Martial arts tailored to modern carry?

Jerry, your points are well said and valid. It's very unlikely that non military or LEO will need to use their weapon. It's a 1% kind of thing, but it's the 1% you can't get wrong.

I know for me it's both a learning/enjoyment aspect as well as good training. I've been training in some form of martial arts, sport etc... for so long that it's foreign to me to not train. I'm not interested in creating some sort of fighting style that incorporates a pistol, more of a how do I quickly and forcefully create the space and time for me to engage a weapon.

If I'm put in a bad spot, can I survive long enough to get to my weapon while grappling with an attacker? Can I get to secondary gear like a knife, oc spray etc... while in a physical confrontation? Can I win a fight quickly and decisively without my gun if I can't or don't want to use it? Am I prepared mentally for physical confrontation? These are all the kinds of questions I ask myself when I evaluate how I'm training.

I don't have the time, talent or resources to be the best in the world with a defensive pistol or any sort of martial art, but neither do criminals. They are usually criminals, because they aren't very motivated and even a small bit of training is a huge edge when dealing with an untrained attacker. Just knowing how it feels to move a resisting opponent, sense balance and weight shifts and use them to your advantage is a huge deal. Knowing that it takes up to 8 seconds to pass out from a blood choke and how to defend chokes and how restrain people is a big deal. I'm no bad ass master of fighting, but I know how to handle myself better than 99.9% of people and that's the best I can do.

Plus, it's FUN to train!:D
 
I get the impression some are preparing for a high probability threat that would require them to fight and shoot.
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If and when an attack happens, it (most probably) won't be at 7 yds with a stationary target like on the shooting range. It will likely be at bad-breath distance and require some type of hands-on contact.
My own observations and experience indicates that if one stays away from bars and other potentially trouble spots he has a better chance of getting struck by lightning than being attacked.
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I just do not understand why they think there is so much danger all around them. I don't consider that a shooting somewhere puts me at risk if I pay attention to where I go, and what I do.
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Looking at the headlines, people get attacked in 'safe' areas constantly. Just because you don't go to trouble spots doesn't negate that they often times come to where you are.

Malls, schools, churches, office buildings, etc are not usual 'trouble spots'. Neither are most homes, but bad things happen at these places too.

Again, look at the world around us. Sure, I live in a relatively low crime area. But when violence comes, it can happen anywhere and with little warning. There is a thread in this forum about an attack on a bus if you haven't read it yet.

So, yes, I spend extra and take all the training classes I can afford as extra insurance for myself and family. I also take precautionary steps to avoid lighting strikes, to use your example.

Some people don't really 'get it' until after a terrible event happens to them or a family member. Sadly some still don't get it even after such an incident.

Read my signature line. then read it again.

I truly hope you will open you eyes to the very real possibility.
 
Thanks, irish52084,
I cannot argue with your view, and I do know that many enjoy the martial arts just for the skill developed, and the physical development. My son started the martial arts when he was about 6 years old, and continued until recently when he was in his late 40s. Body building was and is an important part of him for both conditioning and stress relief.

There is no question that there are scenarios that would require those skills and maybe along with a SD handgun or knife.

Smince, although attacks do occur in Malls, schools, churches, office buildings, etc which are not usual 'trouble spots, if one considers the numbers of people and the hours spent in them the odds are truly miniscule, and unless there is a history of attacks there I don’t give the danger much thought. If I lived in a city where gangs of teens or young gang bangers gathered in malls, etc then I would make sure I was armed if I needed to go there.
But otherwise there is not a 1 in many thousands chance you will get attacked. I do not know a single person who has ever needed to fight off an attacker any place. Most people I know, including retired military and LEOs do not see the need to carry, and they are senior citizens who have lived a long time without needing either martial arts or firearms.

If you just want to train and prepare for a one in many thousands probability then that is fine, and I won’t argue with it. However, I am convinced that the fears of attack are greatly exaggerated, and not worth spending much time being concerned.
Since I just like guns, and nice holsters and belts, I do have several carry guns, and do carry most of the time. I never practice “bull’s eye” shooting but always shoot after drawing from the holster. I have no thought I will need a fast draw, but just enjoy such shooting.

