Militias = White Supremacists?
- Thread starter CarbineCaleb
- Start date
In New Hampshire, every able bodied resident (no distinction for gender) above the age of 18 is considered a part of the unorganized militia. There is also the National Guard and provisions for a State Guard to be mobilized in the absense of the National Guard. Any other "militia" some wacko Hitler-wannabe makes up is strictly prohibited by state law.
CarbineCaleb
New member
drinks & ATW: Well that is interesting, so there are also some legitimate militias. Do these guys train at all, or do they exist only on the books?
Speaking of wackos - I'm a chemist, and I once was asked by a nonchemist I knew casually to help him with some synthesis... of plastic explosives. Believe it or not, it didn't dawn on me immediately that this was odd *whacks head*
because he was so familiar to me. So, we're sitting down in the library beginning to go through the synthesis steps and workups when finally the light goes on and I look at my friend and say - wait a minute... why do you want to make plastic explosives??? And he smiles and says... "Oh, just in case..." and I said in case what??? No answer - that was all the help he got. I still don't know exactly what he was planning, but I don't think it was gardening with it.
Speaking of wackos - I'm a chemist, and I once was asked by a nonchemist I knew casually to help him with some synthesis... of plastic explosives. Believe it or not, it didn't dawn on me immediately that this was odd *whacks head*
because he was so familiar to me. So, we're sitting down in the library beginning to go through the synthesis steps and workups when finally the light goes on and I look at my friend and say - wait a minute... why do you want to make plastic explosives??? And he smiles and says... "Oh, just in case..." and I said in case what??? No answer - that was all the help he got. I still don't know exactly what he was planning, but I don't think it was gardening with it.
Many of the nutjobs and "groups" have been or are handled by government. Look at Al Kidya as a prime example; they were created originally by whom? They have previously been active in wars in several countries - such as Serbia and Afghanistan - on whose behalf?
If there was ever a time when the unorganized militia should have been called into Federal service it was three and a half years ago. Yet the Bush administration has done everything and anything but. They have "Homeland Security", an increasing army of Federal agents, expanded FEMA and the other alphabet soups, Americorps, this program, that program - anything but the unorganized militia.
It has been blatantly clear from the start that the Bush administration does not ever intend to even recognize the concept, let alone call it up into service. What they want is control, and the creation and handling of a plethora of "groups", incidents and propaganda precipitates that very well.
If there was ever a time when the unorganized militia should have been called into Federal service it was three and a half years ago. Yet the Bush administration has done everything and anything but. They have "Homeland Security", an increasing army of Federal agents, expanded FEMA and the other alphabet soups, Americorps, this program, that program - anything but the unorganized militia.
It has been blatantly clear from the start that the Bush administration does not ever intend to even recognize the concept, let alone call it up into service. What they want is control, and the creation and handling of a plethora of "groups", incidents and propaganda precipitates that very well.
Re the SFU publication,"The REsistor",as a former subscriber,I found it to be getting more and more racist with every issue.This was due to the publisher and editor.I had gotten so turned off by the rants he published I didn't even save the issues,justthrew them in the trash.As to the idiots in the klan and those who claim to be Nazis,they would have been among the very first to be thrown into the ovens in Hitler's Germany.Just my 2 cents.
Militia
CC;
In some states, there used to be an annual turnout by the militia, that is , everyone who had a firearm, sword, big knife or pitchfork, showed up, there were shooting matches ,knife and hatchet throwing matches and big doses of B.S. by the local pols before a BBQ or the local equivalent was held.
The last ones I have heard of were in South Texas during the border troubles in 1914-1919.
My grandfather was a member of a local quick response team, that is ,some of them had cars, mostly Model T's, they all had plenty of guns and ammo, a special Texas Ranger badge in their pocket, similar to what the T&SW cattlemen range inspectors carry now,they would hear the fire siren in a certain pattern, run the cars to the depot and load up on flatcars to be taken and dropped off as close as possible to where the banditos were reported.
I have no idea how many banditos were shot or captured this way, but gramps and grandma got 3 on the ground and a bunch of blood trails in their corn patch on just one night, gramps used a 97 pump with buckshot and grandma had her '92, .44-40 with 200gr flat points, this was in 1916 at San Juan, Tx.
