PatientWolf
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I realize this is the wrong forum, and it is not a suggestion for the current pistol you are working on, but would you consider a .40 / 10mm lever action rifle?
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2 things, Fish, I have a few Glocks and the angle is a non issue to me. I never thought about it until I read it here. I am the most accurate with all three of them. I am more accurate with it then my 1911. In fact I would rather shoot my Glock chambered in .45 acp than my 1911. I just don't understang the Glock bashing. I think any handgun that doesn't fit your hand and shooting style is not a good weapon for you. Doesn't matter if it is a Sig, which I like, or a Colt 1911, Kimber, KAHR, H&K or Glock. If it doesn't fit then get one that does. No bashing needed.
I am excited to see what is developed and when I get to put one in my hands, if it fits it will find a spot in my safe!
And speaking to a rifle in 10mm or 40? A 40 would be awesome!
Mel
I am excited to see what is developed and when I get to put one in my hands, if it fits it will find a spot in my safe!
And speaking to a rifle in 10mm or 40? A 40 would be awesome!
Mel
There is no bashing stated or implied. Just a statement of empirical fact backed up by the market.
The less-raked grip angle is more common to a much wider range of popular semi-automatics (with Glocks and Ruger Mark I/II/IIIs being the most notable exceptions), and more people seem to favor the ergonomics of it. Almost every new semi-automatic developed since the Glock has abandoned the Glock's grip angle for a more upright angle.
I like Glocks too, but as good as Glock mags are, adopting them for this design forces it to use the Glock's grip angle, while other common mags (such as Beretta 92, CZ, etc.) mags better allow a grip angle whose ergonomics accommodate a wider market.
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DannyB1954
New member
You can build me a Ruger SR9C with a hammer and decocker please. I think that would be perfect. Sure a lot of people build guns like that , but most of them are steel frames, and I am not a fan of heavy, thick or large. I shoot a little but carry almost always. The older Rugers that have a hammer are a lot thicker than the SR series. A Walther P99C AS with a hammer would be good as well.
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I also think using existing magazines would be a great idea. I would like to see blueing retained, as well as DA/SA hammer fired, and a metal frame. I'm tired of plastic striker guns and I don't need any more.
What I would REALLY like to see, and I don't know if a small company could manage this, is a direct customizing ability for a nice non-1911 type gun that would cost under $700. I mean like a "build your own" option menu for a website, choosing from a range of finishes, caliber, frame material, single or double stack, pocket or full sizes, many sight choices, and choice of striker/hammer fire.
You CNC it together and ship it out in a quick timeframe. I'm not an engineer or business owner so I don't know if this is feasibly cost effective even with CNC or 3D printing, but it would certainly be something no one else offers.
What I would REALLY like to see, and I don't know if a small company could manage this, is a direct customizing ability for a nice non-1911 type gun that would cost under $700. I mean like a "build your own" option menu for a website, choosing from a range of finishes, caliber, frame material, single or double stack, pocket or full sizes, many sight choices, and choice of striker/hammer fire.
You CNC it together and ship it out in a quick timeframe. I'm not an engineer or business owner so I don't know if this is feasibly cost effective even with CNC or 3D printing, but it would certainly be something no one else offers.
The Walther P99AS and P99C AS have all the functionality of a hammer-fired action (visible and tactile indication of cocked status, ability to safety re-cock and de-cock, DA/SA action with re-strike capability, etc.).
Adding a an actual hammer wouldn't really add anything but weight and complexity.
marine6680
New member
Simplicity in operation, disassembly and maintenance is a must.
Some of the more established gun people are a little leery about new guns. New shooters with less pre-established ideas are likely a big proportion of buyers, and simple operation and maintenience helps them learn the basics easier. I like how the Sig and Springfield XD disassemble. Pistols that require you to line up marks and slide a lever into the frame just right to catch the unlocing cam of the barrel... It's finicky and tricky for some, more so if they are smaller stature and weaker in grip.
I am also not a huge rail fan, the option is nice though. A ruged and reliable removable rail would be nice for a best of both kind of a thing.
A good trigger is always a must.
Reliability is king.
Ergonomic to hold. Many manufacturers use backstrap swap to help with this. Not needed if the pistol is well thought out.
Controls need to be ambi, or reversible.
They also need to be reached as easily as possible without moving your firing grip. Minimum movement from established firing grip. Sig is one that I like for the slide catch. I don't use it to release the slide but some do. I like the ambi mag release of the XD and other models, where I can use my trigger finger to drop the mag, no movement of grip needed.
