No habla
- Thread starter WINSTON THE WOLF
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But we'd be wearing these! http://www.utilikilts.com/?page_id=10 I can't link directly to the mockumentary but they are listed on the right. Kilt check is good.
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I have the solution for the immigration problem. First, let's define the problem...
1) Americans are worried about the economy, with so much money getting shipped out of the country to Mexico.
2) Americans are worried about freeloaders who are not American citizens getting American privileges such as unemployment insurance, Social Security, and welfare checks.
3) Americans do not want a bunch of scofflaws as neighbors; we want the laws to mean something and be enforced.
We've been repeatedly assured that the problem is not racism, and that everyone would welcome these folks -- at least the law abiding ones -- with open arms if only it weren't for the economic cost of having them sending their paychecks out of the country while taking advantage of American government hand outs.
So let's solve it.
I propose that we simply purchase the entire country of Mexico, in its entirety. The small southernmost border of Mexico is considerably more defensible than the gigantic southernmost border of the current US. No more scofflaws in the country.
All paychecks would be taxed at current rates, no matter where the wage-earner was sending the money.
All new citizens would receive the same access to services they get now, only we'd be able to enforce the rules equitably with none of the under the table stuff we've got going on now.
The economy would get a huge shot in the arm from acquiring all the wonderful natural resources south of our current borders, too.
pax
1) Americans are worried about the economy, with so much money getting shipped out of the country to Mexico.
2) Americans are worried about freeloaders who are not American citizens getting American privileges such as unemployment insurance, Social Security, and welfare checks.
3) Americans do not want a bunch of scofflaws as neighbors; we want the laws to mean something and be enforced.
We've been repeatedly assured that the problem is not racism, and that everyone would welcome these folks -- at least the law abiding ones -- with open arms if only it weren't for the economic cost of having them sending their paychecks out of the country while taking advantage of American government hand outs.
So let's solve it.
I propose that we simply purchase the entire country of Mexico, in its entirety. The small southernmost border of Mexico is considerably more defensible than the gigantic southernmost border of the current US. No more scofflaws in the country.
All paychecks would be taxed at current rates, no matter where the wage-earner was sending the money.
All new citizens would receive the same access to services they get now, only we'd be able to enforce the rules equitably with none of the under the table stuff we've got going on now.
The economy would get a huge shot in the arm from acquiring all the wonderful natural resources south of our current borders, too.
pax
Wildalaska
Moderator
That would be great...an entire North American nation made up of US, Canada and mexico, under the US constition.!!!
WildimforitAlaska ™
WildimforitAlaska ™
cool hand luke 22:36
New member
True, but part of national sovereignty is the right of a nation to set its immigration rules as it sees fit. The law is the law.
Immigrants to the USA from Ireland in the 1840+ timeframe were fleeing starvation, and poverty that'd make the average Mexican of the 1840's look like a king. And yes, I mean that seriously. Travelers through Ireland in that time expressed astonishment at the poverty of the Irish peasants, poverty unlike they had seen anywhere else. The vast majority of illegals in the US today are not fleeing starvation or crushing poverty. They’re here because they can make good money for the most part.
True, but 10-20,000 Irish illegals are not comparable to 18-20 million mainly Hispanic, mainly Mexican, illegals in their effect on our country. For example, 40% of the inmates in our prisons for serious and violent crime are illegal aliens, most Hispanic, most from Mexico. It’s astonishing to think that about 20-25% of the adult male population of Mexico now lives illegally in the USA. And, the Irish economy has been booming for the past 15 years now, most Irish illegals in the USA don't stay very long before going home.
Sure, when did the US government begin the Welfare, AFDC, WIC and Food Stamp programs? Wasn’t it about 1964 under LBJ? What comparable government assistance programs were available to the Irish in the US in 1844? (Hint: virtually none).
And, look to the numerous Catholic affiliated universities, hospitals, poor houses, and orphanages founded by the Irish here in the US in the 1840-1920 time frame.
And the hospital, university, orphanage, etc. founded by Mexican or other Hispanic illegals would be...?
I don't have to be a mind reader to talk to my friends and relatives who march in the St. Patrick's Day parades in Boston, Philadelphia, or New York, or to read books and articles about the Irish Americans.
Now give examples of Irish Americans who display the Irish tri-color because their first allegiance is to Ireland and not the US.
