Is the "scariness factor" important for an SD gun?

How important is "scariness" for an SD gun.

  • Extremely Important

    Votes: 10 4.7%

  • Moderately Important

    Votes: 45 21.2%

  • Slightly Important

    Votes: 50 23.6%

  • Not at all Important

    Votes: 107 50.5%
  • Total voters
    212
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pizza, you're talking about an irrational fear of spiders,....
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The rationality of the fear plays no part. Fear is fear. If you're afraid of spiders then you're afraid of spiders, it doesn't matter why and it almost never matters if they're big or small or fat or skinny.


I'm not necessarily afraid of dogs but my reactions are going to be very different if I see a Chihuahua running at me versus a pit bull,
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Is it? Are you going to let a Chihuahua go right ahead and bite you but run from a pit bull? I don't think so. You may not react EXACTLY the same but you're going to do whatever you have to do to not get bit.... and that's a situation where there is a DRASTIC difference in damage potential.

For the most part, there is NOT a drastic difference in damage potential from one gun to another. In a lab, maybe, in the mind of a person who's looking down the barrel? No.

Gun! Either means "Oh crap, run!", or surrender or whatever means don't get shot, or it means attack that dude before he can shoot me. He's not going to say "Ha! That's a 380! You think I'm scared of that thing, punk!?" but lay down and cry if he thinks it's a 44.
 
I think that Peetza and I are on the same page, and the argument is not that you should always shoot if you draw, but rather that if you draw, it is time to shoot! All too often I hear people talk about how they keep a shotgun in hopes that the sound of the round getting racked will stop a home invader. Maybe, maybe not. But the only time I'd lock and load (I keep my M4gery with a full mag in place but not chambered) is if I had a darn good reason to believe that my life is in imminent danger. I think we'd all agree that guns aren't for waving around--they're for when you need a gun!

If it is time for a gun, it is time for a gun. Now, if the BG surrenders or runs away at the sight of the gun, great! However, the gun comes out when we need a gun, not threats. How "scary" or "friendly" :D our guns look should not enter into the equation. It is accuracy, speed, and the will to use it that count. And I'm not just saying that because my P64 really isn't that impressive to look at. I don't think we should count on looks to get the job done for us. If you draw, then life and death are on the table. Period.
 
Peetza, although I disagree with you about size of spiders or snakes or dogs or whatever it's not important, you were discussing and irrational fear of spiders, my point was that BG's aren't going to have the same irrational fear of guns.

BG's fear the harm a gun will cause them in the hands of a proficient shooter. A large shiny revolver with a big borehole looks more harmfull than a pink pocket .25, or a NAA .22mag!

I didn't say it's the end all be all or that I would count on it, only that it probably plays a factor. (or moderatly important)
 
BG's fear the harm a gun will cause them in the hands of a proficient shooter. A large shiny revolver with a big borehole looks more harmfull than a pink pocket .25, or a NAA .22mag!

I didn't say it's the end all be all or that I would count on it, only that it probably plays a factor. (or moderatly important)
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My argument is essentially that fear of gun either causes retreat or does not. Size of the gun matters only so far as the gun is recognized as a gun. If the BG recognizes the gun and is afraid enough of getting shot then nothing else matters. They will either surrender or run. They're not going to ask about your level of training (proficiency) or the caliber of the gun (size of the dog) before they decide.

What WILL, almost without question, effect the mindset of the BG is the size of the dog IN YOU. If you look like you're not afraid to bite then it is MUCH more likely to have an effect on the BG than the size of your teeth (gun).
 
..What WILL, almost without question, effect the mindset of the BG is the size of the dog IN YOU. If you look like you're not afraid to bite then it is MUCH more likely to have an effect on the BG than the size of your teeth (gun). .
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I agree with this statement 100%

The rest I just agree to disagree.