Action type can be striker or DA/SA. Good trigger reach is a must... Strikers tend to have an advantage here. I like them but do not own one ATM, it's DA/SA only right now. I will get a striker fired again though.
Everyone is different on opinion on this, but in Sigs... They have two triggers, one is the standard and the other is a thin/skinny trigger called the short reach trigger. It is about an 1/8 inch shorter reach. Problem for me is that the thin trigger feels like I pulling it back farther... Or closer in to my palm, it feels too close and I don't like that.
Good luck with this... Dec seems tight even with rapid prototyping methods.
Maybe you mean a final design reveal date, not full production ready. That seems a bit more do'able.
Competition for the big boys is always a positive, especially if the competing product is good all around and reliable.
Some of the more established gun people are a little leery about new guns. New shooters with less pre-established ideas are likely a big proportion of buyers, and simple operation and maintenience helps them learn the basics easier. I like how the Sig and Springfield XD disassemble. Pistols that require you to line up marks and slide a lever into the frame just right to catch the unlocing cam of the barrel... It's finicky and tricky for some, more so if they are smaller stature and weaker in grip.
I am also not a huge rail fan, the option is nice though. A ruged and reliable removable rail would be nice for a best of both kind of a thing.
A good trigger is always a must.
Reliability is king.
Ergonomic to hold. Many manufacturers use backstrap swap to help with this. Not needed if the pistol is well thought out.
Controls need to be ambi, or reversible.
They also need to be reached as easily as possible without moving your firing grip. Minimum movement from established firing grip. Sig is one that I like for the slide catch. I don't use it to release the slide but some do. I like the ambi mag release of the XD and other models, where I can use my trigger finger to drop the mag, no movement of grip needed.
Action type can be striker or DA/SA. Good trigger reach is a must... Strikers tend to have an advantage here. I like them but do not own one ATM, it's DA/SA only right now. I will get a striker fired again though.
Everyone is different on opinion on this, but in Sigs... They have two triggers, one is the standard and the other is a thin/skinny trigger called the short reach trigger. It is about an 1/8 inch shorter reach. Problem for me is that the thin trigger feels like I pulling it back farther... Or closer in to my palm, it feels too close and I don't like that.
Good luck with this... Dec seems tight even with rapid prototyping methods.
Maybe you mean a final design reveal date, not full production ready. That seems a bit more do'able.
Competition for the big boys is always a positive, especially if the competing product is good all around and reliable.
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Great ideas, lots of help. to the critics, our pre sale offering at a huge discount is slatted for October, with deliveries in December. Full high number production will be a couple months following.
I would love to quote or reply to the individual posts, but I cant seem to use the quote function, it may be because im a new member, or it may be a browser issue. But some of your ideas are stellar.
The best are about mags, yes we are using an existing mag design.
Second........ WOW what a GREAT idea ALL of our mags will be laser etched with brand and caliber........never thought of that, thanks friend you just earned a free tee shirt, PM me with contact info
Third, I agree about three or more mags, it is going to be a price point thing. We are VERY closely monitoring all of our costs to make our price point that when introduced should be well received.
This leads me to another question, what does the forum think of a "lite" model that comes in a cardboard box with one mag, and the standard offering that for a little more gets you a fitted case and 3 or 4 mags????????
Steve
I would love to quote or reply to the individual posts, but I cant seem to use the quote function, it may be because im a new member, or it may be a browser issue. But some of your ideas are stellar.
The best are about mags, yes we are using an existing mag design.
Second........ WOW what a GREAT idea ALL of our mags will be laser etched with brand and caliber........never thought of that, thanks friend you just earned a free tee shirt, PM me with contact info
Third, I agree about three or more mags, it is going to be a price point thing. We are VERY closely monitoring all of our costs to make our price point that when introduced should be well received.
This leads me to another question, what does the forum think of a "lite" model that comes in a cardboard box with one mag, and the standard offering that for a little more gets you a fitted case and 3 or 4 mags????????
Steve
PatientWolf
New member
I have no issues with a cardboard box, but would still prefer multiple mags. I even had a SIG that came packaged this way.
Since my guns won't fit in the safe, too full, in the box, I don't really care about the box.
Three mags is awesome. I would pay more if it came with a holster. A clip on would be fine. My handgun to holster ratio is way off.
I was impressed with the wife's LCR when I opened the box and it had a holster.
Here's a thought that Lee Iaccoca (spelling) did with the Ford Mustang. You could offer a line of options that could be added at time of order that would allow your buyer to get anything from basic to all dressed up with lasers, rails, fitted box, engraving and what ever else you can think of. Sort of like plain Jane all the way to the Shelby.
