Illegal Aliens: Solutions

Option 1: A soldier with a rifle and a box of ammo every 50 yards along the entire border.

Option 2: We build an electric fence like the T-rex pen from Jurassic Park.
 
The T-Rex fence in Jurassic Park was brought down by one fat guy.

I hope this doesn't offend anyone because it's not intended to. But if it does, well, it's an observation. One that I have thought about for a while, but like some, thought it useless to express since it doesn't really present any solutions except negative and extreme ones. But if that's what it takes, well then that's life.

I've been having a thought for a while. I know it is far from politically correct, and maybe it's morally corrupt, (actually it probably is). But if I am thinking about it, and not wishing to act on it, how many out there are acting on it?

So first off, the disclaimer. I DO NOT advocate violence in any fashion to solve problems that could be solved by other means.

Taking into account, people's unwillingness to enact the death penalty on people who truly deserve it. (Such as Moussaoui, regardless whether or not he wanted it. His opinion shouldn't matter.) The Hussein trial. (Oh my God if anyone should have been shot on site it should have been him.) The only solutions presented right now for illegal immigration being talk and more talk. People marching and picketing for the U.S. to go to every other God forsaken country on earth to stop genocide. (And getting our soldiers killed in the process.) Rebuilding cities that will more than likely be destroyed over and over again. Calls to close the gitmo prison, thereby releasing hundreds of people who would strive to become the next, 9/11 perpetrators. (I can picture them laughing about the fact that we valued their lives more so than our own as they fly planes into more buildings). To name the big problems.

Why is it human life is held in such high regard? People who base their lives on what the media tells them, cringe more at the thought of a rapist being executed, than they do at the thought of an endangered animal species actually going extinct. Just imagine for a second that all the genocides that have taken place over the years, didn't happen. I will be the first to decry genocide in all it's forms, however I can't help but try to imagine what the world's population and famine situations would be if everyone who died because of war, or the like, went on to have more and more children. At the rate that the population today is going, what with 12 and 13 year old girls getting pregnant in third-world countries, what are we going to do? We are far, FAR, from colonizing other planets at this point. In fact the guy who thinks of the way to do it is more likely to be killed in his home rather than living to fullfill his potential.

Take the protests to spare Tookie Williams as an example. It all goes hand in hand with the problem in this country, never mind countries like Africa, about putting thoughts, opinions, and beliefs of criminals and evil men, ahead of their victims.

Why is it we have to treat every illegal alien with kid gloves? If we start by shooting border runners on site, won't that solve the big problem all at once, there by sparing more money and lives, rather than dealing with every small problem with months of debating? Some people think of these aliens as an invading force. Do we have to wait before a country officially declares war on us, or vice versa, before we shoot the enemy?

I don't like the idea of bloodshed, in fact I can't really stomache it at all. But like the revolutionary war, in fact every revolution that ever took place in the history of earth to make each country what it is today. Violence eventually will be a necessity at the rate that this countries problems are going.

The perfect example is Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And though it is a completely different situation between WW2 and immigration, the basic principle is the same. An initial strong show of force, usually gets the job done so no more solutions are needed. Look at the insurgency in Iraq for Christ's sake. They use nothing but terror, violence, and bloodshed. And the media has been fixated on them the whole time. Now we are talking of backing out of Iraq, rumors of pulling out and cutting our losses?! They are getting what they want, and they are killing for it!

So while I strive to be a peace loving, law abiding gun owner to the best of my ability every day, what about those out there who aren't as peacefull as I? And what will it take to stop the influx that will surely be civilization's downfall as we know it, when all the talking, rhetoric, and basic BS fails to do anything?:cool:
 
