Illegal Aliens: Solutions

I guess I am a little suprised. I think the wall would be cheaper than processing all the illegals that we do now. Think about it. The wall would be cost effective not cost hinderance. How many illegals do we have now? An estimated 11 million?

The wall in Berlin is apples to oranges comparision for sure and does not dignify a response. Yeah. Like people we wanting to go to east Berlin :barf:
They were going there for other reasons than to live a free life in the case of illegals coming to America.

There is a way to process immigrants in a legal manner. Only when someone has been processed legally do they experience the true freedoms of America. Like the right to vote and to work....with out having a bus drive up in front of the store and have INS take 30 employees that are illegal away. I hope that all immigrants get a chance to experience America with out fear of removal. But the only way to make that happen is through legal immigration

Build the wall! and let freedom ring for those who wish to immigrate in the way the U.S. Government has set up as legal. If there is something wrong with this process than work to resolve the system through the system. You don't get to break the law because it doesn't work for you.

I guess if illegals are pardon then I can own a .50 BMG in Califonia (Peoples Republic). Because the Californian law does not work for me? Oh. And what if someone said I like to drink and drive. I reject our country's laws on DUI because they do not work for me? Yeah your right. just go ahead and break the law when it doesn't fit for you......oh wait a minute. that's called anarchy and not Government. OOPS! Then there would be no boarders or laws.

Talk about emotion and common sense being seperated.:rolleyes:
 
I want a fence...count me in. I want the security. I want the peace of mind knowing that hard working Americans aren't paying to support the 700,000 or so ilegal immigrants who sneak in every year. I think if you come to America, you should be able to speak the language. I don't want to have to look for a translater when I hire a landscaper or roofer or whatever. I don't want Spanish as a mandatory second language in grade school. The illegal immigrants who are taking jobs away from Americans aren't even locally spending the money they make. They're not supporting other local businesses with the earnings...they're sticking it in an envelope and mailing it back to Mexico or Guatamala or wherever. It's time for immigration reform, reduction, and enforcement.
 
Please, there are other ways. Don't let your emotion and anger get ahead of your reason.
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Thank you!

Ok guys, the border is 2,000 miles long. The wall idea is a red herring that simply discredits our cause, because trust me when I say, it really does sound crazy and ignorant to people not with our cause. It also isn't feasible, 2,000 miles of 20 foot high secured wall with a trench at the bottom, razor wire everywhere etc... guess what, they are just going to dig under it 300 at a time, then when the border patrol comes maybe 3 will get arrested and try again next day. Thats assuming we have the hundreds of billions required to build it.

Next, a fence. Please tell me you are not thinking of a fence. Guess what, we have a fence on several sections of the border. Actually its more like thousands of bars of steel poking through the ground, much better then a fence. The US government pays a guy to go around in a truck looking for holes in the fence, then repairing them. Hes been doing this for a long time now, and seeing as how he replaces about 20 holes a day, the fence is simply a patchwork of repairs by now.

Next, manning a fence or wall. Don't be ridiculous, even a man every mile and you've now got 2,000 guardposts with 2,000 guards.

You've all got Great Wall of China syndrome! My proposal would be much, much, MUCH cheaper and far more effective. No wall is impenetrable! They will just use gliders to get over, 1,000 pounds of homemade HE to blast through a segment etc.
 
with orders to shoot to kill any infiltration of our border
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This is the part that I object to. Do you get bonus points if it's an unarmed pregnant woman? You know, a twofer?

The wall in Berlin is apples to oranges comparision for sure and does not dignify a response. Yeah. Like people we wanting to go to east Berlin
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A wall is a wall, whether designed to keep people in or out.

Stop trying to fool others..Abndoc..you just want open borders
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Not true. I just disagree on the how. Now, I know what you want, but what are you going to DO?
 
I don't hold public office..but maybe I should run since good leaders in politics are too scarce...outside of that all I can do is put pressure as a voter and constituent...
 
Go for it, Aspen 1964! We can always use a person in office who is not bought and paid for. Someone like Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Maricopa County, Az.
He says he will swear out a posse and will apprehend and arrest illegals crossing the border.

If you don't run, put the pressure on. Our government is like a huge boulder. It doesn't want to move. But if you push long enough and get some friends to help, you might get it rolling. This is what the Minutemen are doing and look at what is happening now.

We have a system to redress grievances. Our elected officials will hear our voices if we yell loud and long. Those that don't, do your best to vote them out. This is the beginning of the solution.

