No CCW in restaurants - thoughts
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indiandave
New member
In Pennsylvania people were up in arms about ccw when the law passed. They said or streets would turn into shooting galleries. The opposite happened. Crime went down. We can carry in bars, places that sell booze,resturants that sell alcohol etc. Crime went down not up.
inSight-NEO
New member
Unfortunately, belief has quite a bit to do with it. You could present facts, evidence and opinions all day long; however, in the end, people will choose whatever option(s) they "believe" to be the most prudent (for themselves and/or others).
After all, not all political decisions are based on "fact." But, MANY of them are based on belief. This is a shame indeed.
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Neither was I. I was referring specifically to 25-30+ years of many states allowing concealed (or open) carry in places that serve alcohol.
And that is fine with me if you choose that path but that's no justification for choosing that path for everyone (or anyone) else.
That isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the "I believe that alcohol and guns is a danger to society" statements. The FACTS (multiple states and 30 years of evidence) show that this "belief" is wrong and I refuse to accept policy made on the basis of someone's personal delusions.
inSight-NEO
New member
ZeSpectre- I misunderstood your intent and I apologize. I edited my post (#64) just prior to your response. Hence, I am in agreement with you.
However, while the right to CC within restaurants and bars (or most anywhere else for that matter) should be allowed, it is up to the individual to use absolute discretion as to whether or not he/she should even do so, if he/she plans on drinking beyond what is deemed as the "legal" amount. This, of course, should be common sense. Unfortunately, Im willing to bet that many do not consider this. It is these individuals (as yet another example) that can give responsible gun owners a bad rep.
However, while the right to CC within restaurants and bars (or most anywhere else for that matter) should be allowed, it is up to the individual to use absolute discretion as to whether or not he/she should even do so, if he/she plans on drinking beyond what is deemed as the "legal" amount. This, of course, should be common sense. Unfortunately, Im willing to bet that many do not consider this. It is these individuals (as yet another example) that can give responsible gun owners a bad rep.
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I've carried concealed in Virginia since the mid 80s. The law states that you can NOT carry concealed. Open carry IS legal in places that sell alcohol. If I enter such an establishment, I simply take off my jacket, or tuck in my shirt allowing my weapon to go from concealed to open carry.
What would that be that will reduce that chance? Assuming a state that allows a licensed CCW to carry in a place serving alcohol, but requires them NOT to drink to be legal, then how do you propose to do something that reduces the chance of someone illegally carrying?
Assume a state that does NOT allow any type of legal carry in these places. How, again, will the problem of illegal carry be stopped?
Only thing I could imagine working would be a pat-down or metal detector wand search by a person stationed at the customer entrance. Might put a damper on business, though, but everyone would be "safe".
There should be a law.
ithinkyoubrokeit
Inactive
My understanding of Washington state law, is that it's okay to carry concealed in a restaurant, so long as you don't enter any area that is posted "21 and over beyond this point"
It may be insulting to responsible gun owners, but this is a law that makes little to no impact. We aren't going to drink while carrying anyway. At least that's my assumption, which I hope is accurate.
Although, I could certainly understand if the designated driver were to be the one carrying. I personally see no problem with this. As far as I know, this would not be allowed under state law.
It may be insulting to responsible gun owners, but this is a law that makes little to no impact. We aren't going to drink while carrying anyway. At least that's my assumption, which I hope is accurate.
Although, I could certainly understand if the designated driver were to be the one carrying. I personally see no problem with this. As far as I know, this would not be allowed under state law.
SigfanTN Why don't you assume that consumption of alcohol reduces the reasoning ability of even the most well meaning person. Further assume that alcohol also increases the likelihood that even the most tempered person will reacted violently.
Finally assume that having a CCW permit doesn't make one impervious to the effects of alcohol.
Finally assume that having a CCW permit doesn't make one impervious to the effects of alcohol.
I don't assume these things because they are all true.
In your post I responded to you said:
This implies that you don't think there should be CCW allowed in restaurants serving alcohol due to fears the permitted person could be intoxicated and carrying a gun. While there is a chance of this happening, as I have said in a previous post, opening up these places to law-abiding folks is unlikely to increase the chances of the intoxicated person being armed. I would think this is just as likely either way.
The argument that permit-holders cannot be trusted to obey a law which allows them to carry in this type of establishment and abstain from consumption of alcohol is what doesn't wash with me. See in post #46 and #57, I am not for mixing alcohol and guns. I believe this is a bad idea, but I believe there are states that allow even this.
If I misunderstood what you meant, please disregard, but I have grown weary of the constant accusations (not here on TFL, but locally) that permit-holders are not responsible enough as a group to obey the law. Statistics show otherwise.
In your post I responded to you said:
This implies that you don't think there should be CCW allowed in restaurants serving alcohol due to fears the permitted person could be intoxicated and carrying a gun. While there is a chance of this happening, as I have said in a previous post, opening up these places to law-abiding folks is unlikely to increase the chances of the intoxicated person being armed. I would think this is just as likely either way.
