Is the Mosin (91/30) a good survival rifle???
- Thread starter MosinNOUGAT
- Start date
- Status
Anything that shoots can work.
I have a PU sniper, which actually is the longest gun in my safe. That is the biggest thing. Storage, use, maneuverability... all going to suck.
I also have a M38 carbine. If I was going to use a Mosin in that role, I'd probably choose that. More manageable rifle.
But 7.62x54mm is a very obsolete round... being rimmed. Rim lock is a pain. Going with something like .308 or .30-06 would be a little easier, even out to 8mm. Bolt action is usually rough... and that is being kind. I cleaned mine up, but still not Remington 700 or Mauser 98 smooth. Safety is a very big pain to use, so you are going to likely carry it with an empty chamber.
Just have to weigh out the negatives and positives. Personally, I'd pick a different rifle... but I also have a few different ones to choose from.
I have a PU sniper, which actually is the longest gun in my safe. That is the biggest thing. Storage, use, maneuverability... all going to suck.
I also have a M38 carbine. If I was going to use a Mosin in that role, I'd probably choose that. More manageable rifle.
But 7.62x54mm is a very obsolete round... being rimmed. Rim lock is a pain. Going with something like .308 or .30-06 would be a little easier, even out to 8mm. Bolt action is usually rough... and that is being kind. I cleaned mine up, but still not Remington 700 or Mauser 98 smooth. Safety is a very big pain to use, so you are going to likely carry it with an empty chamber.
Just have to weigh out the negatives and positives. Personally, I'd pick a different rifle... but I also have a few different ones to choose from.
The Mosin may have been good enough to fight two world wars but that was not at a time when all your enemies likely have AR platform or similar type rifles that would eat your lunch in terms of rate of fire and accuracy/effectiveness. At 300 yards an AR platform could easily dump 30 rounds into a man sized target in the same number of seconds. I don't know of anyone who could do that with a Mosin, even with the last name Miculek.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It depends on what you plan to survive.
Sustained engagement against a platoon with automatic weapons, bad choice.
Hunting for survival in extreme conditions, a very workable rifle for everything from rabbits on up to moose.
With the right ammo, very do-able in conditions that would completely eliminate the plastic-stocked $300 Rugers & Savages that people like to recommend instead.
Very easy to break down its large & rugged parts for cleaning & maintenance.
Try taking the Ruger American's bolt apart in the field without tools.
Built for environments that would send many inexpensive commercial bolt-guns screaming back to the campfire.
In a good one, accuracy more than adequate for deer.
Downsides are the sights will probably shoot high (easy to correct), the trigger will be long & distinctly un-crisp (can be improved), the bolt may be sticky (can be addressed), and optics are tricky to mount (so don't use optics).
Commercial ammo will be expensive.
You can learn to reload.
In a militaristic survival role, obviously not up to the job today.
In a hunting & critter-shield role, can do the job.
Denis
Sustained engagement against a platoon with automatic weapons, bad choice.
Hunting for survival in extreme conditions, a very workable rifle for everything from rabbits on up to moose.
With the right ammo, very do-able in conditions that would completely eliminate the plastic-stocked $300 Rugers & Savages that people like to recommend instead.
Very easy to break down its large & rugged parts for cleaning & maintenance.
Try taking the Ruger American's bolt apart in the field without tools.
Built for environments that would send many inexpensive commercial bolt-guns screaming back to the campfire.
In a good one, accuracy more than adequate for deer.
Downsides are the sights will probably shoot high (easy to correct), the trigger will be long & distinctly un-crisp (can be improved), the bolt may be sticky (can be addressed), and optics are tricky to mount (so don't use optics).
Commercial ammo will be expensive.
You can learn to reload.
In a militaristic survival role, obviously not up to the job today.
In a hunting & critter-shield role, can do the job.
Denis
They were probably the worst bolt action service rifle of both WW1 and WW2. They lack the sophistication of the best ones, the Lee Enfield and the Mauser 98. The updates in 1930, 1938, and 1944 were insignificant spins on a design that was mediocre in 1891.
Setting up a Mosin (and training yourself) to actually be useful is playing the game of gun ownership on hard mode.
You'll run into all kinds of obstacles. Here are some things I've found.
-Some stripper clips work well (from Gun Parts Corp).
-One stripper clip loading method works (grab the top round and use it to push the others down).
-The action screws always come loose under recoil.
-The rear sight can shift under recoil (e.g. from 300m to 400m after one shot).