Closing and control of the border, however it is done, will require the government. Thats where the resources of men, money and technology are. For all of you who want to do something, and have an affect on the solution to this mess, pressure your representatives. We are supposed to be a government for and by the people. It's time for the PEOPLE to speak!
 
I support the Minuteman Project..and I condemn the negative, stupid comments made by our President Neglect...I support Kyle but not McCain..nor do I support Governess Janet(miserable failure)..and even though it may bemostly political spotlighting, I applaud Arpaio's efforts .at least it puts some fear of the law in illegal aliens' minds...and may be one stepping stone closer to address the problem...I hope more states follow suit with various anti-illegal entry enforced laws...
 
It also isn't feasible, 2,000 miles of 20 foot high secured wall with a trench at the bottom, razor wire everywhere etc...
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Not feasible? Hmmm.... Let see. A Nation that in its history has:

a. Throughly bloodied the nose of the most powerful military on the planet to win its freedom (with no small assistance from France).

b. Claimed and conquered a continent for itself.

c. Absorbed and made in part its own millions of diverse peoples, cultures and traditions.

d. In league with its Allies liberated two other continents and utterly smashed to RUBBLE two of the most racist and homicidal regimes our species has seen. Then rebuild them in our own image.

e. Gone the freaking MOON and come back again despite dramatic mishap on occasion.

f. Outwaited and ultimately out spent a soul stifling rival philosophy of government.

And you're saying building one frelling fence is "Not feasible"?

Silly me, I seem to recall another people who did just that very thing 2000 some years ago. Granted it took them numerous generations to do that, but of course they had to rely on brute muscle power to build their wall.

Funny thing, that wall still stands for the most part. And so do that people.

Or do you suggest that we Americans are not up to the task? :confused:
 
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If it were up to me

Build a wall, a huge one.

Mine the border for the first 300 yds

put sentinel posts about every 1000yds or so with snipers. Also use said border for USMC sniper training in real time/target environment.

Use said sentinel posts and charge per gun with bag limit to custumers for live shoots within the 300 yd mined area

If they can make it past those obstacles, then by all means, they are dedicated to being an American so we have Kiosks set up for green cards. Station distance of kiosks to be determined.
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For those currently here.

Encorce the laws, increase the fines of those that employ illegals on a daily scale. If no compliance, said employers would get jail time. Once jobs are removed for the illegals there's really no reason to be here, but just in case.

The male illegals who refuse to go home for lack of work will be rounded up and put on the Border to build the walls, sentinel posts, and mine tests for their jail time. No need to overwork our own prisons and jails for these Aholes. Sheriff Arapio in Arizona should be made to oversee this project on a national scale, or at least the Southwestern states.

For the women, make legal brothels where they will be forced to have sex to earn enough money to buy their freedom BACK to Mexico. These brothels will be 500yds from the border. If they should get pregnant or diseased, send them to Mexico immediately.

For the children of illegals, who cares? The parents were stupid enough to put themselves into this situation knowing the consequences. Send them back to Mexico to struggle on the streets by themselves or put them to hard labor building the walls and sentinel posts on the border. A child should not be a citizen simply because the mother was on US soil. Any child born to an ILLEGAL is ILLEGAL as well and can not be a US citizen.

If they want to run from the encampment, they may, as long as they run South to their homeland.

Yea, it's a bit extreme, but I'm sure the problem would disappear shortly after these were implemented fully.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde
 
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If they can make it past those obstacles, then by all means, they are dedicated to being an American so we have Kiosks set up for green cards. Station distance of kiosks to be determined.
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Far side of yonder Veld amigo. Mind the lions in the grass and the leopards in the trees." :D
 
CobrayCommando,

I asked it once before and I?ll ask it again; do you have a fence in your backyard? Do you think it?s worthwhile for a rancher to fence in thousands of acres of pastures? Do you expect either type of fence to keep out 100% of those that want to get in? This isn?t a rhetorical question, I really want to know your answer to this.

Ok guys, the border is 2,000 miles long. The wall idea is a red herring that simply discredits our cause, because trust me when I say, it really does sound crazy and ignorant to people not with our cause.
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I?m gonna call BS on that. I talk to many, many people that are wholeheartedly behind a fence. In fact, the only people I talk to (short of internet types) that are against a fence or wall fall into three categories; open border people, people that are only against it because of the cost or, for a select few, because of the perceived increase in danger to BP agents, not because they think it?s ?crazy? or ?ignorant?. So I?m gonna have to ask you to substantiate this claim that putting a wall along the border somehow discredits ?our cause?.

guess what, they are just going to dig under it 300 at a time, then when the border patrol comes maybe 3 will get arrested and try again next day.
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Of course those trying to get in can find ways around a fence or a wall, that?s always the way law enforcement and the like has gone; one group comes up with a way to stop something and the other finds a way around it. Tossing your hands in the air and saying ?they?re just going to dig under it? is defeatist. In the face of documented proof from the Border Patrol that a fence and/or wall does provide a measure of deterrence, how can you claim that it is a useless idea?