CC;
In some states, there used to be an annual turnout by the militia, that is , everyone who had a firearm, sword, big knife or pitchfork, showed up, there were shooting matches ,knife and hatchet throwing matches and big doses of B.S. by the local pols before a BBQ or the local equivalent was held.
The last ones I have heard of were in South Texas during the border troubles in 1914-1919.
My grandfather was a member of a local quick response team, that is ,some of them had cars, mostly Model T's, they all had plenty of guns and ammo, a special Texas Ranger badge in their pocket, similar to what the T&SW cattlemen range inspectors carry now,they would hear the fire siren in a certain pattern, run the cars to the depot and load up on flatcars to be taken and dropped off as close as possible to where the banditos were reported.
I have no idea how many banditos were shot or captured this way, but gramps and grandma got 3 on the ground and a bunch of blood trails in their corn patch on just one night, gramps used a 97 pump with buckshot and grandma had her '92, .44-40 with 200gr flat points, this was in 1916 at San Juan, Tx.
CarbineCaleb
New member
drinks: Interesting - and grandma was there with her '92??? No fainting Lily, that one. Yipes, bet your grandpa was extra careful to be chivalrous when courting her 
MicroBalrog
New member
Allegedly. Allegedly is key here. Why exactly has the SFU end up committing zero acts of terror and not getting caught to this day? And how are they a ‘hidden group’ if their periodical is available for subscription?
This is the whole point of trials - innocent until proven guilty.
So how many people did he command and what charges was he convicted on?
And what militias was Mr. McVeigh a member of?
Eh.
Let’s see:
Anti-government manuals? Got those.
Ammunition? Got it.
Those two are not even illegal. I don’t know what laws govern the posession of cyanide, but, from the article:
Even assuming the weapons in question where indeed machine-guns and pipe bombs, the man is not even a suspect in any violent crime. Are we to assume the fellow just owes a bunch of money in NFA tax stamps?
Also see Drink's post.
These are opinions that are "popular" on TFL or these are things that have been posted at least once on a board with thousands of members? There's a difference, you know.
I can honestly say I can't recall the last thread on TFL discussing the threat to the "white race" posed by Mexican immigration. We discuss the effects of ILLEGAL immigration on the UNITED STATES quite a bit, which is entirely different. Generally the only people saying it's an issue of race are the ones who favor illegal immigration for whatever reason and know that they can score points by painting the other side as racists.
Maybe you don't live close enough to Chicago to know this, but the government is not an illegal mafia.
They merely work closely with the Mafia for mutual benefit when it comes to fund-raising and influence-peddling. If you don't believe me, go to ChicagoTribune.com and read John Kass' excellent columns on the "Hired Truck Scandal."
Our entire form of government is based on the assumption that government cannot be trusted.
You've left yourself an awful lot of wiggle room, here. When you say, "small, hidden elite" are we talking about a few Senators, a few Congressmen, and some kingmakers and bureaucrats in Washington exercising inordinate amounts of control over 300 million people? I'd agree with that. You'd have to be pretty naive not to agree with that.
Or are you talking about some Z.O.G. conspiracy? If so, I'd like to see your evidence that such a view is popular here. It isn't. People who post that kind of drivel get ridiculed before they get banned. The ridicule is not encouraged, but the banning is the personal policy of Rich Lucibella and Marko Kloos, and we implement it with a certain enthusiasm.
I'll grant you that one. Of course, in modern America, that's like saying two groups share a belief that pure water conducts electricity.* It's not precisely a true thing to believe, sure, but it would be hard to find someone who doesn't, no matter what group you search.
This is similar. I don't believe there's any conspiracy; I believe there are just way too many lefty reporters, editors and producers. They don't think of what they do as "misinforming" anybody. They think they're presenting the common sense, obvious point of view with which only the wackos would disagree in substance.
*I don't know why that popped into my head, but my high school chemistry teacher used to fill an old, stained fish tank with pure distilled water and stick live wires in at each end, then plunge his hand dramatically into it while giving us a lecture on conduction vs. insulation. Turns out that if there are no minerals or other impurities suspended in the water, it's a decent insulator.
B.S. You're calling people anti-semites and claiming they believe in Zionist conspiracy theories when all evidence is to the contrary. Again, I want to see your evidence that it is commonly believed at TFL that a secret Zionist elite runs the country. This is essentially trolling. Frankly, if you were a fairly new member I wouldn't even have this discussion with you, because I'd have assume troll as soon as you started making these absolutely ridiculous straw man arguments about anti-semitism.
