"No good answer" hypothetical road block
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"No good answer" hypothetical roqd block
I’m gonna say that if you drive up an exit ramp and then through a highway closure (going on the shoulder around vehicles parked across the center) on a closed highway and are on video veering into running people that you’re likely the person who should hold the blame.
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I’m gonna say that if you drive up an exit ramp and then through a highway closure (going on the shoulder around vehicles parked across the center) on a closed highway and are on video veering into running people that you’re likely the person who should hold the blame.
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Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
Free opinion: People who block interstates are hostis humani generis and should be treated as such.
Tunnelrat:
I think I've been reasonably clear...
"No Good answer " includes that shooting people or running over people are certainly not good answers.
They are the worst of answers if there is any other choice.
Because we are kicking ideas around,not establishing procedures,I've considered my M-1 carbine as a good tool to have in the truck.So far,the carbine has stayed home. I do ride with a 1911.
IMO,you may have underemphasized my primary plan,which is to stay the hell away from any demonstrations,even if to show up in support of LEO's or the 2 A.
Rule One Dont drive toward "The wrong place at the wrong time"
That includes NOT getting my hackles up and saying "I ain't gonna let no protest keep me from getting a brisket sandwich"
Not bad,eh?
I used to practice the 180 degree emergency brake turn to where I could put my vehicle into a parking place. I can do a 1 lane dynamic U-turn.
Reversing direction of travel from toward trouble to away from trouble is pretty good.
Meet with your approval?
If I have my hubs in,to avoid hurting anyone,even the crazys,,I can make my own off road alternative escape route,maybe. Depends on situation and terrain.but a sane,rational option. The point being to NOT HURT ANYONE
Long ago,my brother had a problem with the dogs jumping up on the car when he came home.The claws were scratching the paint and it was not good dog manners.
He hooked a Model T coil up to the car body with a switch.
It worked like an electric fence. The tires were the insulators. If you bridged from the car body to ground,you got zapped.
Not James Bond. Real world experience. Sorry you missed it. Problem is those dogs and us okie kids did not have rubber soled tennis shoes on.
If the protestors were barefoot, I'd have a good non-lethal practical method to get people off my truck.
I certainly support first amendment rights to protest.
Have you,the media,politicians,and law enforcement lost the idea that it is not only the protestors that have rights,but I do,too?
Why is the protestors protest more protected than my right to be safe in my travels?
Lets not forget that recently a black woman with her child needed to be on her way and a "Protestor" shot her child dead.
What if you have a sick child or a woman in labor in your car, you need to get to the hospital,and you are blocked?
I'll tell you something else,quite alarming. I just went to youtube to retrieve video I watched within the last few weeks. A woman with a child in her car attacked.
EVERY SINGLE VIDEO of protestors attacking cars has been scrubbed. Gone.
The ONLY point of view documented on youtube now is crazy drivers slamming into innocent protestors.
This is the "history" being documented today.
In three years,it will be used to indoctrinate your children in school
Buy important books now. The paper ones. All digital history will be rewritten.
I think I've been reasonably clear...
"No Good answer " includes that shooting people or running over people are certainly not good answers.
They are the worst of answers if there is any other choice.
Because we are kicking ideas around,not establishing procedures,I've considered my M-1 carbine as a good tool to have in the truck.So far,the carbine has stayed home. I do ride with a 1911.
IMO,you may have underemphasized my primary plan,which is to stay the hell away from any demonstrations,even if to show up in support of LEO's or the 2 A.
Rule One Dont drive toward "The wrong place at the wrong time"
That includes NOT getting my hackles up and saying "I ain't gonna let no protest keep me from getting a brisket sandwich"
Not bad,eh?
I used to practice the 180 degree emergency brake turn to where I could put my vehicle into a parking place. I can do a 1 lane dynamic U-turn.
Reversing direction of travel from toward trouble to away from trouble is pretty good.
Meet with your approval?
If I have my hubs in,to avoid hurting anyone,even the crazys,,I can make my own off road alternative escape route,maybe. Depends on situation and terrain.but a sane,rational option. The point being to NOT HURT ANYONE
Long ago,my brother had a problem with the dogs jumping up on the car when he came home.The claws were scratching the paint and it was not good dog manners.
He hooked a Model T coil up to the car body with a switch.
It worked like an electric fence. The tires were the insulators. If you bridged from the car body to ground,you got zapped.
