Looks like tear gas is one way out of this situation.
https://twitter.com/livesmattershow/status/1297782565038891009?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
https://twitter.com/livesmattershow/status/1297782565038891009?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
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"No good answer" hypothetical road block
- Thread starter HiBC
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Its possible a large cannister of bear spray would provide a non lethal option to try.
Of course, a very real problem would be sticking your arm holding the bear spray out of your open window. Odds are good it would be taken away from you,and sprayed into your face,And your elbow may get broken.
Maybe a couple cannisters mounted behind your grille that could be activated from inside the buttoned up car?
Of course, a very real problem would be sticking your arm holding the bear spray out of your open window. Odds are good it would be taken away from you,and sprayed into your face,And your elbow may get broken.
Maybe a couple cannisters mounted behind your grille that could be activated from inside the buttoned up car?
Aguila Blanca
Staff
IIRC, bear spray comes out pretty much as a stream, not a fog, so without a means of directing (if not "aiming") it, I don't think it would be of much use.
Pepper sprays come in fog or stream patterns, or gel. The fog pattern units are only good at close range, and if you are down-wind of the attacker you're just as likely to incapacitate yourself as the assailant. Stream has a longer range but a much narrower pattern, and is still somewhat susceptible to wind.
Pepper sprays come in fog or stream patterns, or gel. The fog pattern units are only good at close range, and if you are down-wind of the attacker you're just as likely to incapacitate yourself as the assailant. Stream has a longer range but a much narrower pattern, and is still somewhat susceptible to wind.
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
What’s the cook off time on a CS/CN/Pepper gas grenade? Seems like an ideal situation to have it fed back to you?
In many videos, it seems that many of the less-peaceful peaceful protesters come armed with bear spray or similar. I'd expect that if your window gets cracked, you might have to deal with a chemical irritant. "Just Punching It" might put you into a street lamp.
Best to leave gaps at lights and be ready to turn to avoid hostile foot traffic before you get stopped.
If you are stopped, every situation will be different. Lot's to consider here.
Best to leave gaps at lights and be ready to turn to avoid hostile foot traffic before you get stopped.
If you are stopped, every situation will be different. Lot's to consider here.
I have found staying home works excedingly well! Cosco insists on masks, and temp. check, also Just, Traders, and Walmart. Picked up a 20 lb Sack of basmatie rice a month ago at Cosco. Good for at least 2 years. We switched years ago from Cows milk to Soy Milk. Buy that two boxes of twelve at a time, it does not require refrigerating. Sits away in the living room. Not quite vegans, but cut back a lot on meat products.
Will be glad when dining in at Restaurants starts up again!
Leave good vehicle spacing when out and about, we are just an old pair old pair of Grandparents, don't go out late anymore. Never go out without my Glock 19. Yes I shoot it well, 147g Federal HST Hollow Points is my flavor of the month. Double-tap per application seems like the way to go (at least) Pointed pistols at people on occasion, 1 or 2 lbs of pressure is all I have put onto the trigger. As I carry a pair of stents on a heart artery, if I do get into use of force incident, my next new friends will be paramedics!
Off to heart ward. "I did not reload Officers, there is one in the breach, but don't lose it!"
Have a couple more, just in case.
Will be glad when dining in at Restaurants starts up again!
Leave good vehicle spacing when out and about, we are just an old pair old pair of Grandparents, don't go out late anymore. Never go out without my Glock 19. Yes I shoot it well, 147g Federal HST Hollow Points is my flavor of the month. Double-tap per application seems like the way to go (at least) Pointed pistols at people on occasion, 1 or 2 lbs of pressure is all I have put onto the trigger. As I carry a pair of stents on a heart artery, if I do get into use of force incident, my next new friends will be paramedics!
Off to heart ward. "I did not reload Officers, there is one in the breach, but don't lose it!"
Have a couple more, just in case.
> how do I prove the intent
Dashcam! At the very least, one with a second, rear-facing camera. There are ones under $300 that have four cameras.
Video freakin' RULES in the courtroom. It's also pretty good when dealing with insurance companies.
It could be the cheapest $300 you ever spent.
Dashcam! At the very least, one with a second, rear-facing camera. There are ones under $300 that have four cameras.
Video freakin' RULES in the courtroom. It's also pretty good when dealing with insurance companies.
It could be the cheapest $300 you ever spent.
HiBC,
The precedence has been set from Reginald Denny to current affairs. Knowledge is power.
These mobs have maimed and killed multiples of people. I can easily articulate the justification for the use of deadly force. There are a multitude of crimes these people are committing.
The precedence has been set from Reginald Denny to current affairs. Knowledge is power.
These mobs have maimed and killed multiples of people. I can easily articulate the justification for the use of deadly force. There are a multitude of crimes these people are committing.
There's a case playing out right now.
