Illegal Aliens: Solutions
- Thread starter Al Norris
- Start date
steelheart
Moderator
Put them in prison - after all, they are criminals.
Let the flame-fest begin!!
Let the flame-fest begin!!
CobrayCommando
Moderator
Put 11 million people in prison? That's like 5 times the capacity of the prison system...
Abndoc, it is a misdemeanor...
Which means that steelheart's solution is dead wrong. We don't imprison for misdemeanors. [rhetoric] That's even assuming you can find and catch them all. [/rhetoric]
I would hazard the guess that your other post in the "problem" thread is too simplistic, since this simplistic solution will not work.
Which means that steelheart's solution is dead wrong. We don't imprison for misdemeanors. [rhetoric] That's even assuming you can find and catch them all. [/rhetoric]
I would hazard the guess that your other post in the "problem" thread is too simplistic, since this simplistic solution will not work.
http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/newsroom/news_releases/archives/2005_press_releases/0122005/12162005.xml
In Eagle Pass/Del Rio There is a program known as Operation Streamline II. The jail and prosecute all illegal border crosers, except those with kids. They are sentenced from 30 to 180 days in jail. This include Mexican nationals and OTMs who were previously released with a court date. Seems to be working along that 50 mile stretch of border. Even drug busts are up. A second offense may result in a felony. This requires cooperation between the local jails and law enforcement.
Which demonstrates that if we secure our borders with a mandate like that then dealing with the illegal alien problem will be easier. Until we get that southern border secured....anything else we do is a stopgap measure.
steelheart
Moderator
That's part of the problem - it should be a felony with mandatory prison time attached to it.
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Foreign Aid
Near as I can tell, Mexico receives 31 million in U.S. foreign aid. They would run out of money after 310 illegal entries at $100,000 per.
Mexico has $450 billion sent back to their country every year by legal and illegal Mexicans living in America. Compare this to a GDP of $600 billion for Mexico and you will see why we will get no help there.
The sheer logistics of sending back 12,000,000 Latinos is just not manageable. They will resist. I'm not talking about armed resistance, but the use of our own judicial system against us. Each one will want a court appointed attorney. Each one will want his day in court. Each one will want to appeal the decision if it goes against him. The courts will be clogged up until they cannot function.
The illegal has nothing to go home to. They have nothing to lose by fighting to stay, and everything to gain.
Like it or not, I think they are here to stay.
American, and multi-national corporations, who have no allegiance to anyone but the bottom line, have a great deal of money invested in this cheap labor supply. Since it is their dollars that help to elect our polititians, by financing their campaigns, the politicos are really there for them, not us.
So, what can we do? Pressure polititians. Don't vote for those who don't toe the line. Vote for and support those who do.
Seal and control the borders. Deport any illegal prisoner now in prison, after the borders are controlled, except murderers and child molesters. I think we can afford to let them rot where they are.
Accept the reality that these people are here. Require them to learn English. Teach in english only in our schools. Make english classes available. Turn them into citizens. Hopefully, in a couple generations, their children will be Americans of Mexican descent, but Americans first.
And before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, I know that illegals come from other places than Mexico. Feel free to insert any ethnicity you desire. Most of what I've posted will still apply.
Near as I can tell, Mexico receives 31 million in U.S. foreign aid. They would run out of money after 310 illegal entries at $100,000 per.
Mexico has $450 billion sent back to their country every year by legal and illegal Mexicans living in America. Compare this to a GDP of $600 billion for Mexico and you will see why we will get no help there.
The sheer logistics of sending back 12,000,000 Latinos is just not manageable. They will resist. I'm not talking about armed resistance, but the use of our own judicial system against us. Each one will want a court appointed attorney. Each one will want his day in court. Each one will want to appeal the decision if it goes against him. The courts will be clogged up until they cannot function.
The illegal has nothing to go home to. They have nothing to lose by fighting to stay, and everything to gain.
Like it or not, I think they are here to stay.
American, and multi-national corporations, who have no allegiance to anyone but the bottom line, have a great deal of money invested in this cheap labor supply. Since it is their dollars that help to elect our polititians, by financing their campaigns, the politicos are really there for them, not us.
So, what can we do? Pressure polititians. Don't vote for those who don't toe the line. Vote for and support those who do.
Seal and control the borders. Deport any illegal prisoner now in prison, after the borders are controlled, except murderers and child molesters. I think we can afford to let them rot where they are.
Accept the reality that these people are here. Require them to learn English. Teach in english only in our schools. Make english classes available. Turn them into citizens. Hopefully, in a couple generations, their children will be Americans of Mexican descent, but Americans first.
