fifties and have fought most of my life to keep our gun rights. Club memberships and NRA memberships along with donations and going to all the public meetings as they came up.

I donated my time to young and old to promote guns in the best light possible, training in safety and just making sure people have fun as RO in events. Matter of fact I have a match tomorrow that I will be helping with.:D I have written letters and e-mails for years and years so don't think this has been just a small part of my life. I was carrying the ball before most of you knew there was a game.:eek:


You guys are going to make your own world you live in and join whatever side you want but if you look hard at what liberals say and do you will realize they are self defeating and are happy to drag you down with them.

Got nothing left to say cept leave me out of the rest of this conversation.

25
 
Seems you have a real issue with that word "infiltrate." Would you have felt better if I used a different word? The reality is the majority of the Dems don't see the world my way, so they're going to regard me as an outsider. That's fine with me, but I resent the implication that that choice of diction implies anything untoward or disrespectable about me. Frankly the way you took such an inference from a common idiomatic expression or figure of speech makes me suspect that your reading skills ain't up to par, bud. It was a lighthearted comment. You're overreacting. Most people I meet are happy to have an ally on "the other side." Consensus will beat divisiveness every time.
 
25

Got nothing left to say cept leave me out of the rest of this conversation.


Helmet
me suspect that your reading skills ain't up to par,

Seems you can't read but I will reply anyway.

I have never seen you and know nothing about you but the words you use here. Words mean something and your choice of words should reflect your personality and character. Every time you post you tell the world your thoughts and I just disagree with you and your ways.

From your post on science to you philosophy on how to win against liberals I can tell I don't need you for an ally. Nothing personal as you are taking this, I am just not siding up with your thinking as you and I are far apart on what we believe.:)

25
 
If you think you've got a better chance winning without me than with me, there's no helping you.

If you prefer faith to what you can prove empirically...you're probably not much of a scientist. :p To each his own...if you keep your religion to yourself, I'll keep mine to myself. :)
 
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