An armed man was chased, apparently with the intent to disarm him. When cornered, he shot and killed one of the persons chasing him. He was chased again after that incident, struck by one of the persons chasing him. He fell down at one point and was kicked, then struck again with an object and the person who struck him may have grabbed at his gun--he fired from the ground, killing the person who struck him. Another man rushed at him with a pistol in his hand. He fired again from the ground striking the pistol-wielding man in the arm.
Sounds like pretty straightforward self-defense, right?
He's currently in jail, charged with first degree murder and facing a number of other charges as well.
Anyone who tries to convince you that it will be easy to talk your way out of shooting someone in a riot situation isn't keeping up with the news, and you aren't doing yourself any favors if you believe what they tell you and act on it.
An armed man was chased, apparently with the intent to disarm him. When cornered, he shot and killed one of the persons chasing him. He was chased again after that incident, struck by one of the persons chasing him. He fell down at one point and was kicked, then struck again with an object and the person who struck him may have grabbed at his gun--he fired from the ground, killing the person who struck him. Another man rushed at him with a pistol in his hand. He fired again from the ground striking the pistol-wielding man in the arm.
Sounds like pretty straightforward self-defense, right?
He's currently in jail, charged with first degree murder and facing a number of other charges as well.
Anyone who tries to convince you that it will be easy to talk your way out of shooting someone in a riot situation isn't keeping up with the news, and you aren't doing yourself any favors if you believe what they tell you and act on it.
That won't do you much good right now. Your attackers will be portrayed as saints (even if they are actually convicted rapists, drug dealers, and wife-beaters) and you will be cast as a neo-Nazi terrorist and murderer.HiBC,
The precedence has been set from Reginald Denny to current affairs. Knowledge is power.
These mobs have maimed and killed multiples of people. I can easily articulate the justification for the use of deadly force. There are a multitude of crimes these people are committing.
That is exactly what's playing out in Wisconsin right now, except I'm not sure about the drug dealer; it might have been some other felonies. That kid (who may or may not be totally innocent) will never get a fair trial, he just has to pray that at least one juror sees through the circus and he gets a mistrial.
Without some kind of evidence it would be tough to prove the justification to the court. Your public image will probably suffer no matter how justified you were because of the smearing campaign of the mob. But I agree with whoever said the dashcam - those things are neat. You can just set it to run and at the press of a button it will save the last 5 minutes (or whatever you set it to) that just occurred, so you can press that button after the situation happened.
Bear spray used on people might be illegal. I think that's what my bottle says in fine print on the back. People spray perhaps?
One thing that might not occur to me in the heat of the moment is giving myself license to break normal traffic rules to avoid the mob or back up / turn around. For example, am I really stuck in my lane if I can just do a 3 point turn to get out of dodge?
Bear spray used on people might be illegal. I think that's what my bottle says in fine print on the back. People spray perhaps?
One thing that might not occur to me in the heat of the moment is giving myself license to break normal traffic rules to avoid the mob or back up / turn around. For example, am I really stuck in my lane if I can just do a 3 point turn to get out of dodge?
Or drive over a curb, or on the grass, or having to back up for a block or two, or drive the wrong way on a street.For example, am I really stuck in my lane if I can just do a 3 point turn to get out of dodge?
Tickets are a pain, but they're much less of a pain than even the best case consequences of what we're discussing.
"No good answer" hypothetical road block
While he may be charged as an adult, being a 17 year old in the possession of a rifle that was driven across state lines and not appearing to be under any supervision certainly doesn’t help his case.
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There's a case playing out right now.
An armed man was chased, apparently with the intent to disarm him. When cornered, he shot and killed one of the persons chasing him. He was chased again after that incident, struck by one of the persons chasing him. He fell down at one point and was kicked, then struck again with an object and the person who struck him may have grabbed at his gun--he fired from the ground, killing the person who struck him. Another man rushed at him with a pistol in his hand. He fired again from the ground striking the pistol-wielding man in the arm.
Sounds like pretty straightforward self-defense, right?
He's currently in jail, charged with first degree murder and facing a number of other charges as well.
Anyone who tries to convince you that it will be easy to talk your way out of shooting someone in a riot situation isn't keeping up with the news, and you aren't doing yourself any favors if you believe what they tell you and act on it.
While he may be charged as an adult, being a 17 year old in the possession of a rifle that was driven across state lines and not appearing to be under any supervision certainly doesn’t help his case.
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Time and the courts will hopefully find justice .
If what we know about the case of the young man in Kenosha came via the news,we really don't know anything.
17 year olds can let their idealism overwhelm wisdom. He may have had the honorable intent to help protect property.
The Heroes Journey.
Its probably a really bad idea to arm up and drive to a riot.
I don't know what set the young man and the crowd off,but did see what happened with Rand Paul. Rand Paul feared for his life,and except for a couple of police officers,Rand Paul may have suffered great violence.
