Non-Minuteman charged with holding 7 Mexicans at gunpoint

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I have been shot at and almost killed with a gun, mugged a few times, almost carjacked and had a brick smashed in my face in that incident, I have had two guns drawn on me and I thought I was going to die in that incident, I have witness a man brutally murdered by a man with a gun a few feet from me, and I agree with Shooting student more than I dissagree with him. I believe that I can do a citizens arrest but I know that I will face kidnapping charges if I am wrong. I know that if I kill someone doing a citizen arrest that I will face murder unless it was self defense. The guy should have called the cops for at the very least, his legal protection.
 
Wallew is just pissed off right now that any time a thread on illegal immigrants (read as "criminals") is started, some liberal wimp comes to their rescue, saying that this country needs them or it will crumble. As far as I'm concerned, when someone enters this country illegally, they are divested of ANY and ALL rights and courtesies to which they might otherwise be entitled. It's like a coat check at a fancy restaurant - you leave it at the door and get it back when you leave. To stick up for these criminal invaders is UNAMERICAN and is a tick or two shy of treachery. Thousands upon thousands of people have died to make this country the greatest place on earth; to just give it away to criminals is spitting on the graves of our fallen patriots.
Grow up!!
 
Maybe if George Bush had not made a back room deal to allow cheap laborers into our country with Presidente Fox;we would not be in such a sorry state along our own boarders. And didn't Bush cut funding for the hiring of additional boarded patrol personal recently?
 
70-101, this issue was started WAY before GW even came into office. He certainly hasn't helped it any, but it's ridiculous to point it at just one president.

It's tough and extremely frustrating, especially when you live and see illegals all the time. I laughed when I first moved to San Diego and saw the signs on the highway, imitating an illegal family running across the highway. Now I take it much more seriously.

The fact that people are willing to stop a truck should be a wake up call for our government. The fact that the Sgt. told another guy, a stranger at that, to hold them at gunpoint while he called the police should be another huge wake up call for our government, that people are fed up and going to take action into their own hands if the government wont!
 
But the point isn't just the fact that they are undocumented worker criminals here against the law and causing imeasurable harm to this country. The point also isn't that it is liberals or big buisness republicans that want the cheap labor force. The point is also that if ordinary people go around pulling guns at every hispanic looking group of people and then holding them against thier will, then someone innocent is going to get hurt soon. If the people he pulled over happened to be here legally or were from a 9th generation Hispanic American family then do you think he would be breaking the law then?

I agree with citizens arrest but you have to be ready to take the consequences if you are wrong. What he did a cop couldn't even do (from what I know so far). He has called attention to the illegal aliens though. Too bad that although he wasn't associated with MMP, many groups are going to use this incident to drown out the good things in the media that the MMP has done.
 
"Jim Gilchrist, an organizer of the Minuteman Project, denounced Haab's alleged acts. "His weapon should have been his cell phone," he said."


does that mean that if i call the police or immigration everytime i see an illegal that they will come arrest and deport them? yea right. they will NEVER do a thing if you do call. its illegal city here baby, they dont even bother to hide in the cracks anymore and scatter like cockroaches at first site of the authorities because they have nothing to fear because our government is stupid.

God bless those minutemen, but really and truly, they are just wasting thier time. once those mexicans get here, and if they are determined they WILL get here, the government lets them stay and infact caters to them, hell bush wants to reward them with his "guest worker" program. hey bush,look up the word AMNESTY in the dictionary.
 
I thought the MMP was a protest action. They are (IMO) doing a whole lot of good by bringing this issue to the forefront. The fact that they are doing it without having to pull a gun goes a loooooooonnng way towards making people realize that they are not kooks andreally just concerned citizens. What this sgt. did may make people associate brute vigilantism with the MMP.

Don't get me wrong I gotta respect the guy a lot for trying but he did it wrong in my book. The phone call may be just one of the things he could have done different. Threatening (if he really did) their lives verbally was not a good move for one thing.
 
I thought the MMP was a protest action
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the behemouth federal government that currently occupies the US regards 'protest action' as the buzzing of flies. why do you think they let the MM do this to begin with?
They are (IMO) doing a whole lot of good by bringing this issue to the forefront
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and that is all that will happen. a little publicity here, a little publicity there, while the US as it was founded 200 years ago slowly fades into history.

bye bye
 
Yeah but Redhawk it could lead to a public outcry against this current situation and might get some action now or after the next election. Never underestimate a massive grass roots movement. Even the moderate on CNN, Lou Dobbs is on the MMP guys side. More people that don't listen to just Hannity, O'reilly, or Rush will start to take our side on this issue. After all, movements have to start somewhere and if MMP can stay as noble as they have been, then the public will sway very quickly (IMO).
 
novus collectus,

if i had a dollar for every time i have heard 'it will get better after the next election' i would be retired, and i'm only 28!

it could lead to a public outcry against this current situation
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have i missed something here? isn't the MMP a public outry? aren't all the polls that say many americans are against illegal immigration public outcry? aren't many of the opinions on this board public outcry? the public outcry is so loud i can't hear anything else over it! Heck, when was the last time we talked about the war in iraq?

your idealism is admirable, but a cursory look at history shows that the only 'massive grass roots movement' that any government truly listens to is why we have the 2nd amendment.

were the American Revolutionaries not noble because they sought violence instead of 'protest action'?
 
your idealism is admirable, but a cursory look at history shows that the only 'massive grass roots movement' that any government truly listens to is why we have the 2nd amendment.
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How about the Anti Saloon League? Their grass roots campaign was so active that even though they were in the minority, they got the 18th amendment passed. Took me two minutes to find one grass roots instance to reference. Want me to find more?????

