"No good answer" hypothetical road block

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But the driver wasn't being threatened. I'm not sure just blocking a highway constitutes a felony. I'm inclined to suspect that it's at most a misdemeanor, and maybe only a civil infraction. I think that the provision to which I referred above only applies in the case of felonies -- and I have no idea how many states may have such a provision.
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AB I haven’t studied every single states laws and procedures, but most states have a felony murder procedure. It’s usually incorporated in 2nd degree murder statutes. And it almost always requires that the death occur during the commission of a felony, and in some cases certain types of felonies.

The guy in discussion plowing through the protestors on the freeway INTENTIONALLY is criminally wrong imo. And I’m sure he sees that now. At the same time... it is a fair assumption that playing stupid games (like setting up an illegal road block on an interstate at night) will win stupid prizes (like being hit by a car).
 
"No good answer" hypothetical roqd block

5whiskey said:
AB I haven’t studied every single states laws and procedures, but most states have a felony murder procedure. It’s usually incorporated in 2nd degree murder statutes. And it almost always requires that the death occur during the commission of a felony, and in some cases certain types of felonies.

The guy in discussion plowing through the protestors on the freeway INTENTIONALLY is criminally wrong imo. And I’m sure he sees that now. At the same time... it is a fair assumption that playing stupid games (like setting up an illegal road block on an interstate at night) will win stupid prizes (like being hit by a car).
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The highway in question had been closed (seemingly by the police according to the story that was linked and this article from a local station says it was Washington State Patrol troopers https://komonews.com/news/local/daw...r-pleads-not-guilty-in-death-of-i-5-protester). The driver had to drive up an exit ramp to get there.

We’ve had incidents where indeed protesters that wandered onto active highways were hit by drivers of vehicles unaware of what was happening. Playing in the street can indeed have bad results, but this wasn’t some tragic accident or case of self defense. Absent a spate of temporary insanity or confusion (drug induced or not) this appears to be deliberate. Some people may argue there is no difference between the two situations I described. We’ll have to wait on the court ruling.


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5whiskey said:
AB I haven’t studied every single states laws and procedures, but most states have a felony murder procedure. It’s usually incorporated in 2nd degree murder statutes. And it almost always requires that the death occur during the commission of a felony, and in some cases certain types of felonies.
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Yes, I'm aware of such laws, and those are the laws to which I was referring. The point is, someone asked why the demonstrators who were blocking the road hadn't been charged with murder, since they were committing an illegal act and it resulted in someone dying.

And my point was that, even if the state where this occurred has such a law, these laws typically apply (as your posts states) to cases involving the commission of a felony. And I don't think blocking a highway is a felony ... therefore, even if the state has such a law, it would not apply in this case.
 
AB I was simply supporting/agreeing with you when you said this...

I think that the provision to which I referred above only applies in the case of felonies -- and I have no idea how many states may have such a provision.
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Playing in the street can indeed have bad results, but this wasn’t some tragic accident or case of self defense.
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Which is why I said that the defendant who INTENTIONALLY plowed through protestors was criminally wrong. I did not know, however, that law enforcement had shut the freeway down. The driver is going to take his ride down the criminal justice system I believe. Especially if that’s the case.
 
Bartholomew Roberts said:
Well, these things only happen in certain cities. All of these cities are controlled by a single political party. If you go to those cities and run over/shoot their cannon fodder, you’ll be prosecuted for it.

If you don’t go to those cities, you won’t have any trouble because people won’t be standing on the highway like retards.*

*Says the guy who drives right into the heart of a constant ongoing protest every damn day since 5/30.
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I pretty much agree with this. I'm a guy that will shoot and leave, take my chances but more important is I never go into area's that might happen. You go into one of those city's you really need to be aware of what's going on around you and avoid anything that even has a slim chance of getting messy. But if you find yourself there, defend yourself!
 
Well, variations of this scenario played out in a couple of places last night. A car drove into a crowd of protesters on the sidewalk at a “Back the Blue” rally in Denver. In Austin a car tried to drive down a street blocked by protesters and ended up getting swarmed. One of the protesters ran up on the vehicle armed with an AK and got shot.

In both cases video of the incident was online before the police had even finished their investigation.
 
Here’s the Colorado event, I guess it was Eaton, not Denver.
https://www.greeleytribune.com/2020/07/25/defend-the-police-rally-in-eaton-nearly-turns-tragic/

There was also an incident in Aurora where a Jeep drove down a street “closed” by protesters and the protesters fired at it, striking another protester.

There’s still a lot of confusion over what happened in the Austin event; but everyone seems to agree a car tried to drive through the protest. Protesters swarmed it. Shots were fired One of those protesters, who was carrying an AK, was shot and died. The driver of the vehicle was taken into custody by police and was cooperating.

