Non-Minuteman charged with holding 7 Mexicans at gunpoint

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TheeBadOne

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PHOENIX - An Army reservist was arrested on charges of holding seven Mexicans at gunpoint at a rest stop in southern Arizona, where civilian efforts to watch for illegal immigrants have raised fears of vigilante violence.
Sgt. Patrick Haab, 24, was apparently acting alone and not involved with the Minuteman Project, which has organized volunteers for a monthlong effort to watch for immigrants and drug smugglers along the border.

Officials said Haab used his vehicle to stop the seven men from driving away from an interstate rest stop Sunday, then ordered them to lie on the ground or be shot.

He was being held on seven counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon.

"Even law enforcement has to have probable cause before taking people out of their cars and telling them to lie on the ground. . . . He threatened to kill them," Sheriff Joe Arpaio said. "He did not have the right to do what he did. How did he know they were illegal aliens?"

Haab had returned from active military duty in Iraq last October and had moved to Arizona four months ago. He was being held at the Maricopa County jail and declined requests for an interview by the Arizona Republic.

Deputies said Haab ordered another driver to hold a gun on the men while he called police. The second driver left before deputies and the Border Patrol arrived, and authorities are trying to locate him.

The undocumented immigrants were being held by the Border Patrol in Yuma.

Jim Gilchrist, an organizer of the Minuteman Project, denounced Haab's alleged acts. "His weapon should have been his cell phone," he said.

The Border Patrol has said the civilian projects could interfere with its own efforts to secure the border, and the government of Mexico has said it would monitor the projects out of concern that Mexican citizens might be abused.

Arizona is considered the most vulnerable stretch of the 2,000-mile U.S.-Mexico border. Of the 1.1 million illegal immigrants caught by the Border Patrol last year, more than half crossed the border into Arizona.

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/breaking/041305_nonminuteman_held.php
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Is this a crime, or not? (or should/shouldn't)
 
while I'm as incensed as most about the problem with illegal aliens (undocumented immigrants my eye), drawing a gun should be only in self defense unless you are authorized to arrest those you are confronting and have reason to believe they are dangerous. I have to agree with Jim Gilchrist in this article, they should have called the border patrol or other law enforcement and not confronted them as they did.
 
In a way, doesn't he have that authority? I mean, you take an oath to protect the USA and to repeal any invasions(sp) upon American soil, isn't this what he was doing?

Wayne
 
the government of Mexico has said it would monitor the projects out of concern that Mexican citizens might be abused
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HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

that must be why so many mexicans are fleeing to the US, because the mexican government is overbearing in its concern for her citizens.
 
Interesting that the first boo-boo comes from someone UNASSOCIATED with the MMP. How will der media will play it?
 
I agree with FallenPhoenix.

Imagine if this had been someone who knew of a neighbor that was drawing welfare checks through fraud. Would he have the right to go hold the welfare-cheater at gunpoint, take the check out of his hand, and deliver him to police?

If not even police can use deadly force only for this, then definitely no one else should.
 
FP & SIS,

From your posts, it obvious that you need to LEAVE the USA and move to Canada, or England or Australia or France or some other place where the socialistic government coddles you from cradle to grave.

THAT IS NOT WHAT THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON, regardless of the worthless education that you recieved that says otherwise.

We are not now, nor have we ever been a SOCIALISTIC GOVERNMENT STATE. Perhaps you would be HAPPIER IF YOU LIVED IN ONE OF THOSE, as that's what you CONSISTENTLY profess.

SOCIALISM IS A COMPLETE AN UTTER FAILURE. Go peddle your ideas some place else.

PLEASE. If not, then the ONLY HOPE I SEE FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU is a face to face meeting with the criminal element in this country. Perhaps a good beating from some criminal trying to rob you who finds you are too slow giving up your money might change your mind. Or perhaps your mother, wife or daughter raped by some low life just getting his kicks???

And I won't be surprised if they 'catch' the other motorist listed in the article that they charge him also. When it becomes a CRIME to STOP CRIMINALS IN THEIR TRACKS DURING THE COMISSION OF A CRIME, REGARDLESS THE MEANS, this country is done.

So, should the gun shop who loaned the LAPD long arms to take down those two bank robbing criminals wearing BODY ARMOR been charged with 'aiding and abetting' criminal behavior???

Even though the cops didn't actually get to use those weapons, they still gave the police 'the ability' to kill a criminal in the comission of a crime. SHOULD THEY BE ARRESTED AND CHARGED ALSO???
 
Agree with Jim Gilchrist and FallenPhoenix.
Wallew - What does your post have to do with an illegal arrest attempt? Not getting the connection. Is this your view of Jim Gilchrist, the person FallenPhoenix is agreeing with?
 
IF CITIZENS STOPPING CRIMINALS IN THE COMMISSION OF A CRIME BECOMES A CRIME, THEN WE HAVE JUST TURNED THIS COUNTRY OVER TO THE CRIMINALS.

We might as well all live in England, WHERE IT IS A CRIME to stop someone from breaking into your home, robbing you blind and then beating you within an inch of your life.

IF THAT'S WHERE YOU THINK THIS COUNTRY NEEDS TO BE HEADED, YOU NEED TO LEAVE AND LET THOSE OF US WHO ARE NOT AFRAID OF CRIMINALS (in my mind that INCLUDES any politician or police officer who agrees with this) TAKE CARE OF THIS PROBLEM.

