Increasing hostility to Men & Women in Blue?

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zincwarrior, I agree with all four of your points - especially the last, about getting the correct address.

There is an article http://reason.com/blog/2014/10/24/who-really-likes-the-police-older-riche2 about this at Reason magazine online. It addresses the differences that age, gender, economic "class" and political affiliation have on how "the police" are regarded, as well as mentioning something about the volatility of this regard depending on "current events".

The first paragraph is:
"Americans like the police, but older, more affluent, white, conservative Republicans really like the police. Fully 72 percent of Americans say they have a favorable view of the police, and 24 percent have an unfavorable view, according to the latest Reason-Rupe poll. However, favorability has declined 6 points since the question was asked in April earlier this year. It’s possible greater public awareness of police militarization in the aftermath of the Ferguson, MO protests has undermined public confidence."

It is amusing that this article was published today, while this thread is still current.
 
And for heaven's sakes check that you have the correct address first.

Basic literacy should be a hard and fast requirement for LEOs.

A few years ago an innocent local family was terrorized by the SWAT boys in the middle of the night while the stash house they were supposed to be busting a block away was emptied out because they went to the wrong address.

The parents were zip tied and forced to lie face down on the floor in front of their terrorized small children while the cops ransacked the place, then left a horrible mess and broken front door and frame as they exited.

Oh, and the local yokels said they had no requirement to pay for the damages.

This type of behavior seems to be occurring more frequently and is a big part of why the public distrusts law enforcement.

Both of my brothers are LEOs. Neither has ever drawn his weapon from its holster in defense or offense. Both are very large, strong, ugly boys who like to intimidate people, though. And they've both resorted to fists/grappling on several occasions. And they always win. Not exactly bad cops, because they've never harmed anyone other than felons. But not fellas you'd likely take a swing at if you were tipsy.
 
It's pretty easy for me. I have cops that I am friends with, but I dislike and distrust the militarization of the police force. I don't disagree that many places need swat or some sort of tactical police units, but not everywhere needs an armored vehicle, multiple automatic weapons, grenade launchers, camo gear, and more that makes them look like the local communities army.
 
As has been pointed out, there are some LEOs out there that are bullies or control freaks. I've met some of them. Without going into details I recently had to call the police two days in a row. The first day the officers were very professional and courteous and they helped me. The next day I had to call them again for the same problem. I got different officers this time (much younger) and as I explained why I called them I got eye rolls and heavy sighs and was told that I shouldn't have called them and that I was wasting their time. I gave the officer the name of the one I had talked to previously and that he had said to call them back if I had any more trouble. His reply was that "he's not here today, I am so it doesn't matter what he said" and that I had better not call them anymore. My next call was to my attorney and he had to come out and explain the penal code to him as it pertains to stolen property and death threats.
I think part of the problem lies with the fact that POs get paid very little money to do what they do and while it's hard to get quality people to work that hard and take those risks a for a low wage it's easier to get people who are egotistic and power hunger and want a badge and a gun to prove how much better they are than everyone else.
I know that most cops aren't like that but it's the old adage of "one bad apple........" that comes to mind.
 
Where I live there are two different agencies that could pull you over for a traffic violation. One is our county sheriff, the other is the Nevada Highway Patrol.

The experience is very different depending on who pulls you over.
 
Three things that would change a lot:
*Body cams on at all times. This makes both the BGs and the GGs aware third parties are watching.

*Elimination of No Knock entries as a matter of policy. The policy needs to return to its original use. Absent kidnapping or violent crime in progress, no use of no knock.

*Use of SWAT. Like no knock, SWAT should go to its original purpose-dealing with very violent criminals and hostage situations.

And for heaven's sakes check that you have the correct address first.


I would add: Taking the word of a snitch as the basis for a raid.
 
I think everyone here has seen this map of "Botched Paramilitary Raids": http://www.cato.org/raidmap

It is interesting for several reasons. One is that it seems out-of-date / incomplete. Another is that the scale of the "balloons" marking the mistaken raids does not change as you zoom in and out on the map. As it comes up initially, it looks like the entire USA is covered in markers of inappropriate/botched raids. But when you zoom in on a city, the markers remain the same scale while the map gets finer, so it becomes clear that in a particular location there are only a few markers.