It certainly looks like a realistic concern. I’m reminded of the line from 1984’s “WarGames.” The only winning move is not to play.
 
I’m reminded of the line from 1984’s “WarGames.” The only winning move is not to play.
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Yup. There are certainly problems that don't have a solution. The only rational reaction is to avoid that kind of a problem in the first place.
 
Some recent posts have disappeared. I completely understand and agree that we are seeing some very concerning events these days, and that most of us feel a desire -- perhaps even a need -- to discuss them, or maybe just to vent. That said, this discussion area is Training and Tactics. This is definitely not the place to drag politics into the discussion.

If you want to discuss other aspects of current events, and if your comments fit the guidelines of Law & Civil Rights, please feel free to open or join a discussion there. Before posting, however, please review the criteria for Law & Civil Rights.
 
I’d note one tactic I’ve seen protesters use across different cities in different videos. They are frequently divided into two, sometimes three, groups - a “vanguard” and a “main” group, with an occasional rearguard. I don’t know if this just reflects a tendency of marchers to straggle; but in the one incident I personally witnessed, the vanguard was putting down traffic cones with taped off tops to block traffic on sidestreets. In that incident, they were maybe 100-150m ahead of the main group and the tactic was ineffective because people drove over the traffic cones and through the gap between groups as soon as the light turned green.

In the Austin incident, it looks like the vanguard was putting out “road guards” similar to the military to accomplish the same goal. You can see the driver sitting at a green light waiting for the vanguard to pass. However the road guards left as soon as the light turned red and before the main group arrived. Given that it was a narrowish road (two lanes with parking) surrounded by tall buildings on all sides, there were a few blind spots. And if the driver was gawking at the circus that just passed him instead of his direction of travel (which people tend to do anyway in order to avoid traffic), then he may not have realized his error until it was too late.

So, in planning, I’d just be aware that there may be multiple groups of protesters and plan for that when assessing a problem.
 
Yesterday, my wife an I were going from one end of the valley (in Phoenix) to the other. Our route on a highway took us past an unusual gathering of police vehicles...one by itself, then a mile later approximately 5 parked nose to tail between exits, and then 3 more about half a mile further down the road. At this last location, members of law enforcement were out of the vehicles and displaying long guns, and looking over the far right wall. As we moved past this, my wife and I discussed it. Who were they looking for? What was going on? Etc.

On our way back, I was reminded of the situation because one of the message boards stated a particular exit was closed. We were both armed. I chose to drive the long way round to get home. It turns out that protests got unruly in that area.

If I have the opportunity, I will go far out of my way to avoid confrontations of this kind. I would make the same choice whether I am alone, or responsible for passengers.
 
There is the question of blocking public roads itself. When does "free speech" become deprivation of rights, kidnapping, even manslaughter? What if ambulances are blocked and a patient dies?
 
Being on the sidewalk/corners protesting is fine. My understanding is if you want to march in the streets (and thereby block traffic) you need a permit. Same as a parade
 
Being on the sidewalk/corners protesting is fine. My understanding is if you want to march in the streets (and thereby block traffic) you need a permit. Same as a parade
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There is the question of blocking public roads itself. When does "free speech" become deprivation of rights, kidnapping, even manslaughter? What if ambulances are blocked and a patient dies?
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It's sort of a given that if we're discussing it in T&T as something we need to be aware of and train to deal with that it's something that's not legal.

Discussions about the specific reasons that something is illegal are more suited for the Legal and Civil Rights section of TFL. This subforum is specifically focused on how we should prepare and respond.
 
I’d also note that these illegal road blockages have used all kinds of barriers and obstacles besides people - wheelbarrows, carts, other vehicles, etc. IIRC, in the reports of the Austin incident, the Austin PD noted they were delayed in getting vehicles to the scene by the protesters’ own vehicles.

So, also be aware that stomping on the gas might not be a working strategy, especially if protesters are creating limited visibility in your direction of travel.
 
:rolleyes:
There is the question of blocking public roads itself. When does "free speech" become deprivation of rights, kidnapping, even manslaughter? What if ambulances are blocked and a patient dies?
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Dalea pontificates in his most patronizing, condescending voice:
Well for those of you unaware of What's Going On Today there is hope.

I am working on an APP that you will be able to buy for your Smart Phone entitled "Which Laws Matter" (an initial marketing survey---I asked my wife---indicates this might not be the best name for it but that will be ironed out later).

You can read some details about it in post #16 of this thread:
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6806137#post6806137

So far a lack of computer/smart phone skills and an almost criminal ignorance of the law are slowing my progress of the project but if only I could get someone to show me how to set up a Go Fund Me page to raise thousands of dollars for the project (strangely enough if you don't know how to set up a Go Fund Me page people are skeptical that you could create a smart phone app) I feel certain I could devote all the time and energy to this project that it deserves.
 
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