Not James Bond. Real world experience. Sorry you missed it. Problem is those dogs and us okie kids did not have rubber soled tennis shoes on.
If the protestors were barefoot, I'd have a good non-lethal practical method to get people off my truck.
I certainly support first amendment rights to protest.
Have you,the media,politicians,and law enforcement lost the idea that it is not only the protestors that have rights,but I do,too?
Why is the protestors protest more protected than my right to be safe in my travels?
Lets not forget that recently a black woman with her child needed to be on her way and a "Protestor" shot her child dead.
What if you have a sick child or a woman in labor in your car, you need to get to the hospital,and you are blocked?
I'll tell you something else,quite alarming. I just went to youtube to retrieve video I watched within the last few weeks. A woman with a child in her car attacked.
EVERY SINGLE VIDEO of protestors attacking cars has been scrubbed. Gone.
The ONLY point of view documented on youtube now is crazy drivers slamming into innocent protestors.
This is the "history" being documented today.
In three years,it will be used to indoctrinate your children in school
Buy important books now. The paper ones. All digital history will be rewritten.
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"No good answer" hypothetical roqd block
You can use Latin all you want. If you have no problem with someone driving onto a closed highway by going up an exit ramp, going around a vehicle blockade, and driving at full speed into the people on that interstate than I am not sure what to tell you. That is the story ghbucky and I have been discussing. That’s not the same as the situation being described by the OP, not by a long shot in my view.
I don’t want people standing on the interstate and as we’ve discussed it’s generally illegal to do so. That doesn’t mean I want people to run them over because I consider them the “enemy of mankind” (which is genuinely reserved for pirates, terrorists, and slave traders from what I can find).
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You can use Latin all you want. If you have no problem with someone driving onto a closed highway by going up an exit ramp, going around a vehicle blockade, and driving at full speed into the people on that interstate than I am not sure what to tell you. That is the story ghbucky and I have been discussing. That’s not the same as the situation being described by the OP, not by a long shot in my view.
I don’t want people standing on the interstate and as we’ve discussed it’s generally illegal to do so. That doesn’t mean I want people to run them over because I consider them the “enemy of mankind” (which is genuinely reserved for pirates, terrorists, and slave traders from what I can find).
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"No good answer" hypothetical roqd block
The only thing of yours I mentioned was the electric grid on the car and I then compared it to James Bond (Tomorrow Never Dies has a scene that is exactly what you describe). I said I thought people were letting their imaginations run wild and maybe we need to take a breath. If that’s unfair to you it is what it is. Not all opinions are ones that agree with each other (this would be a pretty boring forum otherwise). As for your brother and his dogs, the law tends to regard pain compliance with humans as different from that with dogs.
As for your rights, I don’t believe I’ve denied your rights at all. Heck I’ve barely directed any comments towards you. I don’t believe I’ve suggested your rights are less important, that’s a strawman argument in my opinion. I also can’t somehow answer for all of the media, politicians, or law enforcement as I’m none of those.
I didn’t start off my comments on this thread saying how dare you prepare to defend yourself. I said to you that you can drive on flat tires. Beyond that all I’ve done so far is suggest finding methods to secure a long gun in a car (and consider your local laws for firearm transportation) and point out that just because a person is standing in the road doesn’t inherently mean he or she is prepared to assault and or kill a driver (and those comments were directed at another member).
I find it interesting that many here use “protestor” in quotes. While we’re pointing out that indeed a number of protestors have been violent, I’d like to point out the thousands of protestors that haven’t been violent for every one protestor that has. After every mass shooting I see people on the left going around putting “good guy with a gun” in quotes. The mistake here on both sides is judging an entire group by the actions of a few, and frankly the number of people killed by mass shooters likely dwarfs those pulled out of a car by a mob. Does that mean I think the second amendment should go away? No, just like I don’t think every “protestor” is going to pull me from a car or that protesting without a permit should automatically result in an arrest. Pointing that out doesn’t seem controversial to me, but apparently not.
There are violent people in the world, I’m not so naive as to not realize that. The caution from me is that in our legal system a person has to demonstrate they are a threat before you can respond in kind (something I agree with). Obviously in the original scenario a threat exists, but as people bring up other scenarios each scenario has to be examined and if I don’t see a threat (such as the story posted by ghbucky), then I’ll say as much.
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Tunnelrat:
I think I've been reasonably clear...
"No Good answer " includes that shooting people or running over people are certainly not good answers.
They are the worst of answers if there is any other choice.
