New Cartridge 357 Ring Of Fire

If you want to be credible while advertising development of a new cartridge, you need pressure data. The Pressure Trace strain gauge system is the most affordable, about $550. You would have to have an exposed barrel gun chambered for the Ring of Fire cartridge, a Contender is the usual testbed.
http://shootingsoftware.com/pressure.htm
 
The nines generally required more than one shot to make more than one hole in an attacker to stop someone determined or doped up. The 357 does this with one shot generally.
It all comes down to what you are comfortable with. As for myself, I'd rather have 12 possible one shot stops, than 5 with a high cap nine.
Click to expand...

There is no such thing as a round that is a one shot stopper. The only way to guarantee a one shot stop is to hit them in the CNS, otherwise known as central nervous system. A few grains heavier and a couple hundred fps faster doesn't guarantee you will be able to solve all your problems in a single shot.
 
I am sorry but looking at the videos and reading the OPs posts I am unimpressed. Watching you pick up brass for half of your video was painful. The only part which was more painful was watching you actually shoot the gun.

I understand it is a sub-compact Glock but the recoil demonstrated in your test firing videos demonstrates that this round will be almost useless as a military or self defense round. Too much recoil too long to get back on target assuming you do not have to load each round by hand. ;) The avg person shooting 40 S&W pushed to its limits find the recoil to be detrimental. IIRC one of the reasons the FBI never went with 10mm was they were unable to train up everyone to shoot the gun accurately taking into consideration the wide variety of people who had the use whatever gun they deployed. I cannot see how your 357 ROF is going to over come that same issue.

I also have to take issue with almost everything you have been saying about the 9mm round, its use by our armed forces and your perpetuation of the myth of stopping power in handguns. Handguns in the modern military are secondary backup weapons. They are not intended for one shot stop shooting. They are designed to get as many rounds on target as fast as possible so that the soldier can get back to their primary weapon or to a better defensive position. They are not an offensive weapon in any form. Stopping power is not their role. Your invoking of the concept makes one question the validity of your conclusions.

Have fun with your development. It seems like you are enjoying the process but I honestly think it is not going anywhere. It is a neat round with high velocity but honestly I don't see its practical application in a self defense or military role. YMMV Do yourself a favor and read Jim Watson's post and find a way to measure the pressure data you are producing. Without this you are missing a huge piece of the puzzle.

PS Don't blow up your hands, arms or face in the process. :eek:
 
I could care less if it's a mass-accepted mil spec or FBI/PD round--the only thing that means to me is costs will be driven down to some extent--until there's a big DoD order and everything disappears off the market. Other than potentially developing a complicated hand gernade (lacking pressure development parameters) I don't see any problems with this.
 
What case is this based on? What pressure are you going for?

Sounds interesting but i'm sure the recoil will be too stout for most. Kinda like the 10mm or full strength .357 loads. The majority of shooters can only handled a limited number of rounds before their wrist starts to feel it.
 
Thanks Beagle45acp for posting the link to the video. After watching it, I definitely understand why the OP didn't want to post that link. Dang, put a tarp or sheet down so you don't have to chase the brass.
 
It still sounds like a lot of "unknown" on pressure? Kind of like a stab in the dark with the hopes that it will work?

I knew a guy who ended up with excessive - way excessive - pressures while developing a "wildcat" cartridge. His firearm blew up. Unfortunately, he's "all thumbs" now.:rolleyes:
 