2ndamd said:
I love how the NSA is building a databank of recording all of the 1000's of phone calls and spying on it's own citizens. And that's okay for us to spend money to spy on own citizenry. BUT YOU WILL NOT SPEND THE MONEY TO PROTECT OUR BOARDERS FROM ILLEGALS WHO ARE NOT EVEN CITIZENS OF THESE UNITED STATES??????
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The job of the NSA is not that of the border patrol. They deal with real threats such as preventing terrorists that have already infiltrated our borders. You can stick your head in the sand and pretend they don't exist, but the truth is that there are many groups out there that hate the U.S.. The 9/11 hijackers were already in the country. I believe that most of them were here legally. Can you block all immigration from all Arabic countries? Many Arab countries are our allies and vital trading partners. The guy in the turban could be a multi million dollar oil tycoon or he could be plotting to kill innocent people. By using sophisticated electronic equipment, the NSA can pick up on key words from voice lines or internet traffic that can prevent another 9/11 type tragedy. How much did that tragedy cost us? I bet there are plenty of sickos just wishing to set off a nuke in the U.S.. I guess you feel it is more important to keep a few hard working people out of our country instead of protecting us from some real threats. :rolleyes:

2ndamd said:
Meanwhile, in the real world, the country is being over run with people who have no respect for the law. They come into the country illegally. If we do not enforce the law of our boarders then, what law CAN we enforce????? I mean the illegal aliens may think it is okay to take somone's property. Well, we did not enforce one law why would we suspect that they would know which laws we do enforce and which ones we do not.
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You seem to blame illegal aliens for all of the crime. Many illegal immigrants are honest hard working people that just want to earn an honest day's pay. Most of them prefer to fly under the radar rather than risk getting deported after getting picked up for some crime. While you may not see it, our current administration recognizes the fact that illegals are a critical part of our work force. Some of them are the hardest working people I have ever met. They are grateful for what work they can get, unlike f'ing union SOBs who jack up costs unreasonably. Who would do all of the agricultural jobs? How about the construction jobs? What about other low paying jobs that no one would fill? I think Bush has the right idea on granting illegal immigrants temporary work visas. Businesses that continue to hire illegals will be hit with serious fines and will eventually have to comply. There will always be illegal workers doing domestic jobs such as cleaning and gardening but what threat do they really pose?


Some of your responses on this thread make me sick. You guys who talk about shooting illegal border crossers like animals have some serious issues. Maybe you blame immigrants for taking your jobs. Maybe if you did your jobs better, no one would be able to take your job. Maybe a lot of this ranting goes deeper than that and is based on racism. Maybe you guys have been the victim of a crime by a hispanic person and now blame all of them for that crime. Get over yourselves. Many illegal workers are hard working individuals who bust their butts to support their families back home rather than your typical criminal. Without some way for them to legally work, they may be forced to turn to crime.

We need to enforce labor laws and get these guys to buy into the temporary work visa idea. I believe that we can control the border without having to resort to shooting people like dogs. Bush has already committed to placing another 6,000 border patrol agents in the next few years. Technology has also come a long way, allowing those 6,000 agents to be much more effective.

How about a little respect for human life. Remember that we are a nation of immigrants and a little tolerance goes a long way.
 
I think Bush has the right idea on granting illegal immigrants temporary work visas.
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So much foolishness to respond to, but unfortunately I only have time right this moment to ask you a question about this one comment:

Since you support the gov’t supplying additional non-immigrant visa’s (the “temporary work visa”) you should know how many non-immigrant visa’s we provide each year, as well as how many are used. I mean if you want to give more of something you ought to know if what you’re already giving is being used up, right? Well, do you know? Surely, you do actually know something the plan you profess to support...right...
 
ahenry said:
Since you support the gov’t supplying additional non-immigrant visa’s (the “temporary work visa”) you should know how many non-immigrant visa’s we provide each year, as well as how many are used. I mean if you want to give more of something you ought to know if what you’re already giving is being used up, right? Well, do you know? Surely, you do actually know something the plan you profess to support...right...
Click to expand...

Current Cap Count for Non-Immigrant Worker Visas For Fiscal Year 2007

Here are your numbers... With the combined H-1B and H-2B visas, you are still looking at less than 300,000 people. That is less the 1/10 of a percent of the US population. H-1B is typically a one year internship after college graduation or requires a master's degree or higher to qualify. The H-2B visas are for
The H-2B visa category allows U.S. employers in industries with peak load, seasonal or intermittent needs to augment their existing labor force with temporary workers. The H-2B visa category also allows U.S. employers to augment their existing labor force when necessary due to a one-time occurrence which necessitates a temporary increase in workers. Typically, H-2B workers fill labor needs in occupational areas such as construction, health care, landscaping, lumber, manufacturing, food service/processing, and resort/hospitality services.
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In addition to the H-1B and H-2B visas, there is the I-129 visa which is the temporary worker visa. I could not find any information on the number of visas issued so please enlighten me if you can.