Because we are kicking ideas around,not establishing procedures,I've considered my M-1 carbine as a good tool to have in the truck.So far,the carbine has stayed home. I do ride with a 1911.
IMO,you may have underemphasized my primary plan,which is to stay the hell away from any demonstrations,even to show up in support of LEO's or the 2 A.
Rule Oneont drive toward "The wrong place at the wrong time"
That includes NOT getting my hackles up and saying "I ain't gonna let no protest keep me from getting a brisket sandwich"
Not bad,eh?
I used to practice the 180 degree emergency brake turn to where I could put my vehicle into a parking place. I can do a 1 lane dynamic U-turn.
Reversing direction of travel from toward trouble to away from trouble is pretty good.
Meet with your approval?
If I have my hubs in,to avoid hurting anyone,even the crazys,,I can make my own off road alternative escape route,maybe. Depends on situation and terrain.but a sane,rational option. The point being to NOT HURT ANYONE
Long ago,my brother had a problem with the dogs jumping up on the car when he came home.Te claws were scratching the paint and it was not good dog manners.
He hooked a Model T coil up to the car body with a switch.
It worked like an electric fence. The ires were the insulators. If you bridged from the car body to ground,you got zapped.
Not James Bond. Real world experience. Sorry you missed it. Problem is those dogs and us okie kids did not have rubber soled tennis shoes on.
If the protestors were barefoot, I'd have a good non-lethal practical method to get people off my truck.
I certainly support first ammendment rights to protest.
Have you,the media,politicians,and law enforcement lost the idea that it is not only the protestors that have rights,but I do,too?
Why is the protestors protest more protected than my right to be safe in my travels?
Lets not forget that recently a black woman with her child needed to be on her way and a "Protestor" shot her child dead.
The only thing of yours I mentioned was the electric grid on the car and I then compared it to James Bond (Tomorrow Never Dies has a scene that is exactly what you describe). I said I thought people were letting their imaginations run wild and maybe we need to take a breath. If that’s unfair to you it is what it is. Not all opinions are ones that agree with each other (this would be a pretty boring forum otherwise). As for your brother and his dogs, the law tends to regard pain compliance with humans as different from that with dogs.
As for your rights, I don’t believe I’ve denied your rights at all. Heck I’ve barely directed any comments towards you. I don’t believe I’ve suggested your rights are less important, that’s a strawman argument in my opinion. I also can’t somehow answer for all of the media, politicians, or law enforcement as I’m none of those.
I didn’t start off my comments on this thread saying how dare you prepare to defend yourself. I said to you that you can drive on flat tires. Beyond that all I’ve done so far is suggest finding methods to secure a long gun in a car (and consider your local laws for firearm transportation) and point out that just because a person is standing in the road doesn’t inherently mean he or she is prepared to assault and or kill a driver (and those comments were directed at another member).
I find it interesting that many here use “protestor” in quotes. While we’re pointing out that indeed a number of protestors have been violent, I’d like to point out the thousands of protestors that haven’t been violent for every one protestor that has. After every mass shooting I see people on the left going around putting “good guy with a gun” in quotes. The mistake here on both sides is judging an entire group by the actions of a few, and frankly the number of people killed by mass shooters likely dwarfs those pulled out of a car by a mob. Does that mean I think the second amendment should go away? No, just like I don’t think every “protestor” is going to pull me from a car or that protesting without a permit should automatically result in an arrest. Pointing that out doesn’t seem controversial to me, but apparently not.
There are violent people in the world, I’m not so naive as to not realize that. The caution from me is that in our legal system a person has to demonstrate they are a threat before you can respond in kind (something I agree with). Obviously in the original scenario a threat exists, but as people bring up other scenarios each scenario has to be examined and if I don’t see a threat (such as the story posted by ghbucky), then I’ll say as much.
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Nice job tunnelrat
Thanks for getting the truth out on that horrible incident. Unlike others who seemed bent on telling part of the story to further inflame tensions.
Please don't be part of the problem.
Shutting down Interstate 5 is not peaceful protest. That said some idiot who commits vehicular homicide will feel the full weight of our criminal justice system.
And that is as it should be.
Thanks for getting the truth out on that horrible incident. Unlike others who seemed bent on telling part of the story to further inflame tensions.
Please don't be part of the problem.
Shutting down Interstate 5 is not peaceful protest. That said some idiot who commits vehicular homicide will feel the full weight of our criminal justice system.
