Is it legal to "hint" what is on your hip?

been there. done that. bought the t-shirt.

guy approached me, my spidey sense started going apepoop, so i put my hand on my gun, under my shirt. kept it there while trying to get distance from the guy who was making me so nervous.

afterwards, i wound up calling the police, as the whole situation was not right. i believe i was being sized up for a mugging. i doubt the guy knew what my hand was on, and the only thing that kept me from drawing down was that i saw no weapon in his hands. well, hand, i couldnt see one of his hands.

after telling this story on THR, many said they would have drawn down on the guy. i think pepper spray would have been better, or at the very least i should have had (and now i always do) my surefire light in my offhand.
 
Somthing like that could go both ways in a court of law. it would be you're word agenst his.

Todays court system is jacked with all the libral sludge fouling it up. :barf:
 
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You tell the guy, loudly, that you don't want any trouble, and that you will let him alone and go away. And back away. If he follows you, or grabs you, or waves a knife at you, then he becomes the aggressor and if he is armed you shoot to kill. And everyone in the vicinity heard you say that you didn't want trouble; everyone saw you back away and saw him follow.

You did everything possible to escape a confrontation; he attacked you.

If you get into a yelling and threatening match and say you have a gun, his reaction might well be, "I'm going to take your gun and shove it up your ***" or something to that effect, then you may have to shoot and witnesses will testify that you aggrevated the situation by challenging him.

Edited to add: This is for non-LEOs who are legally armed. If you are a LEO, you take his guff until he becomes unruly and disturbing the peace, then you move in, Mace the SOB and give him a set of shiny bracelets to wear while the uniforms toss him in a car and take him away.

Jim
 
This is a very good post!! As a retired LEO and NRA instructor, I believe that no matter what the situation you may find yourself in, it is important to know what the law is in your State and how it may be interpreted in a courtroom. Call a prosecutor - not a LEO - and ask, usually they will talk to you, if not, no harm done. The more knowledge you have the better off you will be. Once armed with as much knowledge as you can get, let common sense take over!
 
I also Say skip the punch part and draw ..........
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LOL

Clint_Eastwood.jpg


As funny as that sounds, in todays court room a Judge would probibly take one look at the poor guy, after he says you just got angry and shot him, then dump this all on you.

You're fire arm shouldnt be drawn untill you're life is in clear danger. If a Judge saw that this attacker had some kind of a weapon and was after you, you're chances are far greater.
 
My .01 cent

Snacktrack, you seem like a cool dude. This is NOT directed at you, but anyone thinking of drawing on someone b/c they've threatened to beat your a*s. Think about this. You go thruogh all the trouble of looking for a gun, buying a gun, going to CCW classes and paying the permit fee. But did you ever learn some sort of grappling, or boxing or something that is in the force continuum in between verbal confrontation and deadly force? So many people are quick to pull a weapon on someone before it should get to that point. A LEO can pull his sidearm if he feels that the person he is confronting has the abillity to disarm him and use his weapon against him. But somewhere during the struggle (unless you have prior knowledge) this decision will come to you.
Point of incoherent rambling: Learn self defense techniques to bolster up your learned weapon techniques. BTW, this will help you in court when you have to tell the jury that based upon your training and experience...
*Sorry, had to fix a spelling error. I've been told that I can't spell for sh*t.
 
Howdy,
A good run is better than a bad stand any day. That being stated the last thing I'm going to do is grapple with some guy if I'm carrying. I don't care how good your martial art skills are, the thought of having your carrying piece wind up in the BG's hands is more scary than facing a jury for pulling my weapon on him. The absolute best alternative is to leave if you're by yourself.
If you are in a situation where it puts your family and signifigant others at risk do what you have to. There's no point in pretending or eluding to having a weapon unless you REALLY plan to use it or at least draw it.
 
Boy, this is tough...

After 40 years of loving guns, I've never carried, though I've strongly considered it.

If I read some of the responses correctly here (and I'm not by any means implying y'all are wrong), it is that I need to either turn and run (maybe try to outrun) the bad guy (say, for example, I'm in line outside the theater, and some badazz jumps in in front of me and the missus, and he begins to berate me and get in my face when I ask him to go to the end of the line), or if I can't, sort of wait maybe till he hauls off and smacks the sh*t out of me so that I can properly sense that my life is in danger. Even then, I may need to try and whip this street tough first, before I pull.

Now, I don't want to revert back to the mythical old west ways, but are things a bit askew with our legal system?
 