The MMP is the beginning of an outcry. A true outcry or a grassroots movement will get action. After all, even you mentioned that the majority of Americans agree that illegal migration should be stopped, so it would be easier to accomplish than the 20 or so years it took for phibition via the Volstead (Hobbs?) Act to get into the constitution.

The American revolutionaries were just that, revolutionaries. They gained independence for us all by overthrowing the system governing them. Is that what you are suggesting? To totally restart are system? How is that any different from what the illegals are doing right now? Remember that violence was the LAST course of action that they HAD to use. They spent years protesting first (remember the Boston Tea Party?).

Your idealism is admirable too but it doesn't appear to me that you have thought of the consequences of using violence in this situation. It will accomplish much much less than a gr. movement and may even have a reversing effect. Once you start a war you better win, or you will lose more than you had in the beggining (an expression).
 
novus collectus,

please don't get me wrong, i am in no way shape or form advocating any type of violence. i am simply pointing out what i have learned from history.

i'm still a young one so maybe one of the more long lived and wise members of this board can chime in here, but just how long has the southern border been open? how long have police officers in LA been unable and unwilling to arrest known illegal gang members because of politics? how long have thousands upon thousands of people crossed the border from Mexico into US unchecked and unchallenged?

Remember that violence was the LAST course of action that they HAD to use. They spent years protesting first
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it seems that the man who is the subject of this thread has reached his last course of action, as have the MMP, and Wallew (no offense man). i think this has been going on for far to long and neither 'public outcry' nor 'protest action' have had any effect.

and the Anti Saloon League? they must have had REALLY deep pockets.
 
Scenario could go like this. Sgt. Haab speaks Spanish. He hears latinos talking of a terrorist act. He acts as fast and as brutal as possible to stop a group of terrorists who outnumber him. He has enough command presence to rcruit civilian assistance in securing/detaining terrorists. He even has a BUG to arm his recruit. Sgt. Haab believes he will be commended for capturing a group of terrorists. He is instead himself detained and imprisoned by civilian authorities for assaulting illegal economic terrorists. There is something inversely wrong here. I truly believe that legal resident aliens and citizens are entitled to human rights. ONLY citizens are entitled to constitutional protections. I would probably have backed Sgt. Haab and joined his action. I do not think an illegal alien, economic terrorist can be protected by US laws. Basic human rights and enemy combatants status only. Our government IS trying to have it both ways. What if the illegals had been al queda and Arabic? The last I knew, we were holding some prisoner with no charges. Mexicans get a free pass? PLEASE!
 
I see where you're coming from and I understand the sgt's frustration, but I still think that a gr.movement will work. The public attention and cry's for action have also increased with the increase of illegal immigrants (although we agree that it is not enough so far). The MMP has done more to embarrass congress and the White House into action in the near future (hopefully) than anything else lately (MHO).

The Anti Saloon League didn't need deep pockets. They used parishoners' of thousands of churches money. They had many ministers spread their word in small and large towns all across America. Long before they got the fed government to pass the amendment, they had 25% of the population living in dry areas because of their gr. activities.

btw I am young and inexperienced as well (35). I would like to hear some life experienced members opinions too.
 
novus, i do hope you are right and a grass roots movement can turn this thing around. i just feel that there is more at stake here than a reduction in alcohol sales. we are talking major economic stuff here. the powers that be obviously don't want this to stop or it would.

plus i'm a pessimist.
 
He is instead himself detained and imprisoned by civilian authorities for assaulting illegal economic terrorists.
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Moving to another country for work, or just doing any business at all that is harmful to the US economy, cannot be considered an act of war. This is the same argument Ward Churchill makes-The 9-11 victims were economically terrorizing the middle east.

IMO, if you're going to treat people as invaders, they'd better be combatants as in missile carrying, bomb-detonating, hijacker types. If you start playing with that distinction, then all you will end up doing is justifying people like Osama bin Laden. Then they will kill and threaten civillians claiming that to only be "Defending their home economies" from "the economic meat grinder that is American corporate imperialism."
 
if you're going to treat people as invaders, they'd better be combatants as in missile carrying, bomb-detonating, hijacker types
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violent frontal war is not the war of choice if you operate with limited resources, especially if the country you intend to war against has military superiority. there are many ways to fight a war without even firing a shot. take the Cold War, for example, no shots fired there. almost, but we're not playing horseshoes here.

in the 21st century, economic war is all the rage. a nation's entire economy can be destroyed with the devaluation of a currency, the dumping of bonds, and buyout of privately owned stock. the balance is a razors edge.

an over supply of migrant workers may be all it takes to tip the scales.

are we in the midst of an economic war? i say yes. i'm sure some would agree. the balance of power has rested in the arms of the US for some time now, and nothing lasts forever. Who is our enemy in this war? hard to say, but i am leary of China's intentions as it grows as an economic and military power.

do we treat illegal immigrants as enemy combatants? the case could be made, not by me mind you. i myself prefer to practice 'situational awareness'.

Mr Haab however chose to take military action, as he was trained to do. can ya really blame him?
 
Sorry. NO way! I see illegals as enemy combatants, fifth columnists, economic terrorists, a drain on our government coffers and I feel all illegals should be treated with the same respect as any other terrorist. We are a nation at war. Any invasion is an act of aggression.
 
redhawk41,

Yes. The military trains people to obey civillian law, and it also teaches them to respect the distinction between civilians and combatants.

Economic "warfare" may a lot of things, but if it justifies killing, then there's no principled way for you guys to explain how Osama Bin Laden was NOT justified in his attack on the World Trade Center.

If any economically damaging entry is an "invasion" and aggressive, then the US would have to be the most aggressive, violent state in the history of the world. There are US products and businesses all over the world, and US businesses are ruthless competitors.

Does that justify attacking US economic assets?
 
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