Anyway, mostly I was just curious, and I do appreciate the replies. I agree if one never needs to act in SD he will not have lost anything, but will have enjoyed the time spent. Of course if one is injured in the martial arts he may suffer some pain in later years.:D

Regards,
Jerry
 
Both. I recognize that there is pleasure in the shooting sports, and shooting in general. Also that some enjoy the martial arts.
My wonder comes from the SD aspect of combining both shooting and martial arts. I get the impression some are preparing for a high probability threat that would require them to fight and shoot.
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I have been in the position where the only thing that gave me time to draw was having a shopping cart. With out the cart I would have been hands on with a guy using a knife. I would have had to disarm the guy or create space. Either way I would have been going for my gun after the initial physical altercation. With space he can close in. If he is disarmed and concious he can keep trying or rearm.

It isn't probable that it will happen to a person. It isn't probable that a person will ever need a gun for defense. However, somebody has to fall on the wrong side of the bell curve. I've been there a couple of times. I like to be ready incase it happens again.

I don't consider that a shooting somewhere puts me at risk if I pay attention to where I go, and what I do.
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A guy with a knife tried to rob me leaving a bix box store in the middle of the afternoon with a parking lot full of cars. Where should I be any safer? There was traffice less than 60 feet away and I was in the middle of a traffic lane. It wasn't a "bad neighborhood" or the "wrong time" of day. It was a matter of a criminal that was desperate and creative trying to take my money and probably my life.

The shopping cart gave me time to get to my weapon. It didn't stop him. When he saw I wasn't going to give him the money he tried to advance with the knife. Staring down the barrel of a 3" .38spl changed his mind.

Self defense isn't the center of my life. My family is the center of my life. That is why sd is a close second. It is my duty to provide materially, mentally, and emotionally for my family. To do that I have to be able to keep myself alive if something happens.

It is also my duty to protect my wife and child. So, I train in the use of self defense and work to stay in decent shape. I also have to be mentally prepared and understand that criminals don't play by our rules. They don't live up to our expectations. If they think they can strike they will. They are predatory animals that will strike when they believe they have the chance at success.

You can take all the precautions you want. They will lower the chances of something happening. Nothing eliminates the chance though. So, I decide to stay prepared.
 
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Most people I know, including retired military and LEOs do not see the need to carry, and they are senior citizens who have lived a long time without needing either martial arts or firearms.
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I know many current LE who don't feel the need to carry off-duty. And they should know better.

Looking at what the PD or .Mil does off duty or retired is a lot like looking at the political views of movie and rock stars: it is just their opinion and does not necessarily reflect what is good for myself, family or the general population.

Carry on in your blissful state and I truly hope you never need those skills that you see no need for.
 
I will say only one thing. Be careful with your carry rig. Some of them can easily become the "handle" by which you get tossed around in close combat. Certain types of shoulder rigs are notorious for this.
Believe me, a good shoulder throw is a fight ender, as most people do not quickly recover from that far of a drop. I love Krav Maga and my Mantis (Since childhood wushu has been a part of my life.), plus the LINE and MCMAP the Marine Corps taught me.
Nothing, no martial art, including a firearm, is the "end all, be all." I see my H2H training as another tool in my toolbox, along with, and complementing, my knife, pistol, and rifle skills.
As an intelligent human being (You do elect to better protect yourself via firearms, so if you are reading this, you qualify. :D ) learn all you can and adapt it for you. Size, speed, body type, reflexes, and aggressive qualities (the intangibles of a fighter) vary from person to person. What works for me may (or may not) work for you.
Thinking about close combat when selecting carry gear is just smart thinking to me. Just as picking a size/caliber you can EFFECTIVELY use (and conceal) is much smarter thinking than getting the largest "hand cannon" you can find. I am no expert, I will never claim to be, but I do THINK. Ultimately, the MIND is the best weapon.
 
I intend no offense, but have to wonder when so many spend so much money and time to take course after course to prepare for something that has about as much liklihood of happening as being struck by lightning
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Without adjusting for exposure to the risk due to behavior, it appears that you are 3300 times more likely to be a victim of violent crime than to be struck by lightning (2009 FBI violent crime stats, NWS report on injuries from lightning).