For instance, I zoomed in on Houston and found only 5 (sorry! I don't mean to imply that 5 mistaken raids is acceptable, only that it is less than the impression given buy the map as it is initially displayed). One is from 1993, one for 1998, one from 2004, two from 2009.

...and yes, one of those was the result of "taking the word of a snitch" when there was no other reason to attack that particular location.
 
Might help if they dropped the fishing expeditions. Don't subject me to a 10 minute line of questions just because I may have committed a moving violation. I'll politely take responsibility for my citation, but suggesting to me that people driving between these two cities on a Tuesday afternoon is the M/O for drug smugglers doesn't suddenly make me want to let you search my car. And just because you (trooper) are failing to intimidate me is not to be confused with a suspiciously guilty concience.

They are obviously trained (poorly maybe) with mind-games and questioning techniques to try to trick people into saying things that will push an encounter in whatever way the police want it to go.

Recent video comes to mind:
Officer: I see you play disc golf.
Driver: Yeah.
Officer: Maybe you can answer something for me... why do ALL disc golf players smoke pot? (friendly chuckle for emphasis)
Driver: I dont' know about that.

The officer then proceeds in a line of questions then later comes back to try to tell the driver he admitted to smoking pot and wanted permission to search the car.

These everyday encounters that the majority of the citizenry could realistically be subjected to are a big factor in a fundamental lack of trust for LEOs.
 
zincwarrior said:
*Elimination of No Knock entries as a matter of policy. The policy needs to return to its original use. Absent kidnapping or violent crime in progress, no use of no knock.
Eliminate both no-knocks and "knock-and-announce" dynamic entries. Some warrants require knocking and announcing, and only after a suitable delay can the police force entry. The law doesn't specify a time, but the courts have ruled that something on the order of 15 SECONDS is a "reasonable" time to wait.

Really?

My bedroom is on the second floor, I'm a heavy sleeper, and the route from the bedroom down to the front door takes longer to navigate than 15 seconds during the day, when I'm fully awake, dressed, and functional at the time I start. I don't think 15 seconds is a reasonable time to wait under any circumstances. At night, I doubt any amount of pounding on the door would wake me up within 15 seconds.

And that's not accounting for the way some police cheat the system by not knocking hard, and/or not announcing loudly, or not really waiting even 15 seconds -- but they always claim they did it all by the book. This is another type of situation in which body cams on all participating officers might help cut down abuse.

In general, though, I consider so-called "knock-and-announce" entries to be the same as no-knock entries. Both should be prohibited except for a very few, strictly controlled circumstances.
 
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Chesterfield said:
I think part of the problem lies with the fact that POs get paid very little money to do what they do
Every year around municipal budget time, one of the local weekly newspapers publishes a listing of the ten highest paid municipal employees. Of the top ten, there are always between six and eight who are cops.

Paid very little money? Don't think so.
 
I haven't seen that here in Central NJ. Granted in the course of my humdrum existence I have ZERO contact with my town's or any of the nearby communities' PD. All of the newer LEOs are recently discharged veterans, have that trim fit look with a military bearing but no militarization, no stomping about like they're ready to fight Darth Vader or they think they're the Waffen-SS. LEOs are the only public employees that deal with the public on a daily basis.
 
Maybe I have a different viewpoint on this, but it seems to me that a single incident of a no knock warrant, or some other tactical entry, at the wrong address is completely unacceptable. Particularly if the residents, INNOCENT residents, are hurt or killed by those police officers.
 
Every year around municipal budget time, one of the local weekly newspapers publishes a listing of the ten highest paid municipal employees. Of the top ten, there are always between six and eight who are cops.
Perhaps I was misinformed.:o Thanks for setting me straight.:)
This is what happens when I am lackadaisical with my research!
 
Guess I will chime in. First and foremost, I respect what each of you has said regarding this. To put things in perspective I would offer some facts, which you can choose to believe or not. I would suggest that today, the media coverage given to police incidents is much broader than in the past.

To begin, I am proud to say that I am one of the men in blue that this topic deals with. I like to think that I uphold a certain standard of conduct and professionalism in my day to day work. And this is the key: police work/law enforcement is not just a job, it is my profession. I strive to be professional in everything that I do. Every citizen encounter whether it be a traffic stop, a check of a suspicious person or a security check at a house alarm. I try to instill in my men and women that we are first and foremost, professionals.