Now, separate the checkpoint issue from the racism, and yes, people see it as a step on a slippery slope. The problem with that argument is that when people yell "slippery slope is a fallacy!" they forget that slippery slope without specific evidence is a fallacy. Citing a slippery slope with specific evidence of the direction and speed with which we're falling down it, and it becomes valid. The drunk-driving checkpoints are themselves a step in a process that began with checkpoints to check for narcotics. Then came the drunk-driving checkpoints. Then came the insurance and safety checkpoints. Now we have checkpoints to make sure you're wearing your government-mandated seat belt. Clearly the drunk driving checkpoints ARE a step in a process which, whether anyone started with this intention or not, is leading to less and less freedom from intrusive searches carried out by police officers who stop people for no specific cause whatsoever.
How being concerned about that issue makes one a racist conspiracy nut, I'll never know. It's a good thing you were here to tell us.
Yes, that is ridiculous. It's not as if there's some worldwide government entity out there that considers itself more important than sovereign national governments and has stated over and over again that it would appreciate it if the U.S. government would confiscate all small arms from its citizens.
Certainly not the U.N. Can't be anything sinister about people who want to help so badly that they've put Syria in charge of investigating human rights abuses and allowed Saddam Hussein to use their sanctions as an excuse to starve women and children in his country, blame America for starving them, and STILL make huge fortunes by selling oil in defiance of the sanctions by pretending he was going to feed those women and children with the profits (but, of course, continue to let them starve while he and the U.N. officals he bribed got richer.)
Nope, nothing sinister about the U.N.
Personally, I view the U.N. as one big, clumsy, pre-adolescent version of Chicago government on the world stage. They don't have the power that Chicago's government wields in Chicagoland, yet, but they're a similar collection of crooks who come together for mutual advantage. More than any sinister conspiracy, you have weird alliances between people who think of themselves as the world's saviors and hard men who see the world in terms of clout and dollars.
In short, I don't know what you wanted to achieve with this thread, but I'm not going to sit here and read such arrant nonsense about TFL's membership. They're not a bunch of racist yahoos and conspiracy nuts. I will now go dig in some fenceposts and wait for you to reply that you never called anyone a racist and I'm overreacting.
CarbineCaleb
New member
Don: I don't know how many posts you'e been reading here in the last month. Perhaps you've never seen posts that say that Mexicans are scum that should be shot on sight; perhaps you've never seen posts that say that the goverment is illegal and is the enemy of the people, and needs to be opposed, by force if need be - I have. if you want, I'll go and find them. I think that you are confusing my question as to whether there are some racist or New World Order conspiracy people on here, with an allegation that ALL TFL members are either racists or paranoid. If you look, I never say anything like that, and if I thought that, why would I be here???
As far as the drunk stops/Zionist conspiracy - the "Zionist" conspiracy comes directly from the White Arayan Resistance pages that I discussed, which perhaps you never read - here is a pertinent phrase from them:
Who are "The Big Gang"? (again from the White Arayan Resistance)
Now... you may not agree that there are any racist and paranoid people on TFL - but I think there are, and if you like, I will take their posts, with names, and put them right alongside virtually identical statements from the Klan, Nazi and New World wacko websites. Don't confuse that, however with my saying that ALL people on TFL are racist or paranoid!
And yes, on the government, I am aware that there are many provisions in our laws designed to protect our citizens against what could otherwise become an overly repressive government that is actually the enemy of its people. That's good - it can happen I would say though that such laws are not de facto evidence that our government is overly repressive and the enemy of its people.
Further, on government, in my view, this country is a big one, with many diverse ideas and interests. Even if the government were made up of 100% ideal, honest and wise people, much better than all of its' citizens - almost any piece of legislation that came out would be in conflict with the ideas and interests of a significant part of the country. That's just an unavoidable fact, and I think that many people are just blissfully unaware of that - and assert instead that any piece of legislation they don't agree with is the result of corruption or an evil "other".