Your risk in any year of being struck by lightning is about 1:775,000. Your risk of being a victim of violent crime in any year is about 4:1000.

Your lifetime risk (80 yrs) of being struck by lightning is about 1:10000

Your lifetime risk (80 yrs) of being a victim of violent crime approaches 1:3

Your risk of being hit by lightning can be almost entirely mitigated. In contrast violent crime can hit you anywhere at any time, it is most likely to catch you unaware and unprepared precisely where you believe you are the safest.
 
[Your lifetime risk (80 yrs) of being a victim of violent crime approaches 1:3]

The statistics evidently do not take into consideration where you live, and how you live. I know a lot of folks in the 80 year range, and not one that has ever been a victim of a violent crime. I have to reject that statistic. If one lived in a ghetto it would be different, but not in average neighborhoods. In a ghetto I suspect that the odds are pretty great that you will be a victim, because that is the way the gangs operate.

However, statics aside, and I may have overstated the lack of danger, the danger is so small that I have never known anyone who needed either a gun or martial arts for defense unless they frequented bars or other places and at night.

I know of folks who take every course they can find. If they want to spend money and time then have at it. But the odds of needed it to save yourself or family are miniscule.
I think it is either a sport or maybe some macho thinking. Either is OK with me.

As I reflect on this, I don't know anyone who has been struck by lightning either.:D

Regards,
Jerry
 
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I've been working on a lot of retention techniques for guns, both with and without a knife. I don't carry, because I don't have a reason to in my mind, and I don't have a handgun at the moment. Most of what has been mentioned is what I would have said, there's not much out there that I have seen. I do it for fun, and for the knowledge.

Personally, I am far more worried about a threat at close distances than I am at range. Mostly because it's far more likely to be at close range, after an argument or some other situation I've likely been dragged into. To me a gun is to be used against a gun at ranges that allow this. I find it's more effective to worry about getting cover than shooting back. Call me stupid, but I don't think carrying a gun for defense makes you smarter than anyone else.
 
I hesitate to point out that the plural of anecdote is not data.

Your personal experience notwithstanding, my point is simply that investment of time, energy, and coin to gain some confidence in being able to respond somewhat appropriately when victimized is not clearly a foolish investment.

I presented the odds since that was how you started your characterization of the risks involved. As I stated above, the odds do not account for effects associated with exposure time. Some folks clearly are effectively at zero risk of lightning strikes (simply because they're always inside), while others enjoy a much higher risk.

The bigger point, is that while you can clearly make choices that affect your risk of being a victim of violent crime, it is not at all clear that you can reduce that risk to the same level as that of being struck by lightning. Effectively, there is NO place that is free of crime.
 
ATG Worldwide in Northeast Ohio offers a Personal Defense course. It is taught by a Navy SEAL(16 years active Team member, currently active reserves). It is an excellent class. I took it and learned alot. If you want to travel, or if you live in Ohio/PA ,I highly recommend the course.

There website is www.atgworldwide.us
 
"Reality won’t care what your favorite skill is, or if you’ve never practiced the skill you need right then!" - Dave Sauer, Suarez International Instructor
 
I guess some prefer donuts and tv to a workout and some training... There are much less applicable things people prepare for. I really dont understand this anti-preparedness sentiment.
 
zombieslayer, I suspect in some cases it's one of those, "I can't do this due to physical iimitations, but don't want to admit it to myself, so to ease my own mind I'll downplay the possible importance or utility of such training" things.
 
might want to look at silat - I know they have a lot of use w/ bladed weapons, and a little bit even of firearms. Also disarms for bladed weapons and firearms, etc.
 
My best friend trains hard at judo. Hes a brown belt. He stands 5 feet tall and weighs a buck ten. Ive seen him defend himself using judo. Muscle memory is the key to applying sd techniques of any kind.
 
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zombieslayer, muscle memory is key in most any physical endeavor. Another factor, which people often disregard, is the value of simplicity. IE, flashy techniques are mostly for show. The things that work best are usually the simplest. This is most likely due to the ease of repetitive training with the simpler techniques.
 
Simple is good, because it usually implies economy of motion, efficiency, speed and ease of training. That's probably why versions of the single and double leg takedowns are so common in many martial arts.
 
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