Next, a fence. Please tell me you are not thinking of a fence. Guess what, we have a fence on several sections of the border. Actually its more like thousands of bars of steel poking through the ground, much better then a fence?the fence is simply a patchwork of repairs by now.
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Actually the U.S. has fences that range in design from a knee high cable to 15-20 foot high solid steel "walls" topped with concertina wire, multi layered barrier walls, a river, and nothing at all along our southern border. All the barriers accomplish some measure of success in deterring EWI. Again, this claim that a fence does nothing is pure-dee ignorance. The Border Patrol itself says that fences and walls do help keep people out. Counterbalanced against nothing at all along the border, your claim is asinine.

Next, manning a fence or wall. Don't be ridiculous, even a man every mile and you've now got 2,000 guardposts with 2,000 guards.
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That?s where technology comes in. Look at San Diego as an example of how the proper setup can be effective. Three walls with no-man?s land in between them all filled with various gadgets to act as a force multiplier mean that a far smaller number of agents can now effectively manage a large expanse of border. Take into consideration that a good wall/fence will most likely deter some percentage of people from crossing, and the number of agents needed to deal with them becomes fewer than those needed now. Matter of fact, done properly this kind of setup makes apprehending those that do cross (even if we assume the numbers remain the same) far easier.
 
CobrayComando,

My proposal would be much, much, MUCH cheaper and far more effective.
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Ok then, tell us all what your solution is. We're all dying to hear it. If you mean the "solution" you mentioned earlier in this thread, you really don't know what you're talking about.

Your "solution" from an earlier post:

If we were really serious we would get the NSA on it, dropping miniature microphones linked to a super computer to tell when and where people are crossing the border.
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Oh, that's cheap. :rolleyes: Moreover, you've clearly never utilized sensors or talked to those that have. Sensors (of any type) are certainly useful and should be used, but there is no way in hell microphones are going to be completely effective (as you seem to insinuate). First it's virtually impossible for some sort of microphone to distinguish between animals and humans. Second, even if you could distinguish between animals and humans, in nearly every place along the border it is perfectly legitimate for humans to stand and walk right along the border. Just because there is some group of people walking along, doesn't necessarily mean it's illegal aliens. Moreover, the Border Patrol already uses thousands of sensors nationally of various types to aid their job, and yet millions still manage to get through. Certainly these sensors help the guys in the field, but they haven't and they never will (and with today's technology) fully stop people from crossing the border. For a myriad of reasons, some of which I mentioned and some of which I don't really feel like delving into, sensors are useful but nowhere near completely effective.

We would have Schweizer RU-38's patrolling day and night, from there they can just turn on FLIR or night vision and track the illegals, designating them with an IR beam so the tracker team could pick it up
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The Border Patrol already uses helicopters (Blackhawk's as well less sophisticated helo's), planes, and even predator UAV's. They certainly help the guys on the ground, but even under the best of circumstances, a group of five to ten guys can literally disappear in the underbrush (and groups of 5-10 guys crossing hundreds of times a day all along the border adds up to big numbers). I don't care if you have FLIR, IR, or anything else. I'm not trying to say those things aren't useful, but they'll never (with current technology) be able to fully replace guys on the ground patrolling an area.

...with mounted (on horseback) tracker teams on call 24/7...Horses are fast and fairly silent, and offer an excellent POV.
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This also already exists, it's called the United States Border Patrol. They've been tracking groups since 1924. And they've been using horses, ATV's, dogs, many types of aerial support, technology, camera's, and plain old-fashioned elbow grease for more than 80 years and it still hasn't been enough. And they're good enough at tracking that they are the only law enforcement organization in the nation that is considered in the eyes of the court to have "seen" somebody cross the border when in actuality they just saw a given set of tracks crossing the border and tracked the people leaving the prints to a final apprehension.

What I'm getting at here is that your "solution" isn't a bad set of suggestions, it's just not going to stop everything. In fact, in essence, it's pretty much what already exists. Your solution would probably even be less useful than a fence as far as deterrence goes.
 