And before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, I know that illegals come from other places than Mexico. Feel free to insert any ethnicity you desire. Most of what I've posted will still apply.
You go see the Federal Judge not a local judge
The next time you get caught you could be tried for a felony...
While county jail doesnt approach prison time at least they spend some time in jail and go before a judge...
The main purpose of putting them in the county jails is that it frees up the border patrol agents from babysitting them.
In Eagle Pass in 2,000 there were 81,000 arrests it is now less than 30,000. This was done without adding any manpower. A local shelter had 24 illegals on Jan 1, 2005 on Jan 1, 2006 he had nobody. It appears the good father is going to have to figure out what to do with the donations for the care of illegal aliens.
MicroBalrog
New member
1. Illegal immigration should be made a felony.
Not because they will be imprisoned for a longer time. Because they won't, because there's not enough prison space.
However, once it is a felony, any citizen witnessing them crossing the border can arrest them.
Don't discourage Minutemen of all stripes. Encourage them, and train them. Let them go out there and not merely report, but arrest illegal immigrants.
2.Under current US precedent, the right to trial by jury can be denied ? rightly or not ? to non-citizens. Use it for something good ? for a simple thing. Make confiscation of all cash and mandatory deportation the crime of the illegal immgirants. Make the principle simple. Once it is proven they are not legally in the country, put them on trucks, ferry them out.
3.Make it legal and simple for people who care about the law and want to apply for a job in america to do so. Make legal immgiration easy, and illegal immigration difficult.
4.Build a fence on the border. Mine the border. Whatever. People are not supposed to be just wlaking across a national border unless you have some really special deals with the neighboring counties.
5.For the problem with illegal immgirants that also happen to be burglars or thieves, Castle Doctrine laws must be passed in all border states, and the citizenry must be encouraged to be armed.
Just my few cents from a non-citizens.
Not because they will be imprisoned for a longer time. Because they won't, because there's not enough prison space.
However, once it is a felony, any citizen witnessing them crossing the border can arrest them.
Don't discourage Minutemen of all stripes. Encourage them, and train them. Let them go out there and not merely report, but arrest illegal immigrants.
2.Under current US precedent, the right to trial by jury can be denied ? rightly or not ? to non-citizens. Use it for something good ? for a simple thing. Make confiscation of all cash and mandatory deportation the crime of the illegal immgirants. Make the principle simple. Once it is proven they are not legally in the country, put them on trucks, ferry them out.
3.Make it legal and simple for people who care about the law and want to apply for a job in america to do so. Make legal immgiration easy, and illegal immigration difficult.
4.Build a fence on the border. Mine the border. Whatever. People are not supposed to be just wlaking across a national border unless you have some really special deals with the neighboring counties.
5.For the problem with illegal immgirants that also happen to be burglars or thieves, Castle Doctrine laws must be passed in all border states, and the citizenry must be encouraged to be armed.
Just my few cents from a non-citizens.
This country was BUILT on immigration. My parents and all of yours are immegrants. The problem IMHO comes from the fact that LEGAL immigrations is so incredibly difficult. One of my dearest friends has been trying to get his citizenship in the US for six years. We need to streamline immigration, allow immigrants without criminal records to become citizens. 11 million more people paying taxes. In addition I believe we should shore up our borders and punish those immigrant criminals who keep sneaking into our country. Its the ones with the records who are the problems. Not the poor slobs who are out picking strawberries.
1) Bring military home and put it on the border
2) the Minutemen project needs to keep growing
3) Build a wall/fence along the border
4) State and local official need to start arresting illegals and doing their part
5) Massive legal immigration needs to be stopped and immigration in general should probably be stopped until things get under control
6) Door to door checks on citizenship in mexican neighborhoods in a LAWFUL AND CONSTITUTIONAL manner are desperately needed.
6) Illegal alien boasters (people who shout into the camera that they are illegals) should be arrested as admitted felons
7) Illegal aliens should be made felons
8) Illegals caught in the future crossing the border and located in the country past a certain date should not just be deported but should be given 6 months to a year in prison at hard labor (now that's doing jobs American's don't want to do!) before they are deported to deter them and all from trying again
9) Employers who knowingly hire illegals for cheap labor should be fined at least and given jail time at worst
10) Work places should be checked for illegals IN A LAWFUL CONSTITUTIONAL MANNER
11) Illegals hanging around loitering waiting for work should be arrested for loitering and further investigated while they are held for the charge
12) Federal agents should home in on illegals of Mexican origin as the vast majority of them come from Mexico.
