Is the Mosin (91/30) a good survival rifle???

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Wasn't the M1 Garand the rifle at the Frozen Chisin that froze up, and soldiers had to urinate on the operating rods to get the warm enough to work? Maybe I'm remembering something else. Always wanted a Tanker version, too.

I like a smaller, lighter bolt action for a long unfortunate walk in the woods rifle;

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I he for no bad times, but ten rounds in the ready mag plus a very fast 5 in the buttstock doesn't hurt. Spare mags or boxed/bandoliered ammo isn't too bad to carry. Unfortunately, it is not a military rifle, or milsurp. Just what I have. Funny thing is, my go to rifle for a while when I was dirt freaking poor was a Mosin M-38.
 

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To be fair, that was likely a maintenance issue.

The Germans had troubles with their K98k Mausers in Russia.

Lightly lubing with diesel fuel or leaving dry would have helped a lot.

A few winters ago when we had arctic temps here I was out shooting rimfire. A few CCI rounds sqibbed out or just failed to light completely. I never did figure out why.

Neither do I know whether that would extend to center fire.

Regards,

Josh
 
I hate to vary from the Mosin topic, but I have to add something here about Gas Guns freezing up.

ALL GUNS FREEZE UP, Gas, Bolt, whatever.

I ran the AK NG Marksmanship Unit in Alaska for many years, and was responsible for marksmanship training and qualification.

I was also CO of an Eskimo NG Company on the Bering Sea. We did most of all our training in the winter and learned a bit about guns in sub-zero temps.

Mainly, ALL GUNS WILL FREEZE. The trick is not to let them sweat and keep them dry. People tend to take their rifles inside the tent, then when they are taken outside, they sweat and then instantly freeze. Bolt guns included.

So keep them dry. No lube, no oil. If you're going to do some extended shooting, then add a bit of LAW after they warm up, when you stop, clean all the oil/grease off.

LAW is a light weight oil that suppose to keep from freezing. Warm or Cold, blowing snow gets mixed with the non-freezing oil and freezes. Blowing snow doesn't have that effect on cold dry metal.

I've seen every sort of bolt gun freeze up, Model 70s, Remingtons, Springfields and even Mosins. The reason is somebody forget to take the firing pin assembly out of the bolt and clean ALL the oil and grease off it.

I'll guarantee you peeing on a froze up rifle at 40 below isn't gonna thaw it out.

Since few of us here will use their rifle in sub zero combat, we're mostly talking about hunting. So its a few rounds at the most. There is zero reason to use oil or grease on our rifles in sub-zero temps.

Mosin's are good for extreme cold because they are sloppy. The were great for the Native subsistent hunters because they and their ammo was cheap.

But their bolts (if oiled or greased) will free up like anything else.

Row your boat from Alaska to Sibera, check their Mosin's, I bet you'll find the bolt assemblies dry.
 
Kraig,

Right on. Kinda what I was getting at.

Questions:

Have you ever had issues with ammo lighting at low temps?

and

How does this LAW stuff work compared to, say, a light coating of kerosene or diesel?

Regards,

Josh
 
Kraig,

Right on. Kinda what I was getting at.

Questions:

Have you ever had issues with ammo lighting at low temps?
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Depends on the powder, all powder is effected at sub zero temps, some more then others. I haven't found any that doesn't work, but zeros change, as does accuracy (with some powders). A rule of thumb is, for every 15 degree change in temps, the impact changes 1 MOA.

Rim Fire 22s have problems because of the lube on the bullet, not the powder per se.


How does this LAW stuff work compared to, say, a light coating of kerosene or diesel?
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LAW is quite a bit better then diesel/kerosene. I don't use diesel/kerosene on my guns, but I have use diesel in trucks. It sucks in the winter, even here in Wyoming where it only gets down to 20-25 below. You have to put all sorts of additives and then one heck of a battery system to keep them going. I gave up on diesel trucks, even #1 diesel.

Wyoming is like Alaska, what snow we gets blows around all winter and it will stick to anything that resembles oil or grease, then you get problems. Blowing snow gets pretty fine and it will find its way in ever nook and cranny. People get into trouble with bolt guns because the neglect to take the firing pin assembly out of the bolt to clean off all the oils and grease.
 
