Increasing hostility to Men & Women in Blue?

[45_auto]

I was a deputy sheriff for 8 years, from 1999 till 2007.

My perception over those 8 years:

After 9/1/1, law enforcement started becoming much more militarized.

It seems that the public perception and police interactions began slowly moving towards the police being an "occupying force".

In response, the police close ranks internally, have even less "normal" interaction with the public, and become more draconian in their enforcement of laws.

Seems to be a circle that needs to be broken.

 

[geetarman]

I have several friends in LE. I shoot with some of them and they are friends. I do see a trend for the public to video their interactions with LE and the LEs who object to that raise questions for me. I don't know, percentage wise, if there is more abuse of authority by LE now than before. Certainly the public is more prepared to fully document their interactions with LE and that is probably a good thing. When only one side is doing the recording, there is the opportunity for critical videos to "go away."

 

[Crankgrinder]

I believe Al Sharpton is behind much police perception at this time

 

[zukiphile]

"...but the public forgets they are pulled from within the same pool..."

I agree that this is important. For most characteristics, I would say that POs follow the ordinary bell curve of the wider population. That necessarily means that some are extraordinary in the good sense as well as the bad one.

Add to that the fact that many routine contacts with POs, traffic tickets, are unpleasant.

It's the result of several factors. Many of them are generational.

I think some of this is age related. An 18 year old lad may feel that POs simply assume they are up to little good. Thing is, I was 18 once, and I now think that it is a generally fair assumption that an 18 year old who obviously has time on his hands deserves a degree of focus.

 

[full case load]

I agree with Crankgrinder and go him one further. From the very top U.S. public servant, Justice Department, Mayor, and on down, are insinuating a cop is guilty before the facts are known and gathered.

 

[51.50]

I'm glad to see the forensics are proving Darren Wilson's version of the shooting of Michael Brown. It is obvious the eye witness lied about hands up, etc.

 

[zincwarrior]

To me it seems they use swat teams and no knock warrants when it is not necessary. Like for civil matters and traffic warrants. They also need to double check to make sure not to raid the wrong address. Hearsay from an informant should not be grounds for a no knock warrant.

This. I lived in the bad parts of LA in the late 80s. Heavy police presence and an "occupier/occupied" mentality were rampant. It seems that the war on drugs and handing out of SWAT toys has spread this mindset out of bad crime areas.

When I grew up, cops didn't look like soldiers.

 

[thallub]

i fail to see "increasing hostility to men in blue". i see pushback to numerous cases of police overstepping their bounds.

Police come from the great unwashed pool of humanity that gave us Mother Teresa, and the Manson family. Most policemen/women are decent folks who follow the law. Unfortunately, many entire police departments circle the wagons when a rogue cop is exposed.

An OK sheriff went to federal prison for shaking down motorists. Another went to federal prison for raping female inmates.

 

[OuTcAsT]

zincwarrior Wrote;

When I grew up, cops didn't look like soldiers.

Precisely, and, more importantly, they did not act like soldiers. The term at that time was "Peace Officer" They were simply citizens who wore a badge and gun and, more often than not, were there to help diffuse a situation with an eye toward preventing crime. In my experience, they used common-sense approaches to help "keep the peace" and serve the community they lived in. The Us vs. Them mentality did not exist.

Times have certainly changed.

thallub wrote;

i see pushback to numerous cases of police overstepping their bounds.

Indeed, I think us is getting increasingly tired of being subjugated by them.

 

[Bella]

I remember when I was a kid, almost fifty years ago, that sometimes I would tag along with my dad on his errands. We would go to the hardware store, sometimes to the grocery store, or even to a bakery for some treats. During our outings we would cross paths with police officers once in awhile.

I remember that they would chat with my father or they would interacting with other customers. I still remember their appearance. They wore dark blue uniforms and service hats. I would look at the belt and spot their service revolver and would try to not stare at it. I also saw the pouch with extra rounds and a pair of handcuffs.

These days I occasionally go into Starbucks and see local deputies in for their cup of Joe. They are wearing camo type clothes. Their belts not only carry a gun, but their is a taser, pepper spray and other assorted equipment. Their belt set-up would make Batman envious.

I also see little or no interaction between the cops and other patrons. Its like they are in their world and we are in ours.

What has changed?

 

[jimbob86]

I also see little or no interaction between the cops and other patrons. Its like they are in their world and we are in ours.

The same can be said of most people...... even people sitting at the same table often spend more time/attention with their phones than the people next to them.

 

[zxcvbob]

I agree with Crankgrinder and go him one further. From the very top U.S. public servant, Justice Department, Mayor, and on down, are insinuating a cop is guilty before the facts are known and gathered.

I'm glad to see the forensics are proving Darren Wilson's version of the shooting of Michael Brown. It is obvious the eye witness lied about hands up, etc.

I agree with both of these. Calling *every* police encounter that goes sideways "brutality" or "racism" (or whatever) does a disservice to everybody, cop and citizen alike.

 

[44 AMP]

I'd say the hostility to Men & Women in Blue isn't any worse than it used to be.

Of course, we don't HAVE as many men & women in blue in the public eye as we used to. What we see today is men & women in black or camouflage.

its also cyclical. Hate and distrust for law enforcement goes up and down. Any other oldsters here remember when cops were called "pigs" by nearly everyone, unless they were members of "the Establishment" or were over 30?

