New Firearms Manufacturer

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id like to see a all metal frame
skeletonized hammer and trigger ( like 1911 higher end models)
single stack mag
+p capability
interchangable grips, possibly back plates
3 or more mags. or a redily available supply of mags at a good price. $60 smith mags **** me off
id like to see a duty size as well as a compact carry size
holster options, i love blackhawk, galco miami classic, alien gear

if you design one off the 1911 platform holsters will be readily available. however it may be more of a curse than gift as the 1911 market is saturated heavily
 
I'm a mechanical engineer and if I had the possibility I'll develop a 1911 with a rotating barrel similar to the Obregon pistol. As a prototype, I'd modify a 1911 frame to mount a locking block similar to the Beretta Px4 Storm (using the original slide release) and I'd focus my attention to the slide and barrel. For all the parts of the frame, magazines and sights I'll try to stick with the 1911 design for parts interchangeability and aftermarket appeal for the customers.
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Good luck with this endeavor.
 
There are two requirements, more important to a new manufacturer than the type of sights or style of magazine; one is quality control, the second customer service. You must have good manufacturing techniques, and good inspection procedures to ensure that every gun that leaves your factory passes proof and function testing*. If you do that, you will have little need for the second requirement, customer service. Have people willing to listen to your customers, and have a flat no-hassle return policy for any problem.

Note that those will cost money. You MUST have enough capital not just to make guns but to deal with customers. Ruger could start in a barn and build a major business. But he had a quality product, and mainly he didn't have to deal with social media that can magnify any small problem into a national crisis in ten minutes. But if your product is good quality and works well, you can become, if not wealthy, at least very well off and have a successful company.

*IMHO that means one proof load for each chamber and one full magazine or cylinder of function firing. With no U.S. proof law, too many American makers "box and ship" without the gun ever being fired unless it is going to a state that requires a fired case. The attitude is the same followed by some auto makers - get it out the door and deal with complaints later. If the customer is too dead to complain, that is OK.

Jim
 
that means one proof load for each chamber and one full magazine or cylinder of function firing.
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M. Ayoob said that when S&W went .45, each and every 645 was fired 48 rounds. I recall it was 3 magazines of hardball, one each of three different hollowpoints.
That might be too much to expect from a startup, but one for sure.
 
Some thoughts - NO magazine disconect.

Offer a two dot night sight as standard - i.e. Heni Straight 8.

Light / accessory rail - YES

Keep the design as simple as possible. If it can be totally disassembled with only a punch ala Glock all the better.

Should be able to digest +P loads all day long.

Metal finish - I really don't care. If you are going to do stainless steel I like brushed / matte better than a shiny finish.

Regards,

Rob
 
I think that's a good idea.

The only thing that I will add is:

I wouldn't worry about price point. If you can't compete with Walmart then don't pick them as your competitor. A lot of serious gun folks don't bat an eye at a $700 gun. I would think pricing yourself over Glock/M&P might attract a different kind of buyer, one that isn't interested in what many perceive to be your competition.

It's a striker fired world. While I'm getting into hammer fired guns currently, I don't think that trend will change. I would keep that in mind. As far as design characteristics I would only offer "size" The CCO 1911 size gun is sought after by many and there seem to be less options for that size. Many are smaller and many are larger. Keep it slim and in that ball park.
 
Traditionally, the MSRP will be about 7 times the factory material and labor cost. The retail (or MSRP) can't be set arbitrarily; it has to be based on the cost of manufacture, plus other costs (tooling amortization, factory rent, insurance, etc.) plus distributor profit, plus dealer profit. A handgun manufacturer today almost has to be self-insured, which means setting aside a good chunk of the income for insurance. And distributor/dealer profit is necessary; if dealers can't make a good profit, they won't carry the line and today you can't sell without dealers (no more mail order catalogs with pages of handguns).

Jim
 
327 Magnum Revolver

When you are ready to make a revolver, do something that nobody else has done. Otherwise, why bother?

Make it a 327 magnum with at least 8 rounds (preferably 9), like the S&W 627 8 round Performance Center. 2 1/2 or 3" barrel. Tritium night sights. However, perhaps make it with alloy metal, so it will be lighter and easier to carry.

Then also make 6 round 327 magnum as a potential companion revolver that is small enough to pocket carry, like the S&W 432PD (32 H&R Magnum)
 
Leejack was right when he said:

Make it as simple as possibly using the fewest amount of parts to cover the function. Whatever safety devices you use, no unnecessary magazine gizmos or internal locks. The gun should be capable of firing without a magazine installed.
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Personally, I like a DA/SA pistol. I feel that carrying decocked is the right amount of safety for me. I like a decocking lever but not a manual safety. If you go this route, keep in mind that other companies have been successful with "LEM trigger modifications" so those should be an option.

That said, interchangeable grip components are becoming popular and some of us may see that as a selling point. I know one grippe I have with the current market is that I like finger grooves in a grip. Too many great guns don't have them. If they also have those extra safety features that Leejack was talking about, I'll probably pass on a purchase.

BTW, I think the most comfortable 9mm I've ever handled was a P30.
 