In my agency, approximately 90% have bachelor's degrees. Over 65% have master's. Education is a key to professionalism. My agency enjoys a solid reputation within the community, to include the Courts, Corrections, schools and general public. I feel that a well-educated force will serve the public the best. To touch on what another poster mentioned on "Peelian" philosophy, "The police are the public, and the public are the police".

I DO feel that we are at an all time low in terms of public perception. I would agree that most of the people I work with are decent, hard working and professional. There are a few who, although at times are un-professional, are certainly not engaged in criminal behavior or conduct unbecoming of an officer. And there may be a "bad apple" or two who we all resent, wish were not on the force and who could give us all a bad name in a moment of poor decision making.

But I would ask each of you to look at your own profession, office, or co-workers and challenge you to NOT find someone who you do not like, who you think does a poor job, and who may not be representative of your profession as a whole. The police too, come from the same public pool as the rest of the populace. We are only human.

And yet, we must make critical decisions, under duress, within seconds or fractions of seconds. I have had my weapon drawn and pointed at subjects far too many times. By the grace of God I, like most, have not had to shoot anyone. But I have been close to doing just that on numerous occasions. This is the reality of police work.

I shudder to think of what the media coverage would look like if one of my officers was forced to shoot someone. Generally in our area, the headlines are front page, and the "corrections" days later are buried in the last section of the newspaper. We are forced to live to a higher standard.

Most of you probably agree that we hate when the media gets things wrong when it comes to firearms. Examples: "assault weapon", "clips", "fully-automatic", "exploding bullets" etc. I have spoken to multiple people who are under the assumption that we have at our disposal things such as automatic weapons, select fire weapons, riot gear, tanks, assault vehicles, grenades, etc. I have none of these things. Just because the news clip shows an MRAP and swat team rolling out, does not mean that they are so readily available. With luck, I can get a tactical team response in 45 minutes.

Most of my people do not wear camo, drive up armored humvees or carry NFA type weapons. A select few do, only as part of regional teams.

I have NEVER, been issued a warrant based upon a hunch, the word of a junkie, hearsay testimony, or busted down a door with "no good reason". Wrong address? Every warrant I've applied for includes physical address, description of the home, color of the exterior, shape or unique attributes, out buildings and must be supported not by suspicion, but by PROBABLE CAUSE.

No-knock warrant? Let's not let TV cloud our judgement here. I have asked for quite a few over the years. I've been issued TWO. All warrant requests are reviewed by a judge or clerk magistrate. Warrant may only issue upon probable cause. And a no-knock warrant must be supported by justification such as likelyhood of injury or destruction of evidence. Even when issued, the team on scene must re-assess, and if an exigency no longer exists they must knock. We do not just knock down doors for no reason in case you were wondering. Usually this happens after an extended investigation into criminal activity. True we may wear body armor and "gear up", but are we not allowed to have some measure of safety?

I wish we could return to the days of all blue and less equipment. But times have changed. I'll carry my OC spray and baton, and taser. Or should we return to night sticks, leather saps, and brass knuckles? I'd like to think that policing has evolved, our tactics are more sound and we are working smarter. Construction workers back in the day did not wear eye/ear protection, hard hats or reflective vests. Times have changed and lessons have been learned. Nurses no longer wear skirts, hats and starched shirts but now wear scrubs. No one seems to be calling them out for being less professional looking or too tactical. If I wear BDU's because they make it easier to move and carry my gear, how can this possibly be a bad thing? Perception should not dictate how we dress or what equipment we carry. We can still maintain uniformity and professionalism in all that we do.

I am compensated for what I do. Paid well? Certainly some officers are the highest earners in the city. But they put in the hours too. I average 70-80 hours per week, and it is not monday through friday. I work weekends and holidays while you are home for celebrations and family dinner time. Trust me I would much rather earn less, a decent wage, and only work 40 hours a week.

Soon I hope we all have cameras. It would help the police and certainly the public. And in time I think they would show just what tough situations we are in, the strange people we deal with and just what we are up against. They would help to "win back" the public we serve. There are always going to be mistakes made but then again, a lot of people make mistakes. The police are no exception.