And that is as it should be.
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
I don’t want people run over but if you protest on an interstate that is a forseeable outcome. And the economic damage caused by blocking off an interstate is substantially greater than pirates capturing a ship circa 1720s.
"No good answer" hypothetical roqd block
Actually in terms of percentages it might be as large of an impact (depending on how long the highway is closed and the ship we’re discussing).
I’m not sure it’s a foreseeable outcome that people will drive up exit ramps, on closed highways, and around vehicle barricades. That said if you run people over as in that story then be prepared to have fun in court, just like the driver is currently having.
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Actually in terms of percentages it might be as large of an impact (depending on how long the highway is closed and the ship we’re discussing).
I’m not sure it’s a foreseeable outcome that people will drive up exit ramps, on closed highways, and around vehicle barricades. That said if you run people over as in that story then be prepared to have fun in court, just like the driver is currently having.
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Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
Well, these things only happen in certain cities. All of these cities are controlled by a single political party. If you go to those cities and run over/shoot their cannon fodder, you’ll be prosecuted for it.
If you don’t go to those cities, you won’t have any trouble because people won’t be standing on the highway like retards.*
*Says the guy who drives right into the heart of a constant ongoing protest every damn day since 5/30.
If you don’t go to those cities, you won’t have any trouble because people won’t be standing on the highway like retards.*
*Says the guy who drives right into the heart of a constant ongoing protest every damn day since 5/30.
"No good answer" hypothetical roqd block
You’re not going to convince me that the driver in question was either directly threatened or had no choice. This was pretty damn deliberate. I could care less whether the protesters in this case were card carrying members of the Communist Party. This was not self defense and is absolutely worthy of prosecution, cannon fodder or no. We can keep going back and forth until this horse is unrecognizable, but there’s not much point. I’ll stop responding to this particular exchange.
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You’re not going to convince me that the driver in question was either directly threatened or had no choice. This was pretty damn deliberate. I could care less whether the protesters in this case were card carrying members of the Communist Party. This was not self defense and is absolutely worthy of prosecution, cannon fodder or no. We can keep going back and forth until this horse is unrecognizable, but there’s not much point. I’ll stop responding to this particular exchange.
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Y'all completely missed the point of me bringing up that incident where the guy drove into the people on the freeway.
In this event, the people on the highway were in the act of committing a crime when someone was killed. They were not charged.
So the answer to this question is: not in Washington.
In this event, the people on the highway were in the act of committing a crime when someone was killed. They were not charged.
So the answer to this question is: not in Washington.
"No good answer" hypothetical roqd block
No I get that. My original comment was merely that given the circumstances of this case I’m not sure this was a good candidate of a case where you would hold the crowd partially accountable. Bart and I then had our back and forth.
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No I get that. My original comment was merely that given the circumstances of this case I’m not sure this was a good candidate of a case where you would hold the crowd partially accountable. Bart and I then had our back and forth.
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Aguila Blanca
Staff
But the driver wasn't being threatened. I'm not sure just blocking a highway constitutes a felony. I'm inclined to suspect that it's at most a misdemeanor, and maybe only a civil infraction. I think that the provision to which I referred above only applies in the case of felonies -- and I have no idea how many states may have such a provision.ghbucky said:
Getting back to the OP’s question/statement...
I think the key here is to do what is reasonable. Not what a bunch of guys on a gun forum think is ok, but what a group of potential Jurors would think was reasonable.
My take on it is this...
People pounding on your hood, trunk, roof and causing damage...call you Ins co after the event. Someone trying to breach the car by breaking the window...skinny pedal on the right.
I think the key here is to do what is reasonable. Not what a bunch of guys on a gun forum think is ok, but what a group of potential Jurors would think was reasonable.
My take on it is this...
People pounding on your hood, trunk, roof and causing damage...call you Ins co after the event. Someone trying to breach the car by breaking the window...skinny pedal on the right.
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Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
TunnelRat isn’t wrong about the legal consequences. We simply disagree about the morality.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Don't bet the ranch. I don't live anywhere near one of "those cities." Nonetheless, I think it was two weekends ago a bunch of retards blocked a major Interstate highway interchange in a [very] small city fifteen miles to the north of me. It's a good thing I have been hibernating to try to stay clear of COVID-19 because, pre-coronavirus, it's very possible that on a weekend afternoon or evening I would be driving through that interchange.Bartholomew Roberts said:
Clearly you aren't a student of history... or even current.
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