I hope this helps. I can't wait to see them!
Mel
Three mags is awesome. I would pay more if it came with a holster. A clip on would be fine. My handgun to holster ratio is way off.
I was impressed with the wife's LCR when I opened the box and it had a holster.
Here's a thought that Lee Iaccoca (spelling) did with the Ford Mustang. You could offer a line of options that could be added at time of order that would allow your buyer to get anything from basic to all dressed up with lasers, rails, fitted box, engraving and what ever else you can think of. Sort of like plain Jane all the way to the Shelby.
I hope this helps. I can't wait to see them!
Mel
leadcounsel
Moderator
I don't want the garbage accessories in the box, like the XD holster and mag holders. I'd rather save that $5 or $10 or whatever, and find/buy my own IF I even wanted the holster and accessories.
Buy 5 guns, that $10x5 would equal the price of a nice leather holster, one that you might actually use.
I also don't care much about the box, but prefer a clamshell plastic like Glock. Small enough to use, but not huge like a briefcase!
Buy 5 guns, that $10x5 would equal the price of a nice leather holster, one that you might actually use.
I also don't care much about the box, but prefer a clamshell plastic like Glock. Small enough to use, but not huge like a briefcase!
marine6680
New member
A well done cardboard box is fine by me. The SCCY box is a good example.
All I need is the pistol and a couple or three mags... Or a ready source of mags at a reasonable price.
Don't sell me a pistol with one magazine at a good price... Then charge $45 per for extra mags... I'm looking at you Sig.
A pistol case is not hard to acquire if one was inclined. I even have 2 padded zip sleeves that came with my range bag, they work well for range trips for my boxless pistols.
A range of options would be nice.
A basic box and a couple mags for the base version.
Maybe a intermediate level with 3 mags and a nice plastic case with nice cutouts.
Then a higher end with 4 mags and a quality OSWB belt holster and mag holder included. Quality being important. It needs to be solid. Decent polymer retention holsters start around the $40 mark, so one would need weigh the cost to see if am included holster and mag holder is viable.
The etched magazine idea is a good one. A few manufacturers do that, but not all.
Don't try to price point the mags too much. Magazines are one of the most important parts of a pistol. Bad magazine design or simply bad/broken/bent magazines are the primary cause of malfunctions.
In 9mm with its slight taper, a follower that fits the magazine body well, with little wobble is a must. The follower needs to be designed well to prevent follower tilt and round nosedive... I would sacrifice an extra round of capacity for a magazine that fed 100% vs one that fed 99% with one more round capacity.
Give quality of Glock, XDs for less and you will get some attention.
Ruger is a good example, good quality for $75 or a little more cheaper out the door...
Problem with Ruger is the design is a little clunkier, and all the added and unneeded safety features. Some may say... lawyered up.
Magazine disconnects... Safeties on a stricker fired or DAO... A decock and safety... Give me a decock only for my DA/SA please. Sig has tat right, I dislike combined decock safeties, might as well just have a SA if I have to disengage a safety. Sure I can decock then put the safety to the off position before holstering, but the safety can get engaged during carry, and if I don't expect that, I have an issue where my gun won't go bang when I think it should.
So long as you avoid those things, you will do well.
All I need is the pistol and a couple or three mags... Or a ready source of mags at a reasonable price.
Don't sell me a pistol with one magazine at a good price... Then charge $45 per for extra mags... I'm looking at you Sig.
A pistol case is not hard to acquire if one was inclined. I even have 2 padded zip sleeves that came with my range bag, they work well for range trips for my boxless pistols.
A range of options would be nice.
A basic box and a couple mags for the base version.
Maybe a intermediate level with 3 mags and a nice plastic case with nice cutouts.
Then a higher end with 4 mags and a quality OSWB belt holster and mag holder included. Quality being important. It needs to be solid. Decent polymer retention holsters start around the $40 mark, so one would need weigh the cost to see if am included holster and mag holder is viable.
The etched magazine idea is a good one. A few manufacturers do that, but not all.
Don't try to price point the mags too much. Magazines are one of the most important parts of a pistol. Bad magazine design or simply bad/broken/bent magazines are the primary cause of malfunctions.
In 9mm with its slight taper, a follower that fits the magazine body well, with little wobble is a must. The follower needs to be designed well to prevent follower tilt and round nosedive... I would sacrifice an extra round of capacity for a magazine that fed 100% vs one that fed 99% with one more round capacity.
Give quality of Glock, XDs for less and you will get some attention.
Ruger is a good example, good quality for $75 or a little more cheaper out the door...