I don't know what they are using today (or what they are calling it) but when I was in the service (70s) LAW stood for Lubricant, Arctic, Weapons...

Kraigwy is entirely correct, EVERYTHING FREEZES. Also spot on that no lube is better than the wrong lube in extreme cold.

When I was young, deer camp in the Adirondacks often meant thigh deep snow, and uninterrupted weeks of -20F or below temps. Smart guys cleaned ALL the oil from their guns, AND left them outside (protected from the wearther) so they stayed cold.

Another point (one that applies more to full auto weapons) is that in extreme cold, things get brittle. One of the things we emphasized in training was that for machine guns (in particular), when you began firing, to ONLY fire single shots or short bursts, until the gun "warmed up".

The reason was that until the gun warms up enough for the metal to regain a degree of flexibility, things break really easily. Take a belt fed that has been outside for days in subzero and try to rip off a full belt of ammo without warming it up, and odds are very high something will break.

Fire the same gun in the same condition in short (2-3) rnd bursts, a few times, then rip through the belt and the odds of breakage are much, much lower.

Not much of a concern with sporting rifles, of course, but always a slight possibility with very cold steel.
 
The primary points I'm trying to make here are:

1. This was a Mosin thread.
2. This was not a Garand thread.
3. The Mosin is not the best military design in the world.
4. The Mosin is extremely simple in design & operation.
5. The Garand is not.
6. Most well-made boltguns will tend to be more reliable through extreme conditions than a semi-auto.
7. The Mosin was built for extreme conditions.
8. The Mosin will fire any military or commercial load without modifications or op-rod damage.
9. Gas actions are generally more temperamental over the long run than bolt-actions.
10. Boltguns are simpler in operation & maintenance in the overall picture simply because the entire gas system (tube/chamber, piston, rod) are not there.
11. The Mosin is not dependent on losable clips for operation.
12. The Mosin field strips in about a second, for cleaning.
13. The Garand is much more involved in field stripping, in both time and processes involved.
14. Both rifles weigh about the same. I find the Mosin carries better in hand on foot; the Garand is fatter at its naturally-balanced carry point.
15. The Mosin can fire light bullets & heavy bullets without damage or modification.


As stated, the Garand would be a better combat rifle.

The Mosin would be simpler in use, can be just as accurate in practical terms (one of mine has outshot with iron sights a scoped $2000 FN precision rifle), is much simpler to clean, has fewer parts to go wrong, and in a NON-combat situation can make a passable survival gun across a very wide range of harsh environmental conditions, which was the question generating this thread.

The Garand is a great rifle, but in a combat role I'd make other choices today, and in a survival role it would come in waaaay down the line in practicality, for me.

Can we get the nobody-asked-for-it Garand out of the way in this thread now?
It's a classic battle rifle, unquestionably.
But this is not a "Which Is Better- Mosin or Garand?" thread. :)
Denis
 
Wow, this got sooo many responses!


Quote:
Lets assume you show up at a store and there's a sign that says everythings free and there's boxes of your favorite 20 round packs (not 223/556, 7.62x39).
Just so you know mosins shoot 7.62x54R cartridges, not x39 which most ak's/sks rifles shoot. Thanks anyway.
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Just so you know I didn't include 7.62x54R because I think it has fallen off the bulk or compact box of ammo list. If you go pick up a box of 7.62x39 it could come in a nice little square package not surrounded by styrofoam. You could take 8 of those boxes and tape them into a 4 inch cube of 160 rounds. You could tape 3 of those cubes together and it would be about he same size as 100 rounds of 12 gauge. It just doesn't work with the milk crate example.

7.62x54 in the future if not now will probably be PPU or Hornady boxes like common 30-06.
 
Blindstitch said:
Just so you know I didn't include 7.62x54R because I think it has fallen off the bulk or compact box of ammo list. If you go pick up a box of 7.62x39 it could come in a nice little square package not surrounded by styrofoam. You could take 8 of those boxes and tape them into a 4 inch cube of 160 rounds. You could tape 3 of those cubes together and it would be about he same size as 100 rounds of 12 gauge. It just doesn't work with the milk crate example.