13) Greencards/Visas should not be issued to any further foreigners except reissues to those who already have them until situation is brought under control
14) NAFTA should be scrapped
15) The Mexican government should be threatened with military force if they keep supporting this invasion and demanded that they control their own side of the border. Pandering to the Mexican government must stop. All crys of "racism" "Xenophobia" and the other PC catchwords should be laughed out of court when viewing the language of the so called Reconquista movement lead by such organizations as the National Council fo La Raza (the Race).
16) Public benefits should be denied to illegals.
17) English only laws should be passed and/or enforced. (As in english only education, legal and business contracts in all circles and institutions in our society. Nothing to do with banning the speaking and learning of foreign languages)
18) Children born to illegals should not make them or their parents automatically citizens of America
19) Illegals in the armed forces should be discharged and deported as mercenaries
Can these things be done easily? No. Can they be done overnight? No. Will it cost a lot of money and manpower? Yes.
It is a BIG problem. It is a mess that we closed our eyes too and has been growing for 20+ years and it will take that long to clean it up. It will take a lot of time, money and manpower. But we can't just let this happen and pretend it will be okay if we just give them anmesty and let them stay and keep coming.
These people are not the least bit interested in becoming Americans. (Something that should never be overlooked) The vast overwhelming majority of them are Mexicans. Mexico where they come from, that's where their loyalties lie. They are an invasion and many of them becoming more and more militant.
It's going to take a lot of stepping on PC toes and not letting guilt manipulators scare us into silence or scare us into backpeddling.
This might mean sending back someone who just wants to send money back home, but there is no one to blame but themselves for breaking the law and the PC polititians who have let this go on for 20 some odd years. This problem has been brewing for a long time and it's going to take a long time to clean it up.
Saying, "there are too many here, it can't be done" and other such arguments is shortsighted. It's like the Founding Fathers saying "there are too many Redcoats here it can't be done." Winning a war starts with fighting one battle at a time, it's not going to be done overnight but you have to start somewhere and commit to see it through until your countries safety and security are ensured.
2) the Minutemen project needs to keep growing
3) Build a wall/fence along the border
4) State and local official need to start arresting illegals and doing their part
5) Massive legal immigration needs to be stopped and immigration in general should probably be stopped until things get under control
6) Door to door checks on citizenship in mexican neighborhoods in a LAWFUL AND CONSTITUTIONAL manner are desperately needed.
6) Illegal alien boasters (people who shout into the camera that they are illegals) should be arrested as admitted felons
7) Illegal aliens should be made felons
8) Illegals caught in the future crossing the border and located in the country past a certain date should not just be deported but should be given 6 months to a year in prison at hard labor (now that's doing jobs American's don't want to do!) before they are deported to deter them and all from trying again
9) Employers who knowingly hire illegals for cheap labor should be fined at least and given jail time at worst
10) Work places should be checked for illegals IN A LAWFUL CONSTITUTIONAL MANNER
11) Illegals hanging around loitering waiting for work should be arrested for loitering and further investigated while they are held for the charge
12) Federal agents should home in on illegals of Mexican origin as the vast majority of them come from Mexico.
13) Greencards/Visas should not be issued to any further foreigners except reissues to those who already have them until situation is brought under control
14) NAFTA should be scrapped
15) The Mexican government should be threatened with military force if they keep supporting this invasion and demanded that they control their own side of the border. Pandering to the Mexican government must stop. All crys of "racism" "Xenophobia" and the other PC catchwords should be laughed out of court when viewing the language of the so called Reconquista movement lead by such organizations as the National Council fo La Raza (the Race).
16) Public benefits should be denied to illegals.
17) English only laws should be passed and/or enforced. (As in english only education, legal and business contracts in all circles and institutions in our society. Nothing to do with banning the speaking and learning of foreign languages)
18) Children born to illegals should not make them or their parents automatically citizens of America
19) Illegals in the armed forces should be discharged and deported as mercenaries
Can these things be done easily? No. Can they be done overnight? No. Will it cost a lot of money and manpower? Yes.
It is a BIG problem. It is a mess that we closed our eyes too and has been growing for 20+ years and it will take that long to clean it up. It will take a lot of time, money and manpower. But we can't just let this happen and pretend it will be okay if we just give them anmesty and let them stay and keep coming.
These people are not the least bit interested in becoming Americans. (Something that should never be overlooked) The vast overwhelming majority of them are Mexicans. Mexico where they come from, that's where