I love how the NSA is building a databank of recording all of the 1000's of phone calls and spying on it's own citizens. And that's okay for us to spend money to spy on own citizenry. BUT YOU WILL NOT SPEND THE MONEY TO PROTECT OUR BOARDERS FROM ILLEGALS WHO ARE NOT EVEN CITIZENS OF THESE UNITED STATES??????

My God. Are we serious about this? We can spend 3 billion dollars to put a robot on Mars. But NNNOOOOOO!!!!!! We can not have a wall that is maintained and manned to protect our boarders???????? COME ON! A FLIPPIN ROBOT ON MARS MEANS MORE THAN NATIONALISM????????

I am so sick an tired of this administartions policys. Better than Slick Willy for sure. But, not MUCH better. I think I am going to start voting Libertarian. I mean the govt spends countless money on junk programs and fan fares. But, anything having to do with an actual solution to a problem (ie a WALL) and it's "Oh that would be too expensive. Let's put another robot on Mars. That would only cost us 6 more billion dollars." Then, we can all run to our computers, log on to the robot's website and see another planet. WOW!!!!! COOL!!!!!! YEA!!!!!!!

Meanwhile, in the real world, the country is being over run with people who have no respect for the law. They come into the country illegally. If we do not enforce the law of our boarders then, what law CAN we enforce????? I mean the illegal aliens may think it is okay to take somone's property. Well, we did not enforce one law why would we suspect that they would know which laws we do enforce and which ones we do not.

And to the NSA jerks that may be recording this.....go to hell! I am going to see your budget cut for sure. I mean the NSA and ATF sit around thinking of new ways to mess with the citizens of this country. But, let's have 11,000,0000 people walking around that are not even citizens of the US. MY GOD! WHERE HAS THIS COUNTRY'S PRIORITIES GONE?
 
Silly me, I seem to recall another people who did just that very thing 2000 some years ago. Granted it took them numerous generations to do that, but of course they had to rely on brute muscle power to build their wall.

Funny thing, that wall still stands for the most part. And so do that people.

Or do you suggest that we Americans are not up to the task?
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Yeah, we all know how incredibly effective that wall was! I'm not suggesting we can't do it, we can all stick 2x4s up our asses to should we do that? It would prove our good old fashioned American know how. Its hilarious that you chose that example, because I was going to use it to prove my point! Thousands died building it, vast treasures were expended, and in the end it accomplished nothing. What wall has.


Of course those trying to get in can find ways around a fence or a wall, that?s always the way law enforcement and the like has gone; one group comes up with a way to stop something and the other finds a way around it. Tossing your hands in the air and saying ?they?re just going to dig under it? is defeatist. In the face of documented proof from the Border Patrol that a fence and/or wall does provide a measure of deterrence, how can you claim that it is a useless idea?
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It is defeatist. I wouldn't have supported the Maginot line idea either. France had Belgium on its flank... we have two oceans. Show me this documented proof, you apparently have not seen the fence that we have already built, that gets breached TWENTY ****ING TIMES A NIGHT. And thats only a few miles long... you'd think they would just walk around it right? Wrong!

That?s where technology comes in. Look at San Diego as an example of how the proper setup can be effective. Three walls with no-man?s land in between them all filled with various gadgets to act as a force multiplier mean that a far smaller number of agents can now effectively manage a large expanse of border. Take into consideration that a good wall/fence will most likely deter some percentage of people from crossing, and the number of agents needed to deal with them becomes fewer than those needed now. Matter of fact, done properly this kind of setup makes apprehending those that do cross (even if we assume the numbers remain the same) far easier.

The Border Patrol already uses helicopters (Blackhawk's as well less sophisticated helo's), planes, and even predator UAV's. They certainly help the guys on the ground, but even under the best of circumstances, a group of five to ten guys can literally disappear in the underbrush (and groups of 5-10 guys crossing hundreds of times a day all along the border adds up to big numbers). I don't care if you have FLIR, IR, or anything else. I'm not trying to say those things aren't useful, but they'll never (with current technology) be able to fully replace guys on the ground patrolling an area.
This also already exists, it's called the United States Border Patrol. They've been tracking groups since 1924. And they've been using horses, ATV's, dogs, many types of aerial support, technology, camera's, and plain old-fashioned elbow grease for more than 80 years and it still hasn't been enough. And they're good enough at tracking that they are the only law enforcement organization in the nation that is considered in the eyes of the court to have "seen" somebody cross the border when in actuality they just saw a given set of tracks crossing the border and tracked the people leaving the prints to a final apprehension.