The race card is now thrown. :barf:
And, sorry, but you're using straw man argument there. I never said anything remotely similar to what you assert. I never said all illegal aliens have a shared philosophy or a common ideal. I couldn't care any less if they do or don’t.
I only said that they are breaking the law by being here, are using resources that they are not paying for in taxes, and are generally having a very detrimental effect on our quality of life. I've seen estimates where my Federal and State taxes are about $2000 per year higher than they would otherwise be if not for the costs associated with illegal aliens. I want that money back for my own family. I need it in fact. I resent it being taken from me to provide services to lawbreakers who have no business being in this country. I couldn’t care any less about their race. And again, Hispanics and Mexicans are of many races. There are White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and etc. Hispanics and Mexicans just as with Americans or Canadians.
What is so hard to understand about wanting people to obey our immigration laws? There is nothing racist about that idea.
cool hand luke 22:36
New member
Wrong, our country is based on assimilating legal immigrants into a common culture with a common language, and instilling in them a commonly held respect for the law and other national institutions.
I'm not disputing that but to make the comparison as if they were both facing the same situation is asinine.
That's not true at all. How can you claim that the poverty in Ireland was worse than the poverty in Mexico today?
Hey, if they had the money to get on a boat guess they weren't that poor.
Yet it doesn't change the fact that there are still illegal Irish immigrants here. If it's just a numbers game then why are you ignoring the millions of LEGAL Mexican immigrants that McCain's message was actually geared towards?
Wait wait...you think it's somehow an argument to compare the number of institutions founded by legal Irish immigrants to the number of ones founded by illegal Mexican ones?
Welfare, AFDC, WIC and Food Stamp programs are not widely available to illegals.
So your friends are representative of the entire Irish community in America? And your mind reading skills must be honed nicely if you're also reading the minds of the entire Mexican community in America. Bravo.
Hey, I can claim to have a hundred Mexican friends that want to be American as much as the Irish on the internet. It's too bad little anecdotes don't mean jack squat.
You threw the race card.
you said:
The very nature of your list in your post did just that.
No, you said much more than that. You lumped the entire group into one by making comparisons between Irish immigrants and Mexican immigrants.
They're paying sales taxes, they're paying property taxes, they're even paying income taxes in many cases yet unable to draw many of the benefits. I certainly don't agree with stealing SSNs to do so but the point remains that many of them do pay taxes.
There are plenty of things having a detrimental effect on the quality of life in this country and Mexicans are barely a drop in the bucket.
I want people to obey immigration laws as well, but your initial post making the comparison - and throwing down the race card yourself - wasn't about obeying immigration laws. It was about implying that it's ok to celebrate St Patrick's Day because Irish immigrants are good but not ok to celebrate Cinco de Mayo because Mexican immigrants are bad.
That "common culture" only exists because it's a mix of other cultures. The "American culture" is not a static one because no culture is. This culture, like every other that has ever existed and will ever exist, continues to evolve.
But all you did was simply enforce what I said. This country is based on immigration and the post I was replying to had little to do with illegal immigration, rather a complaint that people from another country were coming here en masse.
I have no problem with that. I don't care if hispanics are the majority population. There's nothing wrong with that. Of course the culture will change because of it but the culture would also change if whites retained the majority.
Culture always changes.
[QUOTEWelfare, AFDC, WIC and Food Stamp programs are not widely available to illegals.[/QUOTE]
You live in a dream world.
How do you think illegals survive on slave labor wages provided
by corrupt employers,we the taxpayer subsidize their pay. Illegal uncontrolled immigrations hurts
this county and I could careless where they come from.
You live in a dream world.
How do you think illegals survive on slave labor wages providedby corrupt employers,we the taxpayer subsidize their pay. Illegal uncontrolled immigrations hurts
this county and I could careless where they come from.
WINSTON THE WOLF
Moderator
That's what people were saying in Germany in 1999 and 2000. In 1999. I had to have my pass port stamped every 3 months, in early 2000. They stopped stamping pass ports and the limit you could stay was gone it was still on the books but they didn't really check it anymore. (European union open boarders policy) also before the European union. Germany had one of the strongest economy’s. But people were talking about how this new money was being talked about and that all the countries that accepted this new currency and used this new currency had to have the same money value. I saw this first hand. How the German DM was falling. back then It was almost 2 DM to 1 USD.
I'm about as far as you can get from being a Bible thumper, but that doesn't mean there isn't some wisdom in it.