If Rand Paul felt that way,the 17 year old kid may have,also.
When you get surrounded by a pack of those hyenas,things likely will go violent.
We might have better sense than to drive to a riot with the plan to open carry a long gun,but some folks peacefully demonstrate open carry of a long gun.
They are usually within their rights.
Whether the young man was 100% lawfully carrying,or not,odds are good there was no reason to be violent with him,including trying to disarm him.
If I am carrying,I won't let an angry mob disarm me. (Once again,these "protests" have taken place in Denver and farther north to my town. I did not go near any of it. Thats Plan "A". No need to discuss plan "B")
I don't know enough to say if the young man was justified shooting.
But I do believe there are some violent people in those mobs who justify shooting.
If a skateboard is used for an assault,its a deadly weapon. I'm not a lawyer,but my sense of justice says "What SHOULD be" is if a guy assaults with a skateboard....he should not expect his life to matter.
As the Zimmerman/Martin case showed us, being stupid and walking toward trouble with a gun just might find you more trouble than you can handle,but being stupid does not necessarily cancel your right to defend yourself,and if your attacker is bashing your head,with the sidewalk or a skateboard,shooting him may be justified.
I have not made my mind up on this one. Time will tell
If what we know about the case of the young man in Kenosha came via the news,we really don't know anything.
17 year olds can let their idealism overwhelm wisdom. He may have had the honorable intent to help protect property.
The Heroes Journey.
Its probably a really bad idea to arm up and drive to a riot.
I don't know what set the young man and the crowd off,but did see what happened with Rand Paul. Rand Paul feared for his life,and except for a couple of police officers,Rand Paul may have suffered great violence.
If Rand Paul felt that way,the 17 year old kid may have,also.
When you get surrounded by a pack of those hyenas,things likely will go violent.
We might have better sense than to drive to a riot with the plan to open carry a long gun,but some folks peacefully demonstrate open carry of a long gun.
They are usually within their rights.
Whether the young man was 100% lawfully carrying,or not,odds are good there was no reason to be violent with him,including trying to disarm him.
If I am carrying,I won't let an angry mob disarm me. (Once again,these "protests" have taken place in Denver and farther north to my town. I did not go near any of it. Thats Plan "A". No need to discuss plan "B")
I don't know enough to say if the young man was justified shooting.
But I do believe there are some violent people in those mobs who justify shooting.
If a skateboard is used for an assault,its a deadly weapon. I'm not a lawyer,but my sense of justice says "What SHOULD be" is if a guy assaults with a skateboard....he should not expect his life to matter.
As the Zimmerman/Martin case showed us, being stupid and walking toward trouble with a gun just might find you more trouble than you can handle,but being stupid does not necessarily cancel your right to defend yourself,and if your attacker is bashing your head,with the sidewalk or a skateboard,shooting him may be justified.
I have not made my mind up on this one. Time will tell
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Yup....,these "protests" have taken place in Denver and farther north to my town. I did not go near any of it. Thats Plan "A".
There are some things that will work in his favor.I don't know enough to say if the young man was justified shooting.
1. He was discriminating with his fire. He shot no one who was not directly targeting him in one way or another. It may be that the courts will find that he didn't have sufficient justification for one or more of the injuries/deaths that resulted, but at least he didn't hit any bystanders.
2. He exercised restraint. When there was clearly no threat he held his fire and did not even threaten those around him by pointing his weapon at them.
3. He was clearly trying to get away from any threats, shooting only when he was unable to retreat.
Will it be enough? It's impossible to say at this point, but it's safe to say that any legal solution for the problem posed by the OP will incorporate these three principles.
What I find unbelievable in that whole mess is that after he had shot someone, unarmed people continued to try to engage him.
I really cannot wrap my head around that. Guy shoots someone and then tries to flee, and I'm grabbing my skateboard and trying to hit him with it? All I can come up with is drugs.
I really cannot wrap my head around that. Guy shoots someone and then tries to flee, and I'm grabbing my skateboard and trying to hit him with it? All I can come up with is drugs.
What I find unbelievable in that whole mess is that after he had shot someone, unarmed people continued to try to engage him.
I really cannot wrap my head around that. Guy shoots someone and then tries to flee, and I'm grabbing my skateboard and trying to hit him with it? All I can come up with is drugs.
This is why I’m also very skeptical when people talk as if presenting a firearm will yield compliance, especially against a mob. Against a rational individual, sure. But people that might not be rational to begin with and that have the mental comfort of numbers? I make no assumptions when it comes to that.
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The individual in question had a criminal history of dug offenses ...... js .....really cannot wrap my head around that. Guy shoots someone and then tries to flee, and I'm grabbing my skateboard and trying to hit him with it? All I can come up with is drugs.
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