manual safety is unnecessary?

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Just curious as to what you carry with a manual safety that you think is OK to carry without using it?
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this got me thinking (seldom a good sign, ;)), what about the early Colt/Browning guns that only had a grip safety?

And what about the new Remington 51? (is it in limbo?) didn't it also have just a grip safety?

For some reason, I'm slightly more comfortable with a no manual safety pistol that has a grip safety than I am with one that has the trigger tab safety.

And here, I'm talking about when trigger finger discipline is NOT involved.

Drop, or something snagging when your hand is not on the gun. (Hopefully never happens, BUT...)

If a branch, vine, wire, stick, etc., "pulls" the trigger, with a trigger tab type, only one unlikely event (pulling the tab first) has to happen. Force in a single direction only can do this, unlikely, though it is.

With a grip safety, not only does the trigger have to be "pulled" (or pushed) but force in the opposite direction has to act on the grip safety at the same time. This is 2 unlikely events (maybe 3 if you count at the same time), and that seems "safer" to me.

With every loaded firearm there is an element of risk. The gun's design sets a baseline, and how you handle, carry and use the gun is the major modifier.

To beat the dead horse one more time (OP's question) a manual safety is not a necessity to operate a firearm. A lot of people think it is a desirable thing, and a lot of people don't.

No matter if you are pro (manual) safety or no safety, there is some kind of gun out there in every caliber for you. Choose what YOU feel best fits your needs and wants, and enjoy!
 
Just curious as to what you carry with a manual safety that you think is OK to carry without using it?
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It isn't my practice, but it is commonly advocated for Beretta 92 series pistols.

No matter if you are pro (manual) safety or no safety, there is some kind of gun out there in every caliber for you. Choose what YOU feel best fits your needs and wants, and enjoy!
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And be glad that we have choices.
 
I do not carry very often but when I do it has often been a Beretta mini-Cougar 8045F. This pistol has a safety/decocker lever just like the Beretta M9/92FS.

When I carry that pistol I leave the safety on until the gun is holstered, then take it off safety.

The relatively long and heavier DA trigger pull of traditional double action pistol renders it at least as safe from accidental discharges as a double action revolver, or a double action only pistol. Being able to "ride the hammer" with the thumb while holstering provides additional protection from an AD while holstering.

If carrying a striker-fired pistol with no safety is "safe" then surely carrying a TDA pistol with the hammer uncocked and the safety off is.
 
Yes, a safety on a semi auto pistol (especially a striker fired one) is unnecessary, provided the user doesn't press the trigger. Of course that assumes the user will never make a mistake, EVER. Given the fact that thousands of people are accidentally shot every year, and a manual safety that was engaged would have prevented a portion of those (remember the 3 year old who shot his mother with her M&P Shield?), I choose to err on the side of caution. I don't view a safety as a liability that will get me killed. I know the odds of me needing a gun in a life or death situation are much more unlikely than an negligent discharge.

And none of this mattered until Glock convinced the world they were the best gun ever and safeties were for amateurs. And 2 generations of shooters grew up believing it.
 
i'm one of few people for who the HK VP70z is the perfect gun with its staplegun triggerpull and double action only.

in panic situations you do make mistakes. sofar i've always made some kind of mistake in a life threatning situation, thats just nature. but make sure the mistakes you can make are only the less important ones by taking away the risks and making things failsafe.

you can practise 1000 times to take the safety off. but will you take it off in real life situation with 100% stress level?

maybe you'll turn it the wrong way because it wasnt on in the first place?
or you hit the decocker, slidestop or mag release instead and cause even more problems?

a safety button can be very unsafe in such a situation. the gun will be perfectly safe but the user wont be which makes the gun useless.

if you really need to carry with a round in the chamber then a double action only trigger would be the safe option for the gun and the user.

with double action only, you dont run the risk of forgetting to decock the gun when you put it in your holster after you loaded it. and because of the heavy trigger pull you run less risk of accidentally firing when the trigger gets caught on the holster when you put the gun in after you forgot to use the decocker. in panic situation you only have to pull the trigger to fire.

this is why i like guns like the HK VP70z. its striker fired double action only....(almost) nothing can go wrong there.
 
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well, many people do because the holster worked fine on the range but problems occur in stress situation. and there's many people who had accidental discharge while taking the gun out of the holster or putting it in the holster. i know about some police people who had accidental discharge with their police issue holsters. the loop that gout around the grip gets snagged in the triggerguard on some plastic holsters.

people make many mistakes, like bad fitting holsters, amc pacer, buy bieber music...
 
I guess I just think it's funny that those against them will point to the the user forgetting to disengage the safety as a reason not to have one (1 in a million chance of you even using the weapon in a real self defense) yet will ignore the much better odds of an ND due to user error.
 
ND's ARE simply user error. Doesnt matter what kind of safeties the gun has or doesnt.

They also work in both directions.
 
Yes, a safety on a semi auto pistol (especially a striker fired one) is unnecessary,
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You have made a broad generalization here about striker fired pistols, and I think you are only thinking about Glock types.

There are many other "striker fired" pistols where the striker is retained at full cock under spring pressure that a person might carry. They definitely require that a manual safety be applied while carrying.

Not everyone carries a Glock or Glock wannabes.
 
Given the fact that thousands of people are accidentally shot every year, and a manual safety that was engaged would have prevented a portion of those
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And a manual safety that was thought to be engaged, but wasn't also led to many of them!:eek:

14 pages of back and forth, and we still wind up with it being in any case, the user that is the issue.
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Not that we haven't already ten or twelve pages ago!:D
 
Aw, geez - should we close this or have 20 more pages of:

1. I like them
2. I don't like them
3. I hate Glocks
4. I hate 1911s and the safety
5. I will shoot myself or no I won't
6. I will shoot someone else or no I won't
7. Stupid people do stupid thing but some smart folks do also.
8. The safety saved my life when the BG took my gun and then I had a chance to Kung-fu him.
9. I forgot to take the safety off and BG killed me.

Miss any? Did they have safeties on muskets?

I'll add an anecdote (the best evidence for the internet). I was at the NTI and they gave us a great mystery gun stage. That's one where you get a gun you weren't ready for and had to use it.

So in this, it was a Stoeger coach gun. Never fired one. You had to negotiate a shoot house. However, you were wearing a big poncho over your head to simulate being naked out of bed. You had to carry a box off 12 gauge which were mixed slugs and bird shot (for various targets). So off you go facing numerous 3D targets, some of which had a surprise appearance. You had to load this gun, get it into action and then here comes the next target.

Well, the safety comes on when you close it. How did I know that - there was no run through on the gun. Since we were trained folks we were to figure it out. Bang, bang - BG, reload. Oh, crap, safety! Bang - guy is at a distance, figure out what is a slug from a box of mixed. Reload - oops, safety!

One target just surprised me when I was out. As it was close, I just butt stroked the thing. That was ok, we were supposed to fight with whatever we had.

Obviously, this is the conclusive anecdote on the issue of safties if you are not familiar with them.

Those kind of runs are a blast as compared to the square range. You get done with one and you have to be reminded to breathe as you are turning blue.
 
Aw, geez - should we close this or have 20 more pages of:
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Might as well close it. I believe its already started up again elsewhere here.

That way you dont have to wade through 20 pages if for somehow, you didnt get a lick in. :D
 
Yep, this thread is done. As Glenn listed, there is nothing to add to it that hasn't already been said - several times.
 
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