Problem with Ruger is the design is a little clunkier, and all the added and unneeded safety features. Some may say... lawyered up.
Magazine disconnects... Safeties on a stricker fired or DAO... A decock and safety... Give me a decock only for my DA/SA please. Sig has tat right, I dislike combined decock safeties, might as well just have a SA if I have to disengage a safety. Sure I can decock then put the safety to the off position before holstering, but the safety can get engaged during carry, and if I don't expect that, I have an issue where my gun won't go bang when I think it should.
So long as you avoid those things, you will do well.
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Offer the "lite" model in a cardboard box and a "package" model with a nice hard case, holster, etc.
Remember that a lot of the folks on this forum are "gun enthusiasts" including myself, so we may not pay extra for a plastic holster and mag pouch. But, the majority of consumers are not enthusiasts but rather casual owners who may have one or two firearms total. So, the "total package" is appealing to them. Look at what Springfield Armory has done with its packaging of the XD. Sig offers the "Tacpac" as well that includes holsters, lasers, etc.
Most importantly, you have to offer something that isn't already saturated in the market. The market is full of CZ-75 type designs now... think of all the Witness, SAR, Tristar, CZ, Sphynx, Canik, etc. models out there; another one of those won't sell or offer anything unique. Your design has to offer something compelling, either new features or a combination of desirable features not already found on existing designs.
Remember that a lot of the folks on this forum are "gun enthusiasts" including myself, so we may not pay extra for a plastic holster and mag pouch. But, the majority of consumers are not enthusiasts but rather casual owners who may have one or two firearms total. So, the "total package" is appealing to them. Look at what Springfield Armory has done with its packaging of the XD. Sig offers the "Tacpac" as well that includes holsters, lasers, etc.
Most importantly, you have to offer something that isn't already saturated in the market. The market is full of CZ-75 type designs now... think of all the Witness, SAR, Tristar, CZ, Sphynx, Canik, etc. models out there; another one of those won't sell or offer anything unique. Your design has to offer something compelling, either new features or a combination of desirable features not already found on existing designs.
I'm a mechanical engineer and if I had the possibility I'll develop a 1911 with a rotating barrel similar to the Obregon pistol. As a prototype, I'd modify a 1911 frame to mount a locking block similar to the Beretta Px4 Storm (using the original slide release) and I'd focus my attention to the slide and barrel. For all the parts of the frame, magazines and sights I'll try to stick with the 1911 design for parts interchangeability and aftermarket appeal for the customers.
^^^^ = outstanding idea.
I've sometimes wondered by someone doesn't come out with a pistol similar to the 1911 in feel, but without the barrel bushing, swingling link, grip safety, and grip screw bushings. Really, a simplified 1911-type design that retains the same feel and user controls but with less parts.
I've sometimes wondered by someone doesn't come out with a pistol similar to the 1911 in feel, but without the barrel bushing, swingling link, grip safety, and grip screw bushings. Really, a simplified 1911-type design that retains the same feel and user controls but with less parts.
DannyB1954
New member
I know, but I like a hammer.
It took me a while to figure it out as well. Copy the text you want to quote, then paste it into your reply. Then highlight it with your mouse, then go to the top of the reply box and click on the quote symbol, (next to the #).
As far as plastic boxes, I don't like them. I have a shelf full of them and they slide all over the place when you try to stack them up. How about a laser engraved wooden cigar box? A touch of class I think.
Two magazines is good for me, or sell them at a discounted price at the time of gun sale. That way people who only want one or two are not paying for 3. Those that want 4 right from the get go, get a break.
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Jim Watson
New member
If you want to offer a "kit" with inexpensive holster, magazine pouch, and three magazines in a carry box for the entry level shooter, fine. That will get him into IDPA or such with no more shopping. Put in a pair of earplugs while you are at it.
Cardboard box, two magazines is my idea of bare bones packaging. It worked for my P7 back in the day.
As Jeff Cooper said, an autopistol without at least one extra magazine is not complete.
Then be SURE you have plenty of magazines available to round out an outfit, unlike the Bren Ten debacle. I have my own holster maker but I keep 6 magazines for most guns. Except 1911s where the sky is the limit.
Cardboard box, two magazines is my idea of bare bones packaging. It worked for my P7 back in the day.
As Jeff Cooper said, an autopistol without at least one extra magazine is not complete.
Then be SURE you have plenty of magazines available to round out an outfit, unlike the Bren Ten debacle. I have my own holster maker but I keep 6 magazines for most guns. Except 1911s where the sky is the limit.
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