Yes, I know there exist dishonest people in our government, who sometimes pursue self-interest to the detriment of national/state/city interest. In fact, in business, there exist dishonest people that pursue self-interest to the detriment of company interest - happens all the time. And there are also people who have no job, either in government or business, who are dishonest and pursue self-interest to the detriment of their neighbors. There are individuals who are dishonest who sometimes pursue self-interest to the detriment of family - again, happens all the time. My message here, as I have said elsewhere is that companies and governments are actually all made up of individuals. Companies and governments, or any other organizations are not inherently "evil".
I don't like racists. I don't like violent conspiracy theorists - if you think that position makes me ineligible for TFL membership, then so be it.
As far as the drunk stops/Zionist conspiracy - the "Zionist" conspiracy comes directly from the White Arayan Resistance pages that I discussed, which perhaps you never read - here is a pertinent phrase from them:
Who are "The Big Gang"? (again from the White Arayan Resistance)
Now... you may not agree that there are any racist and paranoid people on TFL - but I think there are, and if you like, I will take their posts, with names, and put them right alongside virtually identical statements from the Klan, Nazi and New World wacko websites. Don't confuse that, however with my saying that ALL people on TFL are racist or paranoid!
And yes, on the government, I am aware that there are many provisions in our laws designed to protect our citizens against what could otherwise become an overly repressive government that is actually the enemy of its people. That's good - it can happen I would say though that such laws are not de facto evidence that our government is overly repressive and the enemy of its people.
Further, on government, in my view, this country is a big one, with many diverse ideas and interests. Even if the government were made up of 100% ideal, honest and wise people, much better than all of its' citizens - almost any piece of legislation that came out would be in conflict with the ideas and interests of a significant part of the country. That's just an unavoidable fact, and I think that many people are just blissfully unaware of that - and assert instead that any piece of legislation they don't agree with is the result of corruption or an evil "other".
Yes, I know there exist dishonest people in our government, who sometimes pursue self-interest to the detriment of national/state/city interest. In fact, in business, there exist dishonest people that pursue self-interest to the detriment of company interest - happens all the time. And there are also people who have no job, either in government or business, who are dishonest and pursue self-interest to the detriment of their neighbors. There are individuals who are dishonest who sometimes pursue self-interest to the detriment of family - again, happens all the time. My message here, as I have said elsewhere is that companies and governments are actually all made up of individuals. Companies and governments, or any other organizations are not inherently "evil".
I don't like racists. I don't like violent conspiracy theorists - if you think that position makes me ineligible for TFL membership, then so be it.
We had a poster ride through another gun site about six months ago whose schtik was to scream "racist" any time anyone said anything about immigration. He spent considerable time digging out "proof" those who opposed "immigration" (legal or otherwise) was a racist. It got pretty bad because eventually he was banned to the ether gulag. What was so ugly about his approach was that if effective cut off all discussion of a serious problem because certain code words by necessity had to be used in the debate.
While your observations are interesting, I would hate to see the same thing happen here. I've had the same suspicions as you. And yes those who opposed all things second amendment will use the presence of those on this board as proof all second amendment supports are racists. Can't avoid it, but we can offer cogent argumentation without resorting to the usual name-calling.
Debate is good. Debate sharpens one's own belief. Debate is American. Worrying about racists populating this and other second amendment supporting sites is counterproductive.
While your observations are interesting, I would hate to see the same thing happen here. I've had the same suspicions as you. And yes those who opposed all things second amendment will use the presence of those on this board as proof all second amendment supports are racists. Can't avoid it, but we can offer cogent argumentation without resorting to the usual name-calling.
Debate is good. Debate sharpens one's own belief. Debate is American. Worrying about racists populating this and other second amendment supporting sites is counterproductive.
CarbineCaleb
New member
Waitone: I don't know if you read through all these posts in this thread - I suspect not.
If you read through them, there are basically 3 types:
- the first are people who say that extremist militias do not exist, and that they are all good, and I am either paranoid, or have only been brainwashed by the mind controllers of the media
- the second are people who agree that there are some real problem militias, and they don't say real complementary things about them, actually, rather like me
- the third are people who point out to me examples of legitimate militias that exist along with the extremist militias - and I ask them for more information.
If you read through them, there are basically 3 types:
- the first are people who say that extremist militias do not exist, and that they are all good, and I am either paranoid, or have only been brainwashed by the mind controllers of the media
- the second are people who agree that there are some real problem militias, and they don't say real complementary things about them, actually, rather like me
- the third are people who point out to me examples of legitimate militias that exist along with the extremist militias - and I ask them for more information.