We have an estimated 11 million illegal immigrants here in the U.S.. How many of them do you think are employed? I'm willing to bet that most of them hold jobs. There is clearly a gap in the number of visas issued and available jobs in the workplace. Current unemployment figures can be found here. While those number may seem high, "Persons are classified as unemployed if they do not have a job, have actively looked for work in the prior 4 weeks, and are currently available for work." Honestly, what percentage of these unemployed people are really looking for work? How many of them are just trying to mooch off unemployment as long as possible? How many actually have under the table jobs and still collect unemployment? How many of those on unemployment are immigrants? I'm betting it is not the majority.

How many of you are business owners looking for employees? I know South Florida is booming but it is hard to find good employees. I would gladly welcome hard working immigrant to work at my business provided they are legally eligable to work.
 
I think this will be my final time on this subject. I think it is going down paths I would rather not travel.

You can't shoot unarmed peasants, including women and children. Those of you advocating it should be ashamed. You can interdict them, turn them back or arrest them.

Vicente Fox and his corrupt government have a problem. Mexico is run and owned by a small handful of families whose sole purpose in life is to stay in power and rape all the wealth out of Mexico they can. This creates intense hardships for the citizens of Mexico. The Mexican government takes the pressure off by sending their " surplus " people north. If they didn't, the grinding poverty would probably cause another revolution.

You really can't blame the Mexicans for wanting to come over here. Is it our responsibility to let them have free access? Absolutely not. We have every right to control our border. However, shooting them would be murder. Use a different method.
 
I agree that shooting immigrants would be murder, as I stated in the disclaimer of my last post. I agree that we should enforce labor laws, because there will always be jobs these people would do that we don't want to. And cudos to Bush, (this one time) for getting the national guard ready to gear up for border patrols. Congress approved it this morning I think.

But if these people are such hard working individuals, who will do the jobs most people don't want,. Put up with all the headaches of sneaking across the border, and then dealing with hard lined people who don't want them here. Why is it that they are running away from the problems they have allowed to take root in their own country? If they're so hard working, why can't they just overthrow the corrupt, drug controlled Mexican government and fix things for themselves? As is usually the case in history, there are a hell of a lot more poor immigrants trying to get into this country illegally, than there are soldiers and drug dealers, who keep them pressed under the heel of corruption. Why do they have to come here for a better life? Is their country any less capable, in the right hands, of providing for it's citizens? The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. But only to those who are too lazy to water their own lawn.:cool:
 
Stephen 426

I think you are missing some of my points.

Point 1. I know the NSA has a job to do. My point was that some were saying building the wall is too expensive. But, it is okay for us to spend how much money on spying on the leagl citizens but not the illegal citizens? And our boarders are NOT part of National Security??? If the illegals aliens have no problems coming into the USA then how easy it would be for the terrorist to come in? But we can not spend the money on the wall but the exploration of the planet Mars is more important that our nations boarders? Not in this American's opinion.

Point 2. I do not blame illegals for crime. I know most are just wanting a better life. What I was suggesting is that if we promulgate hypocratcy it will come back to bite us. In other words: If we allow one law to be broken and look the other way then, what can we expect of the people that we allowed to break that law?

My Great granfather came to this country from Hungary. He went through Ellis Island with a dream. But, he did it through legal channels. Heck the U.S. Government changed my family's name from Belyus to Bellus. I guess it was easier for them to understand? So, I can appreciate a dream to live a better life. But, can anyone else here appreciate my dream of having a secure boader that invites legal immigration? That is all I want. Legal immigration. God bless people for making an attempt to better their lives. But, there is a process to go through to make this happen. Sorry but it is called the LAW! And you do not get to circumvent the LAW because it is inconvient for you.

As for the comment of racism........If you could see me and my wife togther I think you would not say that to me. I have been in an interracial relationship for over 10 years with my wife. Asking people.....ALL PEOPLE.....to follow the law is NOT racist! It is American, patriotic and the right thing to do. Now if the system needs to be adjusted to facilitate the needs of the people? Then, work through the system to make the changes necessary. You do not get to break the law.....Period. And in order to get people to begin following the law and using the system you must secure the boarder.........Therefore, to my original point.....BUILD THE WALL!

