Minimum cartridge trend?

I have used the 7.62x39 for years. I had to build a bolt gun because there were none available. It is really an accurate rifle. I have used the .223 and the .22 HiPower. I know of people that used the .222 and the .22 Hornet. I don't know if it is a trend. It may have not come up in conversation years ago. Lots of people have used what are called "Underpowered" cartridges for a long time. BUT, these people were not hunting power lines or out west. Different areas-different cartridges. We have laurel so thick that tree stands are useless. Close range almost anything works. If you are worried about a blood trail, just drop them on the spot.
 
To the OP- Most of what you're seeing is folks using cartridges suitable to the fad rifle of the moment. While I generally favor heavy hitters, on the 'light side' I have cleanly killed deer with the 40, 45 ACP, 223 and 7.62x39. I really don't care what other people use.
 
I have now shot three deer with the Federal Fusion out of a 20-inch barreled AR15. Last year, I shot a doe through the shoulder at about 10 yards and an 8-point buck in the chest from 80 yards with the MSR Fusion. Today, I shot a doe through the shoulder from 50 yards using the standard Fusion. Both does were shot on the run in an open field, and both piled up as soon as they were hit. There were quarter sized exit wounds both times in the ribs, but there was very little bleeding from them. When the buck was shot, he turned to his right, staggered about 10 yards and fell over. Although there wouldn't have been a blood trail from any of them, it wasn't needed. The bullet really tore up the insides. I couldn't tell that there any performance difference between the two Fusions.

I have killed a lot of hogs with the 65 grain Sierra Game King and those were also mostly one shot affairs. I shot them in the butt, the mid-section, and through the shoulder. It didn't matter, they all died right there, or shortly there after. Modern bullets make all the difference.

I like ARs. With the exception of the Bushmaster Carbon-15, I have found them to be accurate, reliable, durable, and easy to carry and shoot.
 
Well, I am an average shot. I try to make the best shot I can, but it doesn't always go exactly where I intended.

The best shot I have ever seen in hunting conditions has made a bad shot or two over the last 40 years.

If you run across the buck of you lifetime in less than optimal conditions and you had just as soon have a 223 as a 270 or 30/06 you are nuts IMO.
 
In such a case, you let it go. You are probably not a bow hunter. I have been out with the bow and let a few really big deer go because it was a dicey shot. Have done the same thing with a rifle. I have shot a lot of moving and running deer, but if does not "Feel" right, you just let it go.
 
I hunted with handguns for years, which has some parallels to bowhunting. Tiny rifles offer a distance advantage but still require fine precision- generally slipping one through the ribs directly into the heart. Bottom line- you will (or should) pass shots you could easily make with a serious hunting rig.

If I am dead serious about getting meat or killing a trophy, I'll take my old Winchester 30-06 with the Nikon BDC on it. That puppy will mash them flat to 300 yards with a hit anywhere in the shoulder or neck.
 
Probably 75% of all the hunting I have ever done was with a bow. That includes 20 plus years of bow hunting elk in the Bob Marshall Wilderness.
Most of the trophies (to me anyway) I have killed were with a bow or muzzle loader.

What that has to do with using a 22 caliber for deer is unclear to me.
 
trends

Without a doubt, the popularity of the AR, and the various cartridges that can fit through the AR15 based rifles, are driving that segment of the issue. Folks have acquired an AR.....now what do you do with it?

The .243 has been around long enough now, and is mostly understood by the hunting community regards the need for appropriate slugs, that it has a following much broader than its original users, which I agree, was mostly those considered recoil sensitive.

People may not be smarter, but there may be some truth in the idea that hunters, are to some extent, more knowledgeable than they were 50 yrs ago. I listened to my elders in the 1960-70's condemn the .243 as a deer cartridge, and extol the '06 with heavy bullets as a tremendous killer. Many of these fellows had hunted only their home state with very controlled harvest limits. They could hunt a lifetime and kill perhaps two dozen deer, with the same rifle/cartridge their Dad used, ie, not a very broad experience base. I repeated the mantra............it was all I knew.

But I moved and began to hunt states where harvest limits were more lenient, bowhunted and hunted with muzzleloaders, and began to realize that the old timers were both right and wrong. They just didn't know it. Yes, a .30/180RN RN is indeed grim death on a 150 lb whitetail, but so was a broadhead, a roundball, and a measly 100 gr .243, all when applied correctly.

Surely, if I could figure that out, so could a lot of other folks.
 