Because believe me when I say this, WE WILL TAKE CARE OF IT. Not in the namby pamby way all you socialists want, but the problem will be resolved immediately.
 
they should have called the border patrol or other law enforcement
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if you knew the 'appropriate authorities' would do nothing, would you still call them?

for example, your house is being robbed. if you KNEW that the police would not do anything, would you still call them?
 
Wallew,

I think you need to have yourself a nice glass of iced tea and calm down. The fact that I disagree with private joes using deadly force to detain a bunch of immigrants doesn't mean I'm uneducated. It especially does not mean that my education is "worthless" that I disagree with you.

How about you and I agree to stick to the content of what each other is saying, instead of writing these tirades about where I should go, what I should do, etc?

I'm talking about quotes like this:
PLEASE. If not, then the ONLY HOPE I SEE FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU is a face to face meeting with the criminal element in this country. Perhaps a good beating from some criminal trying to rob you who finds you are too slow giving up your money might change your mind. Or perhaps your mother, wife or daughter raped by some low life just getting his kicks???
Click to expand...

You have no idea what I know or have seen. I think you need to get over this idea that everyone with any experience is going to agree with you.
 
Two things, one I read this article to mean that Patrick Haab was not an active duty serviceman, I may be in error here as it does state his rank and does not specify whether he is home on leave or between deployment, etc. Second, in the link provided I see an interpretation of the constitution, and and when summoned by a law enforcement officer, a private person became a temporary member of the police department stood out in a brief overview of what I believe you wanted to point out to me. I also read Citizens were expected to be armed and equipped to chase suspects on foot, on horse, or with wagon whenever summoned. And when called upon to enforce the laws of the state, citizens were to respond "not faintly and with lagging steps, but honestly and bravely and with whatever implamints and facilities [were] convenient and at hand.". But does this have any bearing in modern society? Whether right or wrong, things have changed since the time when the Constitution was written. I will maintain that I do not believe a civilian should take the law into his own hands unless someone will die or be injured because of his inaction.
 
SIS,
You have no idea what I know or have seen. I think you need to get over this idea that everyone with any experience is going to agree with you.
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Let's see, you are mid twenties, perhaps as old as thirty. You went through the PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEM. You ACTUALLY believed what you were taught by your teachers who had an agenda to dumb down America.

And you have NO EXPERIENCES that I would agree with.

Have you ever been shot? SHOT AT? Been mugged? Has your wife barely escaped a rape, then go get her purple belt in karate? Learned to fire her 4" comped Taurus in .357 better than I can?

Have your CCW? Been assaulted by two MEXICAN PUNK KIDS who ran like the children they were, after confronting me with their hand in their gym bag like it was a gun, telling me to 'give me your wallet'? ALL THEY GOT was my .45 ACP DERRINGER and a statement that their hand better come out empty or they were going to have a bad day?

Been almost run off the road by some pindejo who thought his Monte was a tank against my Suburban. And would NOT stop trying to swerve into me until I showed him the business end of my COLT COMMANDER?

Have one of your riding buddies (female) killed in Killeen at the Luby's cafeteria? The guy walked right up to her and shot her in the back of the head. Normally she carried, but was out on a ride with a female friend that was also shot, but not killed...

Please, go get SOME EXPERIENCE, then we MIGHT have something to talk about.
 
what is it with the word illegal that you guys don't understand????????????? illegal= crime= crimminal, maybe we would'nt have had this problem if the cops, BP, whoever, were doing there jobs, like the tax paid servants they are...hmmmm
 
Wallew,

LOL, uh, why are you asking for my experience if I have "No experience you would agree with"? How can you possibly say that without knowing me?

Let me start out with this: You being almost robbed by a couple of Mexican kids doesn't make you an authority on immigration issues. Neither does having your wife be attacked make you an authority on immigration.

Now for me:

I'm willing to bet my education, in terms of value and prestige, is miles ahead of whatever is under your belt. It should suffice to say that a year of it costs more than what most people make in that same year. I don't brag about about it on the internet though, and I don't waste my time asking about other people's EXPERIENCE for a discussion. What you have on the internet is text on a page. If you can't justify it with facts that are accessible to everyone (hint: your experience isn't public, and can't be checked out by others), then you're wasting your fingertips typing it out. What you are doing, Wallew, is disagreeing based on your own claim to have "personal experience" vastly beyond mine. Why you would do this when you don't know what my personal experience is puzzles me, but in any case I hope this point will make it clear to you why that is meaningless.

Personally, I've seen eight countries (only two of those in Europe) and the whole of the united states in my time, and I've only had criminal attempts made on me twice: both times by white, blonde haired offenders in America. Does that give me a basis for saying that police should be more suspicious of whites, or that european immigrants ought to be kicked out because people who are white commit crimes???? No. Not even close. Why does the fact that you've had Mexicans attack you mean we ought to shoot illegal immigrants on sight!?

I pray, Wallew, that in your next post, we'll be able to have a reasonable discussion about the ISSUE of people using their guns on immigrants, instead of me having to respond to your groundless claims of experience.
 
i agree with both fallenphoenix and shootinstudent...

and wallew what does shootinstudents experience have anything to do with the topic on hand? :confused:

what does you being robbed having anything to do with the topic on hand? :confused:

you need to learn how to carry on a comphrehensive and coherent dicussion or keep your mouth shut... ;)

Chad
 
now that we have that cleared up back to the topic.

even though in my mind i would like to do what this guy does i have a bit more sense than that...

its obviously illegal anyone who denies that and applauds this man....i have to wonder about.

so because are current government is inept at securing the borders were suppose to shoot anyone who crosses them?....

I pray i dont come across your lunatic ass with a gun... :eek:

Chad
 
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