I would not have responded to this post except that you suggest racism. You Sir, have no idea the racism that my wife and I have encountered. So, I am deeply offended at you suggesting racism because I want people to follow the law. Just as people do not need to post racist remarks in this forum so, to do people not get to suggest racism with no empirical evidence to support their claim. Think twice before you pull out your racism card. It doesn't work here my friend. You have just been checked and you stand corrected.
 
You can't shoot unarmed peasants, including women and children.
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Sure you can; you just don't lead them as much when taking the shot :D .



just joking.

Here's another idea.

Those that want to come over (illegal or legal) should be obligated to serve at least a two year tour in the military (some countries make it mandatory for their citizens. In Israel it doesn't matter if you are Arab, Jew, Christian, if you are living in Israel and want citizenship you must serve your tour). I also think that they should serve in a combat role and help defend the country they are trying so hard to get into. I am ex military and have met many folks in the military who weren't U.S. citizens, but were proudly defending our nation and wearing our uniform.
 
Sure you can; you just don't lead them as much when taking the shot
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Okay, I know I wasn't going to reply on this thread anymore, but that did make me (unexpectedly) laugh.

As far as allowing military service to be a path to citizenship, I'm for it. I think it should be a 4 year tour and the person must have entered legally. Just my opinion.
 
We should handle things like Mexico does...

A friend of mine works for one of the Bell Comm. companies, and had to work in mexico for a while, take a look at what he had to do.

>
> I spent five years working in Mexico.
> I worked under a tourist visa for three months and could legally renew
>it
>for three more months. After that you were working illegally. I was
>technically illegal for three weeks waiting on the FM3 approval.
>
> During that six months our Mexican and US Attorneys were working to
>secure a permanent work visa called a FM3. It was in addition to my US
>passport that I had to show each time I entered and left the country.
>Barbara's was the same except hers did not permit her to work.
>
> To apply for the FM3 I needed to submit the following notarized
>originals
>(not copies) of my:
>
> 1. Birth certificates for Barbara and me.
> 2. Marriage certificate.
> 3. High school transcripts and proof of graduation.
> 4. College transcripts for every college I attended and proof of
>graduation.
> 5. Two letters of recommendation from supervisors I had worked for at
>least one year.
> 6. A letter from The ST. Louis Chief of Police indicating I had no
>arrest
> record in the US and no outstanding warrants and was "a citizen in
>good standing."
> 7. Finally; I had to write a letter about myself that clearly stated
>why
> there was no Mexican citizen with my skills and why my skills were
>important
> to Mexico. We called it our "I am the greatest person on earth"
>letter. It was fun to write.
>
> All of the above were in English that had to be translated into Spanish
>and be certified as legal translations and our signatures notarized. It
>produced a folder about 1.5 inches thick with English on the left side and
>Spanish on the right.
>
> Once they were completed Barbara and I spent about five hours
>accompanied
>by a Mexican attorney touring Mexican government office locations and
>being
>photographed and fingerprinted at least three times. At each location (and
>we remember at least four locations) we were instructed on Mexican tax,
>labor, housing, and criminal law and that we were required to obey their
>laws or face the consequences. We could not protest any of the
>government's
>actions or we would be committing a felony. We paid out four thousand
>dollars in fees and bribes to complete the process. When this was done we
>could legally bring in our household goods that were held by US customs in
>Loredo Texas. This meant we rented furniture in Mexico while awaiting our
>goods. There were extensive fees involved here that the company paid.
>
> We could not buy a home and were required to rent at very high rates and
>under contract and compliance with Mexican law.
>
> We were required to get a Mexican drivers license. This was an amazing
>process. The company arranged for the licensing agency to come to our
>headquarters location with their photography and finger print equipment
>and
>the laminating machine. We showed our US license, were photographed and
>fingerprinted again and issued the license instantly after paying out a
>six
>dollar fee. We did not take a written or driving test and never received
>instructions on the rules of the road. Our only instruction was never give
>a
>policeman your license if stopped and asked. We were instructed to hold it
>against the inside window away from his grasp. If he got his hands on it
>you
>would have to pay ransom to get it back.
>
> We then had to pay and file Mexican income tax annually using the number
>of our FM3 as our ID number. The companies Mexican accountants did this
>for
>us and we just signed what they prepared. I was about twenty legal size
>pages annually.
>
> The FM 3 was good for three years and renewable for two more after
>paying
>more fees.
>
> Leaving the country meant turning in the FM# and certifying we were
>leaving no debts behind and no outstanding legal affairs (warrants,
>tickets
>or liens) before our household goods were released to customs.
>
> It was a real adventure and If any of our senators or congressmen went
>through it once they would have a different attitude toward Mexico
Click to expand...