7.62x54 in the future if not now will probably be PPU or Hornady boxes like common 30-06.
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Hello,

Just an FYI -- not being argumentative -- there's still quite a bit around here. I just talked myself out of buying some at the local gun shop because I handload for it now, but there's still plenty out there. Lots of folks still sitting on it.

Regards,

Josh
 
Going back to the original question, "is the M-G a GOOD survival rifle?"

IMO, the answer is unequivocally, "No. It is not a GOOD survival rifle."

It's too heavy.

The trigger is way too heavy.

The bolt is way too stiff.

Most of them are not very accurate.

The safety is a disaster waiting to happen.

However, they are pretty reliable and they shoot a relatively inexpensive round, and the rifle itself isn't very expensive.

That makes it a SERVICEABLE survival rifle.

So, while one could use a mosin as a survival rifle, at this point in history there are much better choices out there to spend your money on.
 
When it does stick... have a 2X4 ready.

I think you said yours was prewar, those are generally less rough.

I like them, but you have to call them for what they are.

I had plans, big plans for mine, but eventually gave up.

The milsurp I did love the most is a No4 enfield, but it's at my ex's house... I won't go near her house ....

My mosin was pristine, and accurate but I found out how many rounds would lock the bolt...
 
soldiers had to urinate on the operating rods to get the warm enough to work?
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I do believe this is true...Also soldiers using old Vickers Maxim MGs used to urinate in the water cooled barrel's water tank when they ran out of water to keep it from overheating... However it was acidic and they had to be cleaned afterwards..
 
Peeing on the action is something we were told to try, in an emergency, if it was stuck shut due to the cold. Its not that there was anything special about pee, but it was warm, and something a soldier always has "with him".

The idea was something warm, that might thaw the action just enough to let you chamber and fire a round. Firing the round warms the action further, and the next round, more, etc., bringing the lube (which shouldn't be there in the first place) up to a temp where it doesn't interfere with function. If its snow& ice, same result. Apply something warm until you can get it loaded and fire it, then firing will keep it warm enough to not freeze shut, for a while...

You could do the same with hot coffee, tea, hot water, a torch, etc, but few of these are on hand in that frigid foxhole.

As I said, it's an emergency measure, but when you have that emergency, and your rifle is frozen shut anyway, what do you have to lose by trying??
 
Peeing on the action is something we were told to try, in an emergency, if it was stuck shut due to the cold.
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If you ever had to do this, would you have to clean it afterwards from the acids in urine? Just wondering. . .

Thanks
 
Really?

Huh, :
My bolt is not sticky at all,
My trigger is not at all heavy,
It's not too heavy,
I never use the safety on my Mosin,
It's PRETTY accurate!
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That's nice for you.

However, your question was, "Is the Mosin (91/30) a good survival rifle???" Which suggests M-Ns in general, not your particular rifle. If you want to talk about your particular rifle, for any of us to have anything to talk about, you'd have to let each of us spend time with it.

Otherwise, with my admittedly limited experience with M-Ns (only handled about a dozen of them), plus everything I've ever read about them, plus the experiences as related to me by friends concerning their M-Ns, I'm confident my assessment is fairly accurate.

Thanks.
 
This is like the motorcycle joke.

Back in January, on a bitterly cold winter’s day in North Dakota, a State Trooper out on patrol came upon a motorcyclist who was stalled by the roadside. The biker was swathed in heavy protective clothing and wearing a full-face helmet to protect the face from the cold weather.

“What’s the matter? asked the Trooper. “Carburetor’s frozen,” was the terse reply. “Pee on it. That’ll thaw it out.” “I can’t,” said the biker.

“OK, watch me closely and I’ll show you.” The Trooper unzipped and promptly warmed the carburetor as promised. Moments later the bike started and the rider drove off, waving.

A few days later, the local State Troopers’ office received a note of thanks from the father of the motorcyclist. It began: “On behalf of my daughter Jill, I’d like to thank Officer…”
 
beats a sharp stick

I remember seeing photos of folks guarding their, homes, property and people with .22 rifles after one of the west coast quakes. I have also read accounts of folks who "escaped" New Orleans with an AK clone.

Point is that just about any rifle and ample ammo gives you an up on mob type activity, at least for a bit. The Mosins came through Stalingrad, Lenningrad, etc and would be better than nothing. Not my first choice, but certainly could be pressed into effective service.
 
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