For the record I would have no problem carrying a kel-tec, lcp, pm9...insert fav pocket gun here. In fact I've found myself carrying regularly my wifes 2" snub nose .357 (although it's not pink)
 
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Have the will to use what you carry. Be able to present the gun and hit the target. That's ALL that's important with a carry gun.
 
Yes, but the small spider will scare the person who is afraid of spiders just as much as the tarantula because it's not the size of the spider it's THE SPIDER. Believe me, my wife's entire family is arachnophobic (if that's a word). There can be big, juicy nasty spiders or little bity, barely visible, translucent ones.... same reaction.... screaming and running.
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you are right since your wife's entire family every single one will run at the sight of any spider.well that settles it there's no chance Mr. BG will have any different reaction from Mr. GGs Desert eagle 50 than he will a 25 ACP baby Browning.and coupled with this.

For the most part, there is NOT a drastic difference in damage potential from one gun to another.
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I assume you'll be sellin' that 357 sig and getting a Baby Browning since size doesn't matter and there is no drastic difference in damage potential.
 
How exactly would you expect a BG to be scared by a gun that he doesn't think is a gun? If you're scared of spiders, are you scared of a spider that you don't think is a spider? If that's what the OP meant then it's a silly question.
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I guess I should clarify. I used the NAA mini revolver as something of an extreme example. Its diminutive size, small bore, and relative obscurity (yeah, us gun types all know what it is, but it's nowhere near as iconic in the public mind as say a Glock or AK47) may make the gun seem by far less frightening to someone than say a full-sized 1911. The question at hand, I suppose is, an HD or SD situation, does this really matter? Will a somehow more intimidating looking gun make a BG change his mind more readily than something less frightening? Or, does it not matter because BG will either change his mind at the sight of any gun or persist regardless of the type of gun?

For example, at a range session, one fellow negligently pointed a loaded Nagant revolver in my direction. I told em to watch where he was pointing that thing. A few months later, a different follow negligently pointed a loaded AK47 in my direction. That time I ended up yelling at the guy and I'm a very mellow guy that never yells at people. From a rational standpoint, I know either gun was easily capable of doing me in; but I was many, many times more afraid of the Kalashnikov than the Nagant.

That's why I raise the question. On one hand, a gun is a gun, and any gun is capable of killing or doing serious bodily harm, on the other hand it also seems logical that some guns are more "persuasive" than others.
 
Interesting....

... why is it that in fact, a gun is only fired 1 in 20 to possibly 1 in 14 times when a gun is drawn for SD, yet so many people here are convinced that the BG should only see the gun when it's about to fire?

Why do so many people think they can't draw unless it's time to shoot? That's false.

You can't draw unless the threat of the use of deadly force would be justified. To stop multiple assailants, or an approaching BG armed with a baseball bat, or a guy who's threatening you with harm from his leashed but straining pit bull, it would generally be both legally and tactically sound to draw and tell the BG(s) to stop what they're doing and go the other way.

The only scenario where I'd say I'm much more likely to draw and immediately fire would be one when the threat is already on top of me, and the odds are I won't have time to see if the presentation of my firearm had any effect. Such a scenario could include a BG with a gun already drawn and pointed anywhere in my vicinity, or a BG with a knife who is already too close for comfort, etc.

But there are many potential scenarios where the smart money would be to draw, and be prepared to shoot but also prepared to hold fire.

It's both ignorant and dangerous (to yourself and others) to think you have to wait until your only option is to shoot, and to think that any time you draw you must shoot.
 
Mavracer, When we go from arguing the logic to pointless commentary it's my cue to exit the discussion. My point has been made, I'm done here.
 
I'm in the "it can't hurt" camp.

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The idea that there is no difference in a defensive situation between a sub compact and a full size handgun is wishful thinking. There are several advantages to the full size weapon. The sound of discharge is louder. The round entering the perp is bigger and has more wounding potential. "Scary factor" is more random. Some perps, some situations; no effect. Other perps, other situations; can be a big factor.