What I'm getting at here is that your "solution" isn't a bad set of suggestions, it's just not going to stop everything. In fact, in essence, it's pretty much what already exists. Your solution would probably even be less useful than a fence as far as deterrence goes.
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Sorry, while the San Diego wall idea may be effective, it is simply too expensive to build along the entire border.

I'm not trying to say those things aren't useful, but they'll never (with current technology) be able to fully replace guys on the ground patrolling an area.
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Which is why I said that we should beef up mounted tracker patrols. Why did you write this after reading what I said?

My ideas would be effective if they were implemented on the proper scale. The border patrol is doing well right now, they just need 5 times the budget and manpower. ****can the BATFE, downsize the IRS, and with that money you could have a border patrol 30 times the size it is now, for no extra strain on the budget whatsoever. Big difference from a 20 billion dollar wall eh?

Guys, the wall idea isn't even being suggested seriously now. According to Neil Cavuto (who listens to him anyway, I know....), the wall idea is "out". Other suggestions are being considered.

It was a ridiculous idea to begin with.... If our border was 1/10th the size it is, then I might consider it. Look at all the people that got over the Berlin Wall for gods sake, and that wall was short with soldiers all around it.
 
Show me this documented proof [that a fence and/or wall does provide a measure of deterrence], you apparently have not seen the fence that we have already built, that gets breached TWENTY ****ING TIMES A NIGHT. And thats only a few miles long... you'd think they would just walk around it right? Wrong!
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First, yes I have seen the fence (really it’s fences since we have so many different types, but I digress). I’ve seen multi-layered fences, chain link fences, barbwire fences, cables, and solid steel walls. I’ll restate what I’ve said, where there is a fence (or natural barrier) there is an impediment to illegal entry. As I have willingly conceded, a fence is never going to completely eliminate illegal entry, but it helps slow it down, and slows it down significantly. In an April 2004 USA Today article by Valerie Alvord, according to CBP officials apprehensions in a particular area of San Diego fell from approximately 25,000 per year to about 3,000 after the installation of a fence .
Sorry, while the San Diego wall idea may be effective, it is simply too expensive to build along the entire border.
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Apparently neither the U.S. House or Senate believe it is too expensive. Nor do the majority of Americans; a wide variety of surveys have shown that anywhere from 57%-62% of Americans favor a border fence, and only about 25% actually oppose one. There are acceptable expenditures of taxpayer dollars, and it would seem that the majority of people feel this is one. While I’m not suggesting anytime a majority of people think something is worth spending money on we (the United States) should do so. I’m merely pointing out that you seem to hold a somewhat radical view; that in fact a fence is effective, but costs too much.
...with that money you could have a border patrol 30 times the size it is now, for no extra strain on the budget whatsoever. Big difference from a 20 billion dollar wall eh?
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Really, you need to engage your brain before your mouth. Do you have any idea how big the budget would be for the Border Patrol if it was “30 times the size it is now”? Two hundred and thirty four billion dollars. “Big difference from a 20 billion dollar wall eh?” :rolleyes: Seriously dude, try reading some facts about this issue before you bloviate about it.
Guys, the wall idea isn't even being suggested seriously now.
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The U.s House passed a bill authorizing a fence. The U.S. Senate passed a bill authorizing a fence. Seems like the wall idea is not only being suggested, it's about to be implemented. How’s that shoe taste? :D :p
Which is why I said that we should beef up mounted tracker patrols. Why did you write this after reading what I said?
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Because you suggested that these high tech ideas of yours would “solve” illegal immigration, when the fact of the matter is that while some of them were a bit ridiculous (microphones on the border), none of what you suggested is anything different than what is being done this very second. Your “solution” is (paraphrased), “do everything that’s being done right now, just more of it”. That sir, is an asinine solution to a problem. It’s been said that a good definition of insane is to do the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome. I’m not trying to say you’re insane, but your ideas about what will and will not work regarding illegal immigration are absolutely insane and a bit idiotic.


I’ve responded to everything you asked me, I'd like you to return the courtesy. I have three times now asked you one specific question, which you refuse to answer, I'd like an answer; Do you have a fence in your own yard? If so, do you expect it to keep everybody out that might want to try and enter you property. If not, why do you have a fence?
 
I do not have a fence in my yard.

I am so glad that we are......you know what? Never mind. I am not going to defend my position any further. It is futile to argue. This is trite. For one final time:

BUILD THE WALL!!!!
 
Just a thought

Would this national sales tax change anyone's mind? The illegals would pay taxes just like anyone that purchases items (so would drug dealers and whores).

Of course they would still send money back to Mexico.
 
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