This leads me to another question, what does the forum think of a "lite" model that comes in a cardboard box with one mag,
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I LIKE IT! Look, when I buy guns, I want the gun. I want as much money as possible to go into the metallurgy, fit, finish, internal parts, springs, grips, and design of the gun. Not the box. And, if I want extra magazines, I'll buy them when I need them. For all I care, the gun can come in a used brown paper bag with a little bubble wrap to protect it from dings. I also don't need a printed manual - post a printable detailed exploded diagram of all parts on your website. Also put a description on how to field strip the gun as well as how to take it down to its individual parts and put it back together again. If you need to put a bunch of lawyer DO NOT's in with the gun - just print it on the brown paper bag to save paper. And to comply with any lock laws, just buy cheapest plastic ones you can find from China so I can just chuck it in the trash with the brown paper bag.

Just offer magazines and accessories direct from your website. It would be really cool if you could develop your own upgrades like adjustable triggers, drop-in tuned hammers/sears, springs, etc. - When I buy a new gun, I get jazzed up about cool upgrades that are available - look at Hennings making a killing providing doo-dads for Tanfoglios. If this stuff came direct from the factory, it would be even more appealing.
 
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Skans wrote:

If you need to put a bunch of lawyer DO NOT's in with the gun - just print it on the brown paper bag to save paper. And to comply with any lock laws, just buy cheapest plastic ones you can find from China so I can just chuck it in the trash with the brown paper bag.
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I agree. I don't think you'll find one among us who likes a printed warning on the gun itself. I think at least half of us resent childish safety warnings on something as inherently serious as a gun. I think we all agree that it looks ugly too. Has anyone here seen even one case where an on-gun warning was aesthetically pleasing?

Skans raises another interesting point. I never thought about it before but I think every new gun I've bought came with trigger locks or other junk that I only saw or touched once before banishing it to the closet with the rest of the box and paperwork. If you want to offer a nice trigger lock specific for your gun, sell it as an accessory...

Just offer magazines and accessories direct from your website. It would be really cool if you could develop your own upgrades like adjustable triggers, drop-in tuned hammers/sears, springs, etc. - When I buy a new gun, I get jazzed up about cool upgrades that are available - look at Hennings making a killing providing doo-dads for Tanfoglios. If this stuff came direct from the factory, it would be even more appealing.
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I tend to agree. There seems to be good money in accessories and there is something special about having your accessories made to quality standards by the original manufacturer. The initial gun purchase then hooks people on some accessory sales down the road.
 
You are coming from a firearms company if FL? Okay. That's Kel Tec.

Okay. I'll bite.

Don't be SKY, SCYY, or SKYY.

And don't be Diamondback.


Kel Tec seems to produce confident engineers with little....well, everyone knows the results.
 
Just to clear up a couple of things. Ruger puts the "billboard" on its guns not because it wants to but because that was in the terms of settlement of a law suit; the alternative would have been being put out of business by a monstrous judgement against them.

The inclusion of a lock with a new handgun is a requirement under Federal law, not something done at the whim of dealers. The gun being discussed will also come with a lock whether the customer (or 2am) likes it or not.

Jim
 
The only way I can see that you have any chance to succeed is to match the Glocks, SIGs, Springfield XDs Ruger, S&W and CZs in performance and do it at a lower price. Few shooters will take a chance on a new product that has nothing to offer over an old trusted product at the same price.
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While we respect all other makes, and I personally own some of their products, the above companies are not our competition. We will be building a superior product in much lower numbers. Superior machine work, superior metallurgy, lots of customization options, and a TRANSFERABLE lifetime guarantee. We really appreciate the input and advice, you will be happy with the result. please keep up with the ideas.
 
Any insight would be wonderful.
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The competition market is under-targeted, imo. Everyone is trying to make the next Glock, so they can get huge LEO / MIL contracts, which is an overcrowded and rough market.

So when they come out with a "competition" model, it's just a gussied-up military model. I'm not saying you shouldn't pander to the LEO / MIL crowd with a model or 3 -- everyone needs to make a buck. I'm saying there's an opportunity to build a serious brand that's wide open.

Consider Production division for USPSA / IPSC. The two best guns for that division, the Tangfolio and the Accu-Shadow, are pricey (1200-1700 bucks) and often impossible to buy, because demand far outstrips supply. Both those guns are just rip-offs (very well-done rip-offs) of the endlessly recycled 1911 design, but they tick the important boxes: they're full-size, very heavy, very accurate, and can be made to have "good enough" triggers.

Neither of them offers fully ambidextrous controls, neither is known for exceptional reliability, neither is known for ease / simplicity of maintenance, and a more modern design could sweep that entire niche off it's feet, if the product is worthy and availability can be maintained.

Is it a huge market segment? Not even close. But it is a segment you could own, and a platform from which you could learn a ton (nothing shows weakness better than the stresses of competition). Do it right, and you can build a brand off the reputation earned in the crucible of competition. You can demand a nice price point (Accu-Shadows are 1,665 bucks and cannot be kept in stock), accessories / parts will sell like mad (competitors love to customize and because they shoot more than everyone else, consumables are used at a greater rate).

Good luck with your new company
 
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