We had terrorists back then, too. They just weren't really religious...generally.

Another thing that might play a part is all the cop shows on TV. We are endlessly shown cops doing (nearly) anything they please in fictional shows, and we see an awful lot of cops in "reality" shows.

We have raised a generation of TV addicts who have been taught by that great teaching screen that if you talk to the cops, you will get body slammed against their cruiser....among other things...

And all the real evidence of cops doing bad things now available thanks to our advanced technology has to be playing a part as well.

In years past, it was common place for a man to rob someone and leave him unharmed. Today, a robber will shoot or harm his victim just because he feels like it

.

Some have always done that kind of thing. I think more are likely to do it today than in the past, I agree there. Besides the general lack of respect for human life, there is the fact that changes to the punishments for crimes has removed any reason not to kill. At least many have that perception.

When a thug robs a store, shoots and kills the clerk, and gets 20 years for robbing the store, and 20 years for killing the clerk, and the sentences run concurrently, what exactly is stopping them from killing?

There are a great many factors involved, many of them have already been mentioned.

It was brought up how cops were heroes after 9/11 and now not so much. Well, they weren't heroes to a lot of people before 9/11. Things change, and then later, they change again.

There is a world of difference between the way our vets today are treated and what we got when we came home from Viet Nam, (in general).

Militarization, attitude, and the virtually instant and widely publicized reporting when mistakes do happen, isn't doing cops any favors when it comes to making friends with the general public.

Like any other minority group, cops all get tarred with the same brush. We can, and really should do better. And so should they!

 

[aarondhgraham]

An OK sheriff went to federal prison for shaking down motorists. Another went to federal prison for raping female inmates.

And an OHP officers public statement was something on the order of,,,
If you don't want this to happen, don't do anything to get pulled over.

When cops start to turn in their brothers/sisters who do this stuff,,,
Then I will start to have a bit of faith in them again.

My experience with law enforcement agencies is not good,,,
I have CSO'd at two different departments,,,
Everyone covered the bad cops butts.

Aarond

.

 

[thallub]

And an OHP officers public statement was something on the order of,,,
If you don't want this to happen, don't do anything to get pulled over.

That captain's remarks were in the context of ladies being raped by OK cops. Within the past two months four OK cops have been accused of raping lady motorists. One accused rapist is an OK state trooper:

http://www.okcfox.com/story/26533809/oklahoma-highway-patrol-trooper-arrested-accused-of-rape

http://www.tulsaworld.com/newshomep...cle_d3b5a310-fc95-5a89-bbaf-ba8009e6f70d.html

OK state trooper pleads guilty to assault to avoid rape charge:

http://newsok.com/former-oklahoma-h...oman-pleads-guilty-to-assault/article/3860982

This OK City cop had a thing for molesting and raping black lady motorists:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/2...-officer-accused-rape-sex-assaults-on-patrol/

We have a big problem here in the state of OK. Younger cops in positions of authority are often on power trips. i attribute much of that to Oklahoma's poor educational system and the lack of realistic formal educational requirements for police jobs.

 

[pnac]

When cops start to turn in their brothers/sisters who do this stuff,,,
Then I will start to have a bit of faith in them again.

Same here. The large "good" majority ought to be able to beat the small "bad" minority pretty easily, don't you think?

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Same here. The large "good" majority ought to be able to beat the small "bad" minority pretty easily, don't you think?

One might think that. First, however, it presupposes that there actually is a "good" majority. IMHO that remains to be proven. The fact that many of us may know personally one or two or three cops who seem to be nice guys in a social setting doesn't prove it. A nice guy at a Saturday barbecue could be a jack-booted thug when in uniform and on duty. More importantly, the few cops we know -- even if they are ALL good guys, represent a mere drop in the proverbial bucket.

The joke about lawyers may well apply to LEOs: "98 percent of them give the rest a bad name."

Also IMHO, no matter how "good" a guy a cop may be otherwise, if he/she turns a blind eye to or helps cover up dirty deeds on the part of a fellow officer -- then he/she forfeits all right to be considered a "good guy." There's another old saying that definitely applies here: 'If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."

 

[Kimio]

"Evil triumphs when good men do nothing." Is a saying that comes to mind.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

I think we are probably on an upswing in anti-police sentiment, but not one that is really out of the norm for the country, and I don't think it's nearly at the same level it has been several other times in the last fifty years or so. I'd say opinion about law enforcement is probably pretty volatile, with reports (right and wrong, as we have seen) of police misconduct being reported, viewed, reviewed, interpreted, misinterpreted, blown out of context, or chattered about pretty much constantly and instantly.

That works both ways, of course, recall that media coverage of first responders led to a major swing in public opinion about police in the positive direction after the 9/11 attacks, the Boston marathon bombing, etc.

A lot of it depends on whether cops are in the news for something bad or something good at the present time.

 

[zincwarrior]

Three things that would change a lot:
*Body cams on at all times. This makes both the BGs and the GGs aware third parties are watching.

*Elimination of No Knock entries as a matter of policy. The policy needs to return to its original use. Absent kidnapping or violent crime in progress, no use of no knock.

*Use of SWAT. Like no knock, SWAT should go to its original purpose-dealing with very violent criminals and hostage situations.

And for heaven's sakes check that you have the correct address first.