-The bolts will stick, but not with brass ammo. Using brass ammo will do more than cleaning your chamber (by the way, do not put a fine polish on the chamber, as it is dangerous).
-The sights might not line up (e.g. 100m setting might match POI/POA at 100, but you might need 300m setting to match at 200m distance).
-The safety just requires a little technique. You need to put the butt of the rifle in the crook of your elbow and pull with your thumb and forefinger. But the safety can be dangerous if you let it slip.
-The handguards can slip if the retaining clips aren't doing a good job of holding them.
-They are so loud you will need to go with max hearing protection at all times. The flash and bang from the carbines is tremendous.
-You need a slip-on recoil pad with them.
-Ammo is not cheap anymore by any means.
-Triggers range from being so stiff it hurts your finger after a while to pull it to feels like a double action revolver trigger pull to modern hunting rifle.
-Even if the bolt isn't sticking it's hard to cycle the rifle quickly because it's a straight bolt handle, the bolt handle is short, and it cocks on opening. I always remove it from the shoulder to cycle it.
Some good points:
-Accuracy is no concern at all. I recently shot a ten shot group at 100 yards within 2.5" with an M38.
-Headspace is rarely a concern, but it headspaces on the rim and is super easy to check.
-Thin front sight posts are available from an ebay seller. They are nearly impossible to install but work well and you can file them down.
-Slings are readily available and work well.
-They draw enormous attention at the range.
Is it a good survival rifle? If you actually shoot your guns, sight in your guns, buy accoutrements and accessories for your guns, and test your guns, then sure you can kind of make it work. However, it will be totally outclassed by a Lee Enfield, Garand, or Mauser.
If you're the kind of person that likes to buy guns and then set them aside without setting them and yourself up properly, then what you're looking for is an AR-15.
Setting up a Mosin (and training yourself) to actually be useful is playing the game of gun ownership on hard mode.
You'll run into all kinds of obstacles. Here are some things I've found.
-Some stripper clips work well (from Gun Parts Corp).
-One stripper clip loading method works (grab the top round and use it to push the others down).
-The action screws always come loose under recoil.
-The rear sight can shift under recoil (e.g. from 300m to 400m after one shot).
-The bolts will stick, but not with brass ammo. Using brass ammo will do more than cleaning your chamber (by the way, do not put a fine polish on the chamber, as it is dangerous).
-The sights might not line up (e.g. 100m setting might match POI/POA at 100, but you might need 300m setting to match at 200m distance).
-The safety just requires a little technique. You need to put the butt of the rifle in the crook of your elbow and pull with your thumb and forefinger. But the safety can be dangerous if you let it slip.
-The handguards can slip if the retaining clips aren't doing a good job of holding them.
-They are so loud you will need to go with max hearing protection at all times. The flash and bang from the carbines is tremendous.
-You need a slip-on recoil pad with them.
-Ammo is not cheap anymore by any means.
-Triggers range from being so stiff it hurts your finger after a while to pull it to feels like a double action revolver trigger pull to modern hunting rifle.
-Even if the bolt isn't sticking it's hard to cycle the rifle quickly because it's a straight bolt handle, the bolt handle is short, and it cocks on opening. I always remove it from the shoulder to cycle it.
Some good points:
-Accuracy is no concern at all. I recently shot a ten shot group at 100 yards within 2.5" with an M38.
-Headspace is rarely a concern, but it headspaces on the rim and is super easy to check.
-Thin front sight posts are available from an ebay seller. They are nearly impossible to install but work well and you can file them down.
-Slings are readily available and work well.
-They draw enormous attention at the range.
Is it a good survival rifle? If you actually shoot your guns, sight in your guns, buy accoutrements and accessories for your guns, and test your guns, then sure you can kind of make it work. However, it will be totally outclassed by a Lee Enfield, Garand, or Mauser.
If you're the kind of person that likes to buy guns and then set them aside without setting them and yourself up properly, then what you're looking for is an AR-15.
Best "survival" rifle where hostile animals or predatory humans might be a concern, but one that is also handy and portable, as well as chambered in a commonly-available caliber, ... would be something like a 16" Mini-G or 18" Tanker Garand. These shorty M1s can be had in .30-06 or 7.62/.308.
The one below is an '06. Shoots like a laser too.
Insert an 8-rd en bloc clip, and with two more loaded in the stock pak, you've got 24-rds "on the gun," ready to go. Good for bears or bad guys.
American-made, battle-vetted under the harshest conditions most "outdoor" dudes here will never face. Ever heard of the Frozen Chosin? Puts the Commie Mosin to shame, for serious.