The argument that permit-holders cannot be trusted to obey a law which allows them to carry in this type of establishment and abstain from consumption of alcohol is what doesn't wash with me. See in post #46 and #57, I am not for mixing alcohol and guns. I believe this is a bad idea, but I believe there are states that allow even this.
If I misunderstood what you meant, please disregard, but I have grown weary of the constant accusations (not here on TFL, but locally) that permit-holders are not responsible enough as a group to obey the law. Statistics show otherwise.
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Booze and Carrying Concealed in Florida
I have two interesting points to make about CCW in places that sell booze.
If anybody has had a problem with a national booze-selling national resturant chain, let us Floridians know, and we can at least let you know if the the fools where you are are behaving different here in the Gunshine State.
I have two interesting points to make about CCW in places that sell booze.
- In Florida, it is legal to both carry concealed and drink in resturants that sell adult beverages. The only limitation is that you can not sit at the bar.
- Many national resturant chains seem to have different rules in different states. For example, Darden (Olive Garden, Red Lobster, Smokey Bones, Longhorn Stake House, The Capital Grille, Bahama Breeze, Seasons 52) is headquartered in Orlando. My wife and I have eaten at many resturants of the chain down here - including an Olive Garden less than a mile from the headquarters, and have never seen any mention of no guns in any of them. This may be true for several reasons -
- CCW has been around since 1987
- nearly 600,000 Floridians have CCW's
- the place is crawling with touristas from the 33 states with receprocity
If anybody has had a problem with a national booze-selling national resturant chain, let us Floridians know, and we can at least let you know if the the fools where you are are behaving different here in the Gunshine State.
WV Shooter
Inactive
I love all the pro gun moves Tn has made, but the one that counts has not happened yet. I work at an anti-gun company that does not allow guns on the property. There is no alternative parking anywhere. We need a law that lets me work in downtown Memphis (night shift) without going unarmed.
fat old gun nut
New member
carry in restruants????
Florida has a really strange law concerning restaurants. If it's Joe's Bar & Grill you cannot carry because its assumed??? the main income is from alcohol. If it's Joe's Grill & Bar its legal to carry since the main income source is assumed to be food.
Florida has a really strange law concerning restaurants. If it's Joe's Bar & Grill you cannot carry because its assumed??? the main income is from alcohol. If it's Joe's Grill & Bar its legal to carry since the main income source is assumed to be food.
fat old gun nut said -
Nearly every place in Florida sells food and drink. I only know of one place - at Disney's EPCOT - that is a straight all booze, no food joint. No guns there.
When concealed carry passed in 1987, there were a number of these booze-only joints; these places were considered places for fights and shootings. They - as far as I know - have disappeared...
The rule is not to sit at the bar. You can eat and/or drink as you wish in the rest of the establishment.
Nearly every place in Florida sells food and drink. I only know of one place - at Disney's EPCOT - that is a straight all booze, no food joint. No guns there.
When concealed carry passed in 1987, there were a number of these booze-only joints; these places were considered places for fights and shootings. They - as far as I know - have disappeared...
The rule is not to sit at the bar. You can eat and/or drink as you wish in the rest of the establishment.
MoreCowBell
New member
My state is moving toward modifying the law so you can carry in restaurants that serve alcohol. I think they're going to add the bit about not sitting in the bar area to appease the anti-gunners.
But the selling point, and I think it's a smart one, is this: To get to the night spots you have to go downtown or into congested areas and the aspect of getting from the parking building/back alleys etc to the night spots is where the danger lies.
I'm thinking there have even been threats from the lawyer side to major suits against the state or city if people get attacked going out at night because they 'couldn't carry in places where alchohol is served.'
I really like this slant on the argument and I think it's a winner.
What might be really cool is check your gun with the bartender, he hangs it behind the bar. I haven't seen that since Matt Dillon. At least you get to protect yourself going to and from, eh?
But the selling point, and I think it's a smart one, is this: To get to the night spots you have to go downtown or into congested areas and the aspect of getting from the parking building/back alleys etc to the night spots is where the danger lies.
I'm thinking there have even been threats from the lawyer side to major suits against the state or city if people get attacked going out at night because they 'couldn't carry in places where alchohol is served.'
I really like this slant on the argument and I think it's a winner.
What might be really cool is check your gun with the bartender, he hangs it behind the bar. I haven't seen that since Matt Dillon. At least you get to protect yourself going to and from, eh?
SigFan TN-very well said,in your earlier posts.
I agree with you that many criminal attacks come at night after the patrons leave restaurants and bars.
Why?
Easy victims.
The patrons are usually in a great mood,unarmed and not paying attention to their surroundings.
Let's stop allowing the state and federal government from making easy victims for the bad guys to rob and kill.
As an American citizen I have the right to defend myself and my family from crime wherever it may be.
I agree with you that many criminal attacks come at night after the patrons leave restaurants and bars.
Why?
Easy victims.
The patrons are usually in a great mood,unarmed and not paying attention to their surroundings.
Let's stop allowing the state and federal government from making easy victims for the bad guys to rob and kill.
As an American citizen I have the right to defend myself and my family from crime wherever it may be.