Libertarians pushing for opening of U.S. borders??

tj, it always starts out sort of civil... But then you have your troll types who comes in and stir things up and it always goes bad.

Immigration (illegal) is a touchy subject that does not seem to be one that the membership of this board can discuss in a mature manner.

Carry on!
 
I hear ya, Trip, but I don't think that important issues should be off-limits due to their touchiness.
Ever checked out a "9mm vs .45acp" thread? Now THERE'S a moped wreck waiting to happen! Those guys will fight to the death over that stuff and nobody thinks it's off-limits.
Anyway, point taken. Must.....remain....calm......
 
LMAO tjhands... :D

You definitely one-up'd me as far as controversial threads go ;)

It was the temptation I had after reading this thread which made me post that comment... I'm by no means the poster child for civility but I try. :o

But I suppose we should at least let it go bad before we start censoring...

You win :p
 
Here's a "liberal" solution to the problem. A part of the perceived problem is people coming to this country and getting a free education and/or welfare and such without contributing to the tax base. Why not sic the IRS on people that hire illegals for cash jobs. Instead of calling la migra, call the revenuers. That's almost as good as sharks with frickin' laser beams.

Jim
 
armed_n_liberal said:
Why not sic the IRS on people that hire illegals for cash jobs. Instead of calling la migra, call the revenuers.
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Aww c'mon man if we do that Jammer Six will go out of business. :D
 
You do know there's a middle ground between machine-gunning them and giving them all our money and voting rights?
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Possibly. Not sure how you'd keep them out of the country though when we got free schools and employers who will hire them, unless you use force.
 
As long as the incentives exist, they will come, regardless of how many border agents you hire. Remove the freebies, and the flow will slow down and bring only those willing to work to make their own way. Simple enough.
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werks fer me.....

Why dont we trade some Americans who are riding the freebie wagon in on some hungry for work I want a better way of life immigrants from Mexico.
 
You have a roach problem in your kitchen. Do you:
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Here in Athens, I know exactly what you mean. :eek:

Used to sometimes get 2" long flying roaches in the kitchen when I was a kid and spilled food under the fridge. Now I have a cat that will kill and eat anything larger than a junebug, leaving the dessicated and battered carcasses next to my office chair.

I love legal immigrants. My favorite place in town for anything other than pizza (on that case it's Gabriels) is the Mexican eatery Las Margaritas, and you can tell that they are mostly immigrants there, or children of immigrants.

We all can agree that having people come in and get on the dole is a bad thing. If we cleaned up our welfare state, we'd still see immigrants pouring in, but we'd see more of the good class. Around here I mostly see mexicans working on construction, not yard work. When I need some heavy landscaping done, I'm going to hire some, and pay them damned fair wages too.

If they send money back to their country, whoop-tee-doo. What do you think immigrants have done in the past?

And Jammer, we do grow stronger with each legal, taxpaying immigrant. The kinds who violate the law to be here are also likely to be criminal.
 
Oh, I have at LEAST a dozen other, better reasons to go out of business.

The immigrants I've employed have all made substantial contributions, in so many ways.

We get stronger when an immigrant crosses the border.

The kinds who violate the law to be here are also likely to be criminal.
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Do you have a citation for that, or is it merely your opinion?

Now, no betting, unless you bet with me!
 
Jammer just a question for you.

But before I ask I want you to understand that I do know that immigrants (both illegal and legal) can be very hard working productive "citizens" (using that term lightly). Also they can be very caring individuals who are just doing "what it takes" to put food on the table.

I'm not blowing smoke up your butt, I truely believe that.

BUT :D

My question goes along with this comment:

Heist said:
The kinds who violate the law to be here are also likely to be criminal.
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Now, we know not ALL are coming here illegally to be criminal. I think you and I will agree on that statement. I also know, from your prior posts, that there have been some very good, hard-working illegals that have helped your business, etc, etc. I’d wager to say you thought some or all of the employed illegals were good people.