Personally I will do my best to earn the trust of the public. I have had seemingly innocuous situations result in civilian complaints, which were later unfounded, and I can only describe as resulting from unreasonable expectations. I was once accused of poisoning a complainants' shrubs with mysterious white powder while on a medical assist call. Yep, sometimes that's the sort of thing that makes you scratch your head. But I've also had arrestees tell me that they respected me for how I handled them. Violent people, with extensive criminal histories, explain how they did not resist, fight or disrespect us because of the mere fact that they were treated with respect and dignity. I will continue to teach my people to be respectful, courteous, and human. We can always take the gloves off if the situation warrants it, but we can start by treating everyone respectfully.

I realize this is a long post, but want people to understand as best they can. I don't know that anyone can truly appreciate the level of pressure and responsibility that comes with this profession unless they have the opportunity to experience what we do. Without being too dramatic, I held a dying teenager's head in my hands some time ago. She had been hit by a car, operated by a drunk driver. It is doubtful that he will be convicted. He did not have to attend the autopsy, did not have to tell the parents, did not have to deal with the media frenzy. And then go home, throw away his uniform pants and wash the blood out of his hair. Some days are harder than others. The very next day I helped to remove a squirrel from a heating duct in an elderly woman's home. Highs and lows, extreme boredom to extreme terror in seconds. That is what we face. I am you. I am human. I will try to remember that, if you will as well. Please don't judge me for wearing a tactical uniform or carrying a long gun to protect myself.
 
Mr. Malibru

Great post and I suppose there are good peace officers and good police departments. I suppose not all LEO's are bad. But when I search YouTube for videos of police misconduct, there isn't a shortage of them.
 
Thank you for your post Malibru, as well as for the service you provide. I don't hate-that really is a strong word-or dislike cops. I have just had a strong dislike for the way some of them have acted. The majority of LEOs I know or have had dealings with are professional, courteous, and respectful-as long as they get the same in return. This is how it should be but if you give a cop a hard time don't be surprised if you get an even harder time in return.
But when you call the police for help and they show up with a bad attitude and tell you you're wasting their time and you'd better not bother them again, after you've reported that someone threatened to shoot you-in front of several witnesses-which they didn't even bother to check out it leaves you feeling helpless and with a completely different view of POs in general.
 
The primary problem I see is the enormous disparity in authority and accountability. As has been mentioned you can find a large number of incidents of police misconduct. No knock raids at the wrong house, dead dogs galore, unjustified killings , etc, etc. And 9 times out of ten (my perception, not an accurate statistical survey:rolleyes:) the response is "qualified immunity".

If I screw up and kill someone without ironclad justification, I'm going to prison. If an officer does, the most common result seems to be "suspended with pay" followed by "cleared and returned to duty".

The largest fault IMO doesn't lie with the officers but with our political class who determine what the officers will enforce. And how.
 
Malibru said:
But I would ask each of you to look at your own profession, office, or co-workers and challenge you to NOT find someone who you do not like, who you think does a poor job, and who may not be representative of your profession as a whole. The police too, come from the same public pool as the rest of the populace. We are only human.
We all understand that police are human, and that the level of professionalism among police officers will cover a broad spectrum. That said, are you denying that in most departments (perhaps not yours, or perhaps yours has not yet been tested) that officers cover up for their brother officers who screw up? Are you denying that it's extremely rare for an officer to report a colleague for bad conduct or illegal actions?

Other professions? I am a member of a licensed profession -- actually, I hold licenses in two professions. Do some of my colleagues turn a blind eye to misconduct by our fellows? Yep. On the other hand, I have twice been a whistleblower and testified before federal grand juries concerning the activities of colleagues. If you are NOT willing to do that, you really can't call yourself a "professional."

As I posted previously: "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem." I prefer to be part of the solution.

http://www.policemisconduct.net/

http://www.cato.org/raidmap
 
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I have twice been a whistleblower and testified before federal grand juries concerning the activities of colleagues. If you are NOT willing to do that, you really can't call yourself a "professional."


Excellent.

It all comes down to integrity: Some have it, some don't. Two of my colleagues served long federal prison sentences because of testimony given in court by another person and myself.
 
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