"All when applied correctly". There you have it. When the compound bow came in, there were wounded deer running all over the place. Mostly the result of taking ridicules shots. Today, not so much (Around here anyway). As with lighter bore rifles, people did not really know the capability of their equipment. Back when big woods rifle hunting for deer was king in PA, there was a LOT of hit deer running around. Most of that could be attributed to .30 caliber or larger bullets. Anybody that thinks some cartridges are under powered are never able never explain that.
 
I have to take exception to the comment made about Elmer Keith being a fan of miniscule calibers. He was a huge fan of big bore hunting rifles. He once said that the perfect deer rifle caliber started at .33. He derided Jack O'Connor for advocating a .270 for big game. He said that O'Connor's beloved .270 " Is a Damned adequate Coyote rifle" Of course, the bullets available back in the 40's and 50's left a lot to be desired, and that had a lot to do with it.
 
Used to be that everyone criticized the .243 for weak blood trails. But with a good bonded bullet this is no longer the case. These Premium bullets have significantly increased the penetration for this popular cartridge.

Jack
 
Well, if they will give you some extra prime season days for a 22 caliber I will certainly use one. Otherwise I will use something bigger.

All the anecdotal evidence and opinion will never alter the fact that physics is not on your side.
 
Putting the bullet into the boiler room is key for killing deer with any cartridge.

It's when the boiler room is on the other end of the deer that the extra horsepower of the .30-06 / .308 class and up comes in handy.
 
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I have to wonder where some of you people actually hit the deer. The last time I had to use a blood trail, I just plain screwed up the shot. It was a 160 Grain bullet. I eventually got him, but doubt if I would have without snow. If I need a blood trail, I screwed up the shot. I strongly suspect that people taking 300+ yard shots leave dead deer laying because there is no blood trail. The reason that there is no blood trail is that they are looking at the wrong place. Even at short range, things look different when you walk 80 yards towards the last place you saw the deer.
 
IMO,it comes down to results.What is true.
I simply have zero experience with "minor caliber" big game hunting.

Not all deer are the same.There are 80 to 100 lb bucks,and thereare 300 lb bucks. Its not "one size fits all" There are tree stand deer hunts,permanent blind deer hunts,and rimrock deer hunts,shots from 10 yds to 400,and beyond.

Might an Inuit or Athabaskan Alaskan native harvest everything ,incuding moose,with a .223? Or a 30-30? I'm sure they do,successfully.
Would I recommend those as moose cartridges? No.

I understand the appeal of using the AR-15 for a "do everything" rifle.I hope folks will be honest when they appraise the effectiveness of their choice.

If you have success,clean kills without losing game,with your AR,have fun,with my respect.

If you find that you lose game,or require 4 shots,with your AR,please accept what you see as true. Its not getting the job done FOR YOU,and have enough respect for the animal,and yourself,to select a different tool.

Define success as a clean,merciful kill and gear for success.

If a 25-20 has been doing it for you for 26 years,good for you!!

If your AR seems good for 3 out of 5,please get a better tool for the job.

Don't listen to me,believe your own eyes.
 
So far, I'm batting 100% with my AR15 using the Federal 62 grain Fusion bullet. Four deer shot, four deer dead. Three dropped when they were hit, one staggered about 10 yards and fell over. The ranges were 10 yards, 52 yards, 80 yards and 129 yards.
 
The 30-06 has always been a hefty dose of overkill on deer, It is not the case that small calibers have suddenly become effective, they have been for years, but guys trying to be macho insist that you need a 4,000 ft/lbs 300 Ultra Mag to drop a deer which is just laughably stupid to me. My hunting buddy LOVES his 300 magnums, and makes fun of my "little guns" (6.5x55 and 7mm-08) but my little guns have never failed me something that he cannot say for his 300 Mags. You simply cannot compensate for poor shooting by using a bigger gun, shoot what you can shoot well and know where to place it and you could hunt deer with a little 243 with absolute confidence.
 
I am not a fan of "The boiler room" shot. I believe that the farthest I ever had a deer go was with a "Boiler room" shot on a large doe using a 30-30. It threw blood like crazy and just kept going. If I have the time, a neck shot. In a hurry, I try to stay a little high with the vitals shot.
 
I am not a fan of "The boiler room" shot. I believe that the farthest I ever had a deer go was with a "Boiler room" shot on a large doe using a 30-30. It threw blood like crazy and just kept going.
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If it, "kept going", then one can make the assumption that the deer was not recovered and the actual location of the bullet strike was not established. It could have been and was likely to have been a gut shot.

If I have the time, a neck shot. In a hurry, I try to stay a little high with the vitals shot.
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This is an example of the confusion that comes from not using the correct terminology to describe something. To me, the best place to place a shot on deer is in the heart-lung area (A.K.A., "boiler room"). It is apparent that you think that the "boiler room", is not the same as, "...the vitals shot".
 
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