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Yes, No, Maybe....

Relayer, things might, indeed, be that screwed up, depending on where you live.

Here in Washington, the RCW says, in part: "Use of force -- When lawful. The use, attempt, or offer to use force upon or toward the person of another is not unlawful in the following cases:...(3) Whenever used by a party about to be injured, or by another lawfully aiding him or her, in preventing or attempting to prevent an offense against his or her person, or a malicious trespass, or other malicious interference with real or personal property lawfully in his or her possession, in case the force is not more than is necessary..." RCW 9A.16.020 found at http://www.leg.wa.gov/RCW/index.cfm?section=9A.16.020&fuseaction=section

Notice the part where it says "about to be injured"...


So, here, in Washington, anyway, the offer to use force to protect yourself is NOT unlawful, as I read it...but I am not a lawyer, LEO, or prosecutor, and I don't live in King, Pierce or Snohomish county....So I MIGHT be safe doing it.

But, leaving or avoiding is ALWAYS the best course, whenever possible.
 
I gotta agree with Mr. Zulu. There is no way in hell I am going to grapple with a BG while I have a gun on me. The possibility of loosing that gun is just to great.
 
Well, you covered the 3 counties that selected the Govenor. I'm glad I live in Chelan county where the court challenge is going on.


Anyway, I have confered with some guys in the know and I got a pretty straightforward response. In no case that they could think of, is it illegal for the defending party to assume a defensive position and warn the attacker of the use of force if the the defending person has done nothing beyond normal interactions to provoke the situation or defuse it. So basically, if Joe Prick threatens you and you step back slightly but assume a position with one hand forward and one on your weapon and say something like "Stop, do not continue, I will use force to defend myself"

Use the word defend and say it loudly for anyone to hear. This sets the tone. Use force as well. Do not use the word gun as it creates some stereotypical reactions. In the police investigation when they are interviewing people they heard "I am defending myself" or they will say they heard "I have a gun". The first sounds much better for legal defense.

If such an incident does occur. Immediately call the police and inform them exactly what happene and that you are legally carry CWP holder. Also inform them you felt your life well being was threatened and you would like to press charges against the assailent. Do this if you have to shoot or not. It immediately puts you on the offensive and immediately brings the police to YOUR aid not the aid of your ATTACKER. IF you don't do this, the idiot can call the cops and say some guy pulled a gun on me. Now your on the defense immediately. One sounds like a law abiding citizen, the other doesn't. Legal folks don't fear police involvement in the eyes of the law.

Hope this helps!


Kelsey
www.luvtohunt.com
 
Live in Lewis County

Well, luckily, I live in Lewis County, so I don't have many issues with firearms down here.

When I dropped off my LEO copy of my C&R app at the sheriff office, the girls in the office just said "Oh, another one. We'll stick it in the file."

When I applied for my CPL, I was in and out in less than 15 minutes, CPL arrived in less than the required 30 days.

Great stuff.

I can't imagine living in Metro Seattle....what a zoo.
 
I don't even own a gun and I live in a state where it would be easier to vaporize my enemy with lasers from my eyes than to obtain a CCW permit. I'd just like to say, though, that if I ever did move somewhere that I'd be carrying a gun, I'd get my ass some Krav Maga classes and make damn sure that I could break any armed assailants wrist before he could take his safety off. The people in this thread who raise the question of "What if you hint and they draw?" have an excellent point. If some homeboy wants to showboat for his friends by putting a gun to your head, you won't be able to draw and fire effectively without losing your melon. You'd better either have Jesus or enough hand-to-hand combat knowledge to take his gun from him(preferably both). Just my $.02
 
Someone here wrote recently that "CCW gives you the right to carry but not to use a firearm". That is pretty insightful. If any of us actually draws on someone, or even shoots them--perphaps killing them--we go where our CCW permit is meaningless. Think of what LEOs go through, and their actions have some deadly force legality.
 
Howdy,
I really feel the need to question the posts referencing the individual that was incarserated for telling a BG he had a concealed weapons permit to avoid bodily harm. I'll start off by stating that I'm not questioning anyone's integrity , but the whole thing sounds like urban legend at best. Even in liberal la-la land I don't see how a person can be locked up for that. If this incident were even close to being factual it seems lawyers from the ACLU as well as the NRA would have jumped in to rip the DA a new a$$hole for trying to prosecute this guy.
If someone can confirm the actual validity of this case I'd more than be happy to send money to help out for this guy's legal fund.Until then the whole thing sounds like hype to me.
Worst case senario I don't see how an unarmed person, claiming to have a CCW to avoid physical confrontation, would recieve anything more than a fine. I'm no lawyer but show me where this is a felony offense!!!
 