Remember the story of the Tower of Babel?
English should be the national language if for no other reason because it is vastly more efficient that way.
So, I assume you will be happy with a Spanish speaking culture in 100 years?
Remember the story of the Tower of Babel?
English should be the national language if for no other reason because it is vastly more efficient that way.
So, I assume you will be happy with a Spanish speaking culture in 100 years?
Oh, no particular reason if you want to have to translate many decades of archived research, literature etc. into something the masses can read.
Not to mention that practically all technological breakthroughs are in English by English speaking people. Feel free to name a few in the past 50 years that weren't and I'll name you 10 to 1 that were.
Cool, we could have a huge, permanent Spanish speaking underclass.
There's plenty of archived research and literature in spanish. Big deal.
Why would it have to be translated? You think that just because a majority would speak spanish that the english language would simply be forgotten?
Not true, the english language has only existed for 1500 years and technological breakthroughs reach back tens of thousands of years.
it's quite convenient for you when you move the end zone two feet from the line of scrimmage.
Besides, there is nothing preventing a spanish speaking population from learning english or an english speaking population from learning spanish. Nor does it mean a damn thing for technological breakthroughs to be in a particular language because technology does not care about language or culture. That's the beauty of it; it can always be adapted to serve the present needs.
The problem you pose isn't really a problem at all. A mild inconvenience at worst but at best an opportunity to have a truly bi-lingual or even tri-lingual society.
Ah, so now we get to the real crux of the issue.
Are you assuming that a century from now the spanish speaking population would still be an underclass?
The first colonizers of the western half of this country were primarily an english speaking underclass. What's more appealing about them than the spanish speaking ones?
LOL. As usual you take some politically correct position which has little to do with the hard reality and facts at hand. The world is not what you think it ought to be, learn to deal with it the way it is.
Will Latinos overcome the liabilities of not being able to speak English? Maybe, probably not. But if they do, how many more generations will it take?
If you look at the Mexicans that are successful locally they speak English quite well. And they have a lot of non English speaking Mexicans working for them for low wages.
What magical transformation do you think is going to change that any time soon? Make a list of the jobs you can do in this country and not speak English. What do they Pay?
Also, if the language has nothing to do with technological breakthroughs then English speakers must simply be smarter, and your historical comparison is meaningless since 90% of all technology is less than 50 years old.
Will Latinos overcome the liabilities of not being able to speak English? Maybe, probably not. But if they do, how many more generations will it take?
If you look at the Mexicans that are successful locally they speak English quite well. And they have a lot of non English speaking Mexicans working for them for low wages.
What magical transformation do you think is going to change that any time soon? Make a list of the jobs you can do in this country and not speak English. What do they Pay?
Also, if the language has nothing to do with technological breakthroughs then English speakers must simply be smarter, and your historical comparison is meaningless since 90% of all technology is less than 50 years old.
The Tourist
Moderator
At the end of the day, don't you think this is more of a debate on how Americans handle any social issue?
If 39 million foreign nationals snuck/crawled/flew into any other country than the USA, there would be major upheavals. In fact, parts of Europe are dealing with the migration of Arabs.
When any part of your postulate begins with the adjective "illegal," then I don't think you have an argument at all--whether they speak Spanish or not.
They don't have the necessary status to be here, hence their condition, their needs, and their inability to communcate are not my problem.
If you doubt that, there's a new cable program which centers on the idea of Americans being arrested in foreign countries. Watch how our people will be treated. A minor issue like a "language barrier" will be nothing.
If 39 million foreign nationals snuck/crawled/flew into any other country than the USA, there would be major upheavals. In fact, parts of Europe are dealing with the migration of Arabs.
When any part of your postulate begins with the adjective "illegal," then I don't think you have an argument at all--whether they speak Spanish or not.
They don't have the necessary status to be here, hence their condition, their needs, and their inability to communcate are not my problem.
If you doubt that, there's a new cable program which centers on the idea of Americans being arrested in foreign countries. Watch how our people will be treated. A minor issue like a "language barrier" will be nothing.
I could say the same to you.
What exactly gives you cause to say "probably not"? What do you know about latinos that makes them different from the rest of the human race?
Which refutes your previous point entirely.
Seems you're not getting the point. You brought up the idea of a spanish speaking population in 100 years. Now you want to twist the argument to something else?
If you actually think that the only two variables for a technological breakthrough are language and intelligence then I question what you even define as "technology".
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