Compare the psychological effect of a stainless steel .357 magnum with a four inch barrel after dark to that of a black Beretta Bobcat which is almost invisible because of it's small size. I know which one would make me incontinent.
 
I guess to really illustrate if "scary factor" necessarily means anything, what if we're to assume all else is equal?

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Both of these are just .22 rifles. Would a person with the top rifle have a better chance in frightening a BG away simply because the gun looks an awful lot like the most recognized and infamous combat rifle ever designed while the bottom gun looks like something to hunt squirrels with? Or would both be equal because a gun is a gun?

(Not that I advocate .22 cal for HD, it's just an example of 2 guns of roughly equal capability but of very different appearance.)
 
I am not depending upon an assailant having any common sense at all. Nor am I depending upon him taking any notice of, or being intimidated by, my choice of SD weapon.

I do not intend upon deploying it unless I have absolutely no other option. If and when I need to do so, I doubt that he will be impressed by my good taste in SD weapons.

If, on the other hand, he chooses to initiate an incident which justifies lethal force, I hope that he will be depressed by the outcome of his poor choices. :)

I certainly will not rely upon the deterrant factor of my weapon to acheive this.
Although if he is reading this thread, he will be facing a .357, .41 Mag, 45acp or 45LC.
 
None of this is about "depending on" anything to do with the goblin wetting their pants and running away. We know some aren't scared of anything.

Some do run away though, and if a five cent sticker on the end of my ejector rod on top of another ten cents worth of epoxy and a penny's worth of nail polish raises the odds of a goblin freaking out by ANY percent, even less than one percent, it's worth it.

But here's the neat part: when you pull a "cannon" on somebody, you're also pulling out generally more power per bullet. So it's hardly a bluff.

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The ultimate "some idiots ain't afraid of anything" story is the H&K sales rep who had a full-auto police demonstrator rifle in his truck and was attacked by two nutcases with blunt instruments. He stitched a line of full-auto .223 across one chap's path as a "shot across the bows" sort o' thing.

Said "intellectual" then uttered the now-famous words "I ain't afraid of no [bleepety blank] machine gun". Next burst started at his groin and stitched him right up the middle rendering him extremely, exceptionally, unbelievably dead. His buddy of course immediately surrendered.

Which brings us to another point: if you're up against multiple wolves in a pack, rendering the first one VERY dead is a good thing. With top-shelf 357 fodder you sometimes hear reports with phrases like "lung tissue sprayed at least five feet". General Lee once said (paraphrased) "It's a good thing war is so ugly or we'd be tempted to do it more often". If you make the war they brought VERY ugly, downright disgusting, it's likely to end faster. The Gold Dot 125s I carry are loaded up past 1,500fps somewhere by Doubletap...very likely to get real gruesome.

(And yeah, the DA in Massachussets (yikes) tried to prosecute the HK rep and failed at trial. Irony was, the gun was a Ruger police-only model that the rep was demoing as "not as good as his HK" but since it was on top, it got grabbed first and ended up quite the sales pitch...)

Anyways. Absolutely some people won't be dissuaded by anything. NO argument.

That doesn't mean "chase-offs" don't happen, and it doesn't mean we can't max out the odds of it happening.
 
I think that the point that some of us are trying to make is that there should be no time to “scare” the BG away. Not if you’re correct in pulling the gun in the first place. If I go to my weapon it is to kill a BG, not to persuade.

You can yell at him, beg and plead with him to leave, tell him that you have a big scary gun but any information that you give him is a help to him not you or your family.

The question I have is why would you care how scary your gun is?

That’s like asking is there an advantage to scaring an oak tree with your 34” Husqvarna vs my 20"

If I pull my gun it is because I think someone needs to be shot. That's it!

The time that the BG will need to evaluate just how scary my weapon is should rarely occur.

When it concerns SD, a gun is a tool for a serious job not a prop.
 
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