Brakes are absolutely control devices, much like the steering wheel and steering system are control devices. Brakes are used to control speed! It is that simple.
manual safety is unnecessary?
- Thread starter breakthrough
- Start date
- Status
Brakes are absolutely control devices, much like the steering wheel and steering system are control devices. Brakes are used to control speed! It is that simple.
OldMarksman
Staff
Posted by str8tshot:
Human error, for the purpose of this discussion, includes the pulling of the trigger by foreign material in the holster or by pressing the gun into a damaged holster.
One way is to adopt the New York trigger for the Glock--gives a higher pull weight. Some of us do not shoot well with them.
Another is to use a DA/SA trigger. That's what I see in most of the police holsters around here. That, of course, creates other problems.
Another is to add a safety switch. The one on my M&P was easy to use, but it had a tendency to disengage in the holster. The one on my SR-9C was much better in that respect but I failed to disengage it--one time. That was enough for me.
The grip safety on my XD-S will prevent a trigger pull as long as it is not depressed, and its you are gripping the gun, you cannot fail to disengage it.
It is not totally fail safe, but it is far more effective than not having one.
We are not discussing mechanical failure. We are discussing human error and how it can be addressed through system design.
Human error, for the purpose of this discussion, includes the pulling of the trigger by foreign material in the holster or by pressing the gun into a damaged holster.
No, but it is possible to address the effects of inadvertently pressing the trigger. You can keep the pull from firing the gun, or make it a lot harder .
One way is to adopt the New York trigger for the Glock--gives a higher pull weight. Some of us do not shoot well with them.
Another is to use a DA/SA trigger. That's what I see in most of the police holsters around here. That, of course, creates other problems.
Another is to add a safety switch. The one on my M&P was easy to use, but it had a tendency to disengage in the holster. The one on my SR-9C was much better in that respect but I failed to disengage it--one time. That was enough for me.
The grip safety on my XD-S will prevent a trigger pull as long as it is not depressed, and its you are gripping the gun, you cannot fail to disengage it.
It is not totally fail safe, but it is far more effective than not having one.
There are no absolutes. You go with the best you know. You cant know, unless you try. I at least try. How far have you taken it, with anything you use? Do you vet it, or run to the gun boards, to see what you should think?
So what would that be?
I agree, but it seems to me, its more about rumor and "I heards", than it is about actual incidences. Im not saying they dont occur, just that the rumors tend to blow things way out of proportion.
Of course there is, as there is with anything.
Ive carried and used all manner of things, in all manner of ways, for close to 50 years now, including scarier things than Glocks, and knock on wood, I havent had a problem. Could it happen in the next 60 seconds, absolutely, but as of right now, the percentages are in my favor, its not as likely.
Exactly, the whole point of the test, to push the limits, so you know what the truth is, and whats likely BS.
How else would you vet something?
That may be, and Im not saying its a perfect test by any means, but at least I tried, so I can prove to my self, what is likely to be an issue, or not. Am I to assume you do the same, with anything new you might play with, so you too know where you stand?
Simply stating what Ive seen as to those in general. In any of those cases, training, or lack of it was the issue, was it not? The guns did not malfunction as far I ever remember hearing.
The point is...with a Glock, the shooter has to put his finger inside the trigger guard in order to disengage the safety --- Though I've had a couple of ND's with my 1911 at the range, buy having finger pressure on the trigger while flicking off the thumb safety.
But during a draw with my pistol, or bringing a rifle up to my shoulder...I usually flick the safety off, before I'm in a position to fire --- But I still have the option to keep my finger outside the trigger guard, until the intent to fire.
But during a draw with my pistol, or bringing a rifle up to my shoulder...I usually flick the safety off, before I'm in a position to fire --- But I still have the option to keep my finger outside the trigger guard, until the intent to fire.
Ive had grip safeties on 1911's cause the gun not to fire when I wanted it to fire because of a bad grip. That to me is a detriment if I were to need it for real.
Assuming that a mechanical safety will always keep you safe is a little foolish, dont you think?
Why was your finger on the trigger before the safety was off in the first place?
And youre giving "us" grief about a trigger safety on the trigger of a Glock?
"Usually", eh?
Evil Monkey
New member
YOU DONT DO THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's a drop safety! When you want to fire a glock, you just pull the trigger! That's it! You don't press the little tab on the trigger to "disengage" it! EVER! That's not how it was designed!