16" Mini-G.
Last edited:
Best survival tool will be your brain and a good knife or two. Learning to snare small game and fishing, will feed you better than any rifle. You simply can't carry enough ammunition for long term survival, if you're going to consider a rifle as a main survival tool. Plus if you're mobile there are a lot lighter rifles and ammunition to carry than a Mosin.
Yeah, I've heard of it. And I'd like to point out that while the M1 Garand gave respectable service under those harsh conditions, the other guys weapons, (including the Moisin Nagant) didn't stop working, either.
The Garand is superior to the MN in many ways, but ability to function in harsh conditions isn't one of the decisive ones.
That's good, 'cause way too many of the younger generation of AR-shooting dudenals sure haven't.
Well, the Chosin and other venues saw GIs with M1s facing down Commie "human wave" attacks armed with automatic weapons like the AK.
By the way, on the Mosin, try cycling a 5th round into battery with a frozen hand, while I've still got three rounds of '06 ball to squeeze off in my M1 clip.
It ain't rocket science. 8 quick semi-auto rounds will beat 5 slow bolt rounds all day, every day. 
If the alternative is 5-shot Commie bolt trash, it sure is.
In fact, I'd say the M1 was superior to the MN in all the important ways - i.e., ways that actually mattered in combat in that era, like the extra ammo capacity, rugged reliability, accuracy at distance, and the best iron-sights of any battle rifle ever fielded.
My data and experience indicates that the inherent accuracy and durability of Mosins is on par with Garands. Practical accuracy is better with the Garand of course.
The Garand sights are good, but the protective ears are a little short and it gets wobbly when adjusted to the really high elevations.
MosinNOUGAT
New member
thanks everyone, it was very helpful!
One thing I din't see mentioned..maybe I just missed it.
A Moisin is built like a truck axel....and during the war probably by the same people who made truck axels. Quality can vary from Pretty good (pre war, pre revolution examples) to horrible (war time rush).
Now in quality, I am not talking about finish..that is an easy sacrifice that doesn't impact performance. I am refering to tolerances and alignment. Bore sizing is all over the map as well as bore alignment, sight alignment, metallurgy, etc.
Also, due to corrosive ammo coupled with peasant maintenance and care, some have bores that are worn out, heavily pitted, and resemble sewer pipes. There is a reason some have counter bored muzzles.
With a Moisin you are shooting craps. It helps to be able to look the gun over real good and know what you are looking for and at.
A Moisin is built like a truck axel....and during the war probably by the same people who made truck axels. Quality can vary from Pretty good (pre war, pre revolution examples) to horrible (war time rush).
Now in quality, I am not talking about finish..that is an easy sacrifice that doesn't impact performance. I am refering to tolerances and alignment. Bore sizing is all over the map as well as bore alignment, sight alignment, metallurgy, etc.
Also, due to corrosive ammo coupled with peasant maintenance and care, some have bores that are worn out, heavily pitted, and resemble sewer pipes. There is a reason some have counter bored muzzles.
With a Moisin you are shooting craps. It helps to be able to look the gun over real good and know what you are looking for and at.
Pathfinder45
New member
It could work, but I do think that a cheap post-64 30-30 Winchester would be better anywhere in the USA.
And I would heartily agree with that. I'm just saying that the ability to operate in extreme cold isn't one of them. Both rifles, properly cared for, will work in extreme cold, and improperly cared for, they won't.
In other words, properly cared for, the Moisin Nagant is equally difficult to operate in all weather.
I don't have arctic experience with the M1 Garand, but I do have some with the M14 and the M16, , and one thing I came to appreciate that AR shooters never will grasp is the benefits of a charging handle that works BOTH WAYS.
Badgerstate
New member
Id look for something that uses more readily available ammo. Youve got to figure, if its a SHTF moment, youre going to have to scrounge for whatever ammo you can find, so you want something common.
Model12Win
Moderator
mooisoitnone nagaats are great tactical survival operator rifles:
They are accurate, powderful, and strong to defeat capitalist.
They are accurate, powderful, and strong to defeat capitalist.
ShootistPRS
New member
The Mosin is not the most elegant of rifles and certainly not the most beautiful gun on the rack but it is a well made bolt action rifle that has been tested under the harshest of conditions. It is a far better "survival" rifle than the more popular AR 15 series guns. It is versatile in that you can load it with very light bullets for small game and camp meat or up to the level required for buffalo and moose. It has proven itself as a weapon capable of long range use against an attacking enemy and even as a sniper rifle.
- Status