Considering all of this, lets pan down the west coast to places where the population is predominantly Hispanic. We are talking California, we are talking urban areas, and we are talking gang country. I do not know the exact ratio of legal vs illegal immigrants in gang country, but I would bet that a majority of them are illegal.

OK, so now in our country we have illegal immigrants who are gangbanging and doing horrible things, mooching off society from all the fatherless babies they create for which we pick up the bill. Then you have reports that gangs are possibly working together with Al Quaeda to help them across the border (not sure if this is true, but it's been reported).

I could go on with the negatives. Nevertheless, I am sure you get my point.

OK - so lets weigh the info here. We have the great, wonderful hardworking people that you may be used to employing, befriending, and the like. Then we have the other side, which are the scum of the earth.

Are you telling me, that it is worth leaving things the way they are? Allowing these people to flood into this country illegally at the expense of the scum of the earth coming through along side the people you seem so easy to defend because of their work ethic and cheap wage that save you some coin?

It is not worth it to me. Unfortunately, this is a case where the bad (gang banging BG's) ruin it for the good (hardworking people).

Then, take into consideration that while we can agree that some of the illegal are good, hardworking people, THEY TOO are doing something detrimental to this country, which is sucking our systems dry, by taking advantage of all the freebies.

Now look, I do not mind the ones that come to this country for good reasons with good intentions and who want to be CONTRIBUTING members to society. If I did have a problem with that, I'd have to get a ouji board out and start bitching at my great grandfather as well - we're all immigrants.

HOWEVER – in order for even the good people to come, and stay, we need to do something to fix the system. Not have a blatantly ignorant arrogance like "every immigrant that crosses the border makes us stronger"...... That sounds like a freaking Hallmark card. And frankly, it’s naïve.

You must agree that comment is FALSE, purely based on the fact that for every "good" illegal, there are at least ONE bad illegal. Stronger, obviously, is in the eye of the beholder. Put your eye in gang country, and then tell me how strong you feel you are.

I'm doing my best to try and understand your point of view, but it appears to me that your either ingoring another side of the coin on purpose, or are really just ingorant on the entire topic.
 
Recently around here several bad people have been ehre illegally.

First one comes to mind is a Mexican meth dealer who kidnapped a 14 year old girl, and then raped her repeatedly in a Hazel Dell Motel.

Another, a motorist was killed my an illegal mexican who hit her car..

A wife and husband were gunned down by 3 illegals, 'cause they witnessed these scum breaking into the neighbors house. They were caught becuase they had been injured during the gun fight with these folks who were only defending themselves.

Irony? These guys had Oregon Drivers Liscenses. They were also ALL illegally here. Sounds like the dogs are coming to haunt us now, eh?

And a recent study of WA and OR suggests that 80% of our Meth problem is coming in from MEXICO through ILLEGAL scum.

Legals are fine, they don't cause problems. Illegals do. They are destroying our society.
 
Marko Kloos,

Switzerland has had several languages for a very long time; but with a stable and unified culture and national ideology. At least until recently that is.
How many soldiers do you think it takes to secure 6,000 miles of land border?
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Not very many in practice. With spaced observation posts, aerial surveillance and agressive patrolling the number of border crossers would be reduced to a trickle. The Coast Guard and U.S. Customs does a pretty good job of the coastlines if they are given the resources.
You'd have to put every breathing body in the U.S. Army and the USMC on the borders, including the Reserves and the National Guard, and you still wouldn't have enough personnel to manage the task
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Rubbish. Half the army and half the national guard from each border state.
It is logistically impossible
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It is while the national purse and our military are being used everywhere else in the world except here. We have the resources - and our government is giving them away by the billion; daily.
 
Rubbish. Half the army and half the national guard from each border state.
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They need your expertise in Korea, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt.

That, of course, is after you're done cleaning up the U.S./Canadian/Mexican borders. :rolleyes:
 
No expertise required. Leave Saudi Arabia, Korea and Egypt to their own fate. We do not need them, and the costs are better spent elsewhere.
 
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