Or, he could have just walked across the border.
 
You can't shoot unarmed peasants, including women and children. Those of you advocating it should be ashamed. You can interdict them, turn them back or arrest them.
Click to expand...
OK, how about we just shoot the coyotes bringing them in? Like the bozo who got his fool self killed on the boarder this week? He'd been caught and deported but never prosecuted numerous times.
 
Simplicity received from the internet...

Dig a moat the length of the Mexican border...


Use the dirt to raise the levies in New Orleans...


Put the pesky Florida alligators in the moat.




Or you can turn the whole problem over to Sheriff Joe Arpaio...





Any other problems you would like for me to resolve? :D :D :D
 
2ndamd said:
I would not have responded to this post except that you suggest racism. You Sir, have no idea the racism that my wife and I have encountered. So, I am deeply offended at you suggesting racism because I want people to follow the law. Just as people do not need to post racist remarks in this forum so, to do people not get to suggest racism with no empirical evidence to support their claim. Think twice before you pull out your racism card. It doesn't work here my friend. You have just been checked and you stand corrected. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Reread the section that I quoted from your post...
2ndamd said:
Meanwhile, in the real world, the country is being over run with people who have no respect for the law. They come into the country illegally. If we do not enforce the law of our boarders then, what law CAN we enforce????? I mean the illegal aliens may think it is okay to take somone's property. Well, we did not enforce one law why would we suspect that they would know which laws we do enforce and which ones we do not.
Click to expand...

Hmmm... any possible racial overtones in that? :rolleyes: I was also referring to those who have zero respect for human life and would as soon shoot illegal border crosses like dogs and leave them for the buzzards.
 
Dig a moat the length of the Mexican border...


Use the dirt to raise the levies in New Orleans...


Put the pesky Florida alligators in the moat.
Click to expand...

I like it but I fear we would endanger the gators and feed the Mexicans.
 
gator tacos ? Mmm. Tastes like chicken.

LOL!!

We really need a government with a backbone ! We need to start at the local levels of government and elect those that match our views and then work our way up.

Get out and vote and encourage your friends to vote. This is the only way to make a difference. I applaud the minutemen and what they are doing. If I was stateside in that part of the counrty I would help out, and I encourage those of US that are in that part of the country to go out and help. Also, for any of those that are part of the minute man project where can we go to donate / join ?
 
If we build a 50 ft wall they will come along with a 51 ft. ladder.
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Then we shoot anyone with a 51 foot ladder... :D


Why is this "principle" so complicated?

What part of "Keep Out" don't they understand?

Moreover, ask yourselves why we can't make them understand?

Notwithstanding the Liberals want to invite 300 people into their uptown apartment... even if they can't accomodate them.

Hmmmm... Could this be the same mentality that created the revolving door penal system?

Uh...there's no space there either!

Gee whiz... What can be the problem?

Do "they" even know the principle of "where to draw the line?"
How about the border LINE?
 
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Like I said before give them guns and point them south. ;)

There has been criticism of this as being too radical but I would counter with asking the question of where would we be if the 18th century superpower France had not provided arms, ships and training to our own revolution to throw off British rule? The government of Mexico has commonly been referred to as a kleptocracy. I have Mexican friends who describe it as much worse. "Corrupt narco-tyranny" would be too polite a term.

Having the illegals here to send money home merely props up the bunch of crooks who exploit their families at home. So is it morally acceptable for us to NOT arm them and send them back?

We have free speech, RKBA, the right of association, religious freedom and a host of other freedoms which are unknown in Mexico. So I'd challenge anyone who believes we should live and let live to take a tour down there and see how really bad it is. :mad:
 
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