It appears to me that if a group of people where to get together, let's call them constitutionalist, who believe in the preservation of our rights. That accept the declaration of independences mandate that a people is "charged with overthrowing tirrany", and they organize, it will not be long before they are labled extremist, racist militia, non conformist, white supremist, or some other derogatory name. This the media has a field day with, and the FBI makes sure of it. Then those who only get thier news from the same tv channel everynight at 6:00 go out and vote.
Don't get me wrong these stupid racist radicals do exist, and they love to call themselves a militia. I would rate them with nothing more than common criminals.
The words "United States of America" contain no reference to racism, only responsability.
What is the answer?
Don't get me wrong these stupid racist radicals do exist, and they love to call themselves a militia. I would rate them with nothing more than common criminals.
The words "United States of America" contain no reference to racism, only responsability.
What is the answer?
CC - The membership here at TFL is made up of people all across the united states, as well as a portion who reside in other countries.
It only makes sense that this cross-section would mirror that which you would find if you were to pigeon-hole the entire global population into "groups" (i.e. racists, "rednecks", conservatives, liberals, men, women, gay, straight, anti-gun, pro-gun, anti-government....etc).
There are people that fit each category. This is nothing new, nothing unexpected, and very normal.
What I'm saying, is you’re only pointing out the obvious, but doing it with brush strokes that are too broad and not needed to prove your particular point. A point, that is a dead horse in a society that is stricken with fear at the mere mention of racism.
It would trouble me more if the membership of TFL did not have views/opinions of all sorts. It would feel more like a cult.
No one in their right mind would argue that there are bad militia lurking in the corners of America, and abroad (evident by the links in your first post). Likewise, I’m sure there are militias that have more righteous ideals and beliefs and that exist for good.
Starting a thread where you try to equate militia to white supremacists is as stated above, completely redundant. It's common knowledge that the two philosophies intertwine. Again, you’re pointing out the obvious. So obvious in fact it makes me wonder what your purpose may be. It can’t possibly be to expose some new trend taking over America…
Therefore, it leads people to presume, that your objective is to get into a heated debate with members of this board who feel that your generalizations are unjust.
It only makes sense that this cross-section would mirror that which you would find if you were to pigeon-hole the entire global population into "groups" (i.e. racists, "rednecks", conservatives, liberals, men, women, gay, straight, anti-gun, pro-gun, anti-government....etc).
There are people that fit each category. This is nothing new, nothing unexpected, and very normal.
What I'm saying, is you’re only pointing out the obvious, but doing it with brush strokes that are too broad and not needed to prove your particular point. A point, that is a dead horse in a society that is stricken with fear at the mere mention of racism.
It would trouble me more if the membership of TFL did not have views/opinions of all sorts. It would feel more like a cult.
No one in their right mind would argue that there are bad militia lurking in the corners of America, and abroad (evident by the links in your first post). Likewise, I’m sure there are militias that have more righteous ideals and beliefs and that exist for good.
Starting a thread where you try to equate militia to white supremacists is as stated above, completely redundant. It's common knowledge that the two philosophies intertwine. Again, you’re pointing out the obvious. So obvious in fact it makes me wonder what your purpose may be. It can’t possibly be to expose some new trend taking over America…
Therefore, it leads people to presume, that your objective is to get into a heated debate with members of this board who feel that your generalizations are unjust.
Fred Hansen
New member
Our local community is about 60% marxist/socialist with a smattering of Agro-Americans (some white, some wheat) here and there.
Our local Militia motto is: "Love Each Other, Or We'll Kill You!"
Our local Militia motto is: "Love Each Other, Or We'll Kill You!"
MicroBalrog
New member
Carbine: So you believe that all private militia groups are violent racists?
Also I note you ignored/didn't see my last post. Oh well...
Also I note you ignored/didn't see my last post. Oh well...
maybe he had a bad woodchuck problem?
hrmmm.. I beleive it would seem the wording was a well organized milita.
the milita is not a new concept....in Mass each town was to have a milita in 1645. militas were formed and usually were under the control of some form of local or state government. which had a set of rules that each memebr had to adhere to.
a militia that answers only to itself and not the people in some way....bad idea.