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I had a situation several years ago when a guy got into an argument with me over a shopping cart that he thought I put against his car (which I didn't). I tried everything I could to calm him down and I think he felt bolder the more I tried to back down.

Finally he got right into my face and spit on me. Frankly at that moment I thought the next thing he would do would be to punch me out. I pulled my gun, put it to his head, yelled at him to get down on the ground face down, and on my cell phone I called the police and told them about being assulted and holding the man at gunpoint. When the police came, I put my gun on the ground (away form the moron) and told the police I wanted to press charges.

I finally let it drop with an appology from the moron.
 
It seems like some of you are afraid to fight and think shooting someone to avoid a fight will be ok.

The fact is that if they are unarmed and you shoot them, you'll most likely lose in court and end up in prison. About the only time you'd be able to justify killing someone is if they pulled a weapon, or if they were quite a bit larger and presented a huge threat. If you weighed 120 pounds and a 300 pound football player lookign guy came at you, then deadly force would definately be a good option. But if you were of equal size as the unarmed bad guy, then you'd have a fight on your hands in court.

Yes pulling the gun to stop him from advancing would be wise, but what if he keeps coming at you? Would you be willing to kill an unarmed man and try to convince a jury that you were right?


BreacherUp! is on the right track. Learn to fight without a gun before you bother carrying a gun.

Here in NM, open carry is legal. So I doubt that letting the guy know you are packing by just casually uncovering the gun would be any problem for you at all.
 
Im sorry but size can be very misleading, I have seen short stocky guys punch out someone a foot taller than them.

I have been in many fights in my adolescent life, and I feel as though I dont need to prove myself anymore. I dont want any kind of conflict. Why take the chance of getting your teeth knocked out, or even worse having the gun grabbed from you? Obviously the other guy is being the agressor, so why should you have to fight him?
Its as simple as this, either I can get away, and if I cant, I am NOT fighting. Thats is opening up the biggest can of worms. I am going to stop the conflict right away. I carry fox 5.3 now in my left pocket, and my revolver in my right.

I am hoping that my Spidey sense will tell me when its the time to skip the OC and go straight for the HP's.
 
BreacherUp! is on the right track. Learn to fight without a gun before you bother carrying a gun.
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Not all of us have this luxuary(sp). I've never told anyone about this (embarressing would be a key word here) but I have a muscle degenerative disease. Along with this comes about the dreaded bone brittleality phases, I'm the one in the commercial that yells out, "Help I've fallen and I can't get up" (not really me in that commercial, just the same boat). It seems as if my body sucks more from my muscles and bone marrow then it needs in order to function like it thinks it should. I can eat 40 meals a day and I still won't gain weight, in fact, I lose it :( (bone and muscle mass weighs more then fat, I am 6' tall and now a whooping 150lbs, and I don't try or exercise, or anything. I guess I'm a "fat man's" dream on how to lose weight :( ).

Anyway, I can't build muscle mass. As soon as it builds, my body sucks it dry. When I joined the military and went through MEPS, I found that I couldn't be in the Army or the Marines, they had us lift weights to determine our strength level, the Army and Marines recruits had to do 150lbs, us Air Force and Navy had to "try".... I lifted about 95lbs and that was pushing it. And I still can't life more then 100lbs without distress.

So, learning to fight is not an option for everyone. What about those worse off then I and are in a wheelchair? Those that can't move their lower half?

There are so many different variations of what is, what could happen, and people. It's unfortunate that the DA's and the lawyers try to pin you as an evil person, it's mostly due to politics, to either become a government senator or congressman or to become the next DA or governer. It's all politics to them, a score sheet if you will. They would hang their own mother if they thought it would advace their career.

I, as others, depend on a chunk of metal and little chucks of metal to be our protector in this world. I will honestly say that a 10 year old girl scout can kick my butt (okay, it was a 13 year old girl that kicked my butt but that is besides the point).

In this long and much not needed post, I just wanted all to take all aspects of the people that may wish to protect themselves and not offer a "one size fits all" conclusion. Not all are able to become "ninja's" or whatever. Many cannot become the next heavy weight boxing champs. Not all can depend on their bodies and strength to protect them in this world.

Wayne
 
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