All

Thanks for the info on testing. I have considered the contender for this platform.
Yes, the earliest videos are painful, but when so much time is spent making the brass, I don't want to lose any. Since these were my first videos, in the excitement of firing the first few times, I made mistakes in shooting the videos...the current tests don't show brass collection or one shot feeds.
I don't care for the nine basically due to it's origin. It's a personal choice. Those who like it, Great! Enjoy! I prefer more than it has to offer...again a personal choice.
The background stop is a turned over tree stump off screen.
The FBI has gone back and forth on the nines since 1982. They like it because it doesn't over penetrate, they don't like it when agents get killed because it doesn't penetrate enough.
This cartridge of mine will give the option of using hollow points loaded down to reduce penetration, or if needed, full power FMJ's...like the old days, when most police carried 357 magnum pistols with 38 spl. for the first few rounds, then full power magnums if needed...in case you can't get back to your vehicle for the rifle or shotgun.
In some other videos, I fire rounds loaded down to just above IPSC standard. Those are smooth and easy to fire.
I do have difficulty firing any pistol at this time, as I have bad tendonitis in my right elbow, effecting my hold on a firearm...but I feel this cartridge is important, and struggle through the pain to test onward.
The answers to some questions are shown in other videos. Watching one and making conclusions on a cartridge in development isn't really getting the progress being made...but I understand.
This is really a blast guys!
Thanks!
Dave
 
Mr. Elliott, if I understand correctly, the cartridge is rimless, not bottle necked and fires a .357 projectile from a large framed .45ACP/10MM sized semi-automatic pistol. If the loaded .357 Ring of Fire cartridge is limited to approx. 1.280 in length for the 38 Super/.45ACP/10mm mag wells, and is not bottle necked, it would seem one would have something very similar to 9X23 Winchester. If a longer front-to-rear mag well and magazine is required, then you're into something like the Coonan. Absent a revolutionary break through in smokeless powders, obtaining substantially higher velocities than 9X23 Win. in a cartridge of similar dimensions would seem to necessitate pressures substantially higher than 9X23,etc. I know that loading a compressed load of slower powder in the .38 Super, 9X23 Win, .357 Magnum,etc. may not produce the higher velocities expected, so I would think that velocities would have to be obtained by use of heavy loads of faster powders generating very high pressures. I may have missed it, but I'm curious as to the parent cased used, and would like to see photos and learn more about the cartridge itself.
 
Sorry, but for me you lost nearly all credibility when you made the statement that the M9 was inadequate for 9mm (I'm guessing the military did at least a little testing:rolleyes:). Regardless of your opinion, of the Beretta and the 9mm cartridge, it might be better just sticking to real facts.

Also you may be running potentially dangerous pressures to develop a cartridge that you are hoping will provide the power of a .357 magnum. It sounds like you are trying to develop a cartridge for the military (correct?), but you are testing it out of a 2" barrel trying to get meaningful velocity data (I doubt all the powder has a chance to burn that quickly).

However as always, YMMV and my opinion is completely worth what you paid for it.
 
No matter where this goes, I can imagine the process is very satisfying. Good luck Dave, I look forward to watching the progress.
 
[QUOTEBillm
Hey Bill,
Did you have any signs of over pressure before the incident? Flattened primers? Burn rings around the primer?
Dave][/QUOTE]

Nope--it was not a overcharge blowup. I was running a 124 at around 1350 with a case full of HS-7. Had the nut slip on the powder bar failsafe rod
and got a light charged case. Fired it during a match. Bullet stopped
just past the first popple hole in the barrel, but it operated the slide enough
to set the trigger. I was wearing electronic muffs--so the shot did not
sound "light".
Leaning out around a wall engaging a target---pulled trigger--click.
Racked in a fresh round---pulled trigger---BOOM!
Split barrel lengthwise, blew slide off of frame. :)


Dave---several people including myself have asked--What's the pressure
on your cartridge? Seriously---if you are going to introduce it as a
commercial item you need to have it tested.
 
The rest of your videos just confirm my earlier comments and no photos of the extracted cases and no pressure data when it is not that expensive to do a custom Thompson Barrel.

The lack of high sales of magnum autos confirms that there is no need for another caliber that most people do not want to endure.

Those of us that shoot true magnums...Desert Industries or .44 Auto Mag as in my case and others know what size of a gun one has to have to be able to handle the recoil and quickly get back on target. Yes not having a mag that will hold 15 rounds is a mini drawback but if I wanted one it really would not be that hard to make one.
 
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