Well why the hell were you putting your finger on the trigger if you weren't going to shoot yet?
It's not an option. You don't rest your finger on the trigger unless you have decided immediately to shoot.
..........and people want constitutional carry......are you kidding me?
I told you I had a couple of ND's...lesson learned. Tell me of one shooter --- whose had a decent amount of trigger time --- who hasn't?
If I'm hunting or target shooting with a rifle or pistol, with an intent to fire...I'm ready to crack off a round as soon as I'm in a position too fire.
With a policeman treating a suspect with not an intent to fire on him at the moment...he better have his trigger finger outside the trigger guard, if he or she is not using a double action revolver or pistol.
Sorry...I'm just not a Glock guy.
Cheers,
Erno
If I'm hunting or target shooting with a rifle or pistol, with an intent to fire...I'm ready to crack off a round as soon as I'm in a position too fire.
With a policeman treating a suspect with not an intent to fire on him at the moment...he better have his trigger finger outside the trigger guard, if he or she is not using a double action revolver or pistol.
Sorry...I'm just not a Glock guy.
Cheers,
Erno
Last edited:
Evil Monkey
New member
8,500rds here, never had an ND. Finger off the trigger on any firearm, until ready to shoot. Always follow the rules, NO EXCEPTIONS.
Even if he did have a DA revolver or pistol, NO EXCEPTIONS. EVER.
FrankenMauser
New member
I replied on page one, should you care to reference my response.gyvel said:
Cheapshooter
New member
Ain't what the GLOCK COMPANY says 'bout it!
Here is Glock's own diagrams showing the parts, and how they work in all three safety systems involved.The only thing the "thingie" in the trigger has to do with the drop safety is that it must be pressed to releast the trigger which then deactivates the drop safety as it moves.
https://us.glock.com/technology/safe-action
Last edited:
Evil Monkey
New member
I don't care what Glock says. Whoever wrote that crap is getting their terminology mixed up. Glocks technically have three drop safeties, including the "trigger" safety they described.
my point earlier is that Erno86 thinks or implies that a Glock "trigger safety" is used the same way a 1911 is. It seems he was implying that when you draw a Glock, you pull the tab on the trigger before you have decided to shoot. That is insane.
Last edited:
Cheapshooter
New member
Try looking at the llink I included. But I guess if you know more than the people WHO DESIGNEED THE GUN, you really don't want to!
Evil Monkey
New member
I did click the link and read it all.
For the "drop safety" description, they say the "cruciform rest on the shelf". That means when the pistol is dropped magazine-end down, the trigger bar/sear can't "dip" and release the striker.
-trigger bar design is for when the pistol falls magazine end downward.
-firing pin block is for when the pistol falls muzzle side downward.
-trigger safety is for when the pistol falls back-end downward.
All three are drop safeties.
\
I'm not talking about a 1911. The grip safety on that doesn't block the sear anyway.
And the only way I could see you having a bad grip that did not activate the grips safety were if you were holding the gun near the bottom of the grip. If you did that on a gun with no safety, you would not be able to reach the trigger anyhow.
Actually, it was just the opposite, I was trying to get as high on the grip as I could. Doing so can often engage the safety.
Another issue Ive had with grip safeties has been, they were inoperable on a couple of guns, and did not work right out of the box. If youre relying on them, ANY of them, then you'd best be checking their function regularly.
One thing I dont get here too is, if the gun is drawn, or in the hand, the safeties were removed/disengaged as it was drawn, as it should be, so are they all not more or less the same a that point?
If dropped at that point, most newer model guns are still drop safe, except maybe if they were a DA gun, and in SA mode. Older SA guns have always been a issue. If anything, those in that condition, and in any context, are even more of a worry than the ones being complained about.
I understand some have issues reholstering, but Ive seen distracted people reholster SIG's without decocking, and 1911's without setting the thumb safety. If you dont make a conscious effort to draw or holster guns with a grip safety differently than you would normally hold them, they too are disengaged, so again, whats the difference? None of that is the guns fault. Its user error, and can, and does happen, to even supposedly trained people.
It all boils down to the user being familiar, and proficient with what they choose or are mandated to carry. None of them will fire (unless faulty), unless you pull the trigger, or cause it to be tripped, doing something you shouldnt.
That is the only way I have seen them fail also. The 1911 in particular was designed to be used with one hand. When a high two hand grip is used, the firing hand is slightly displaced at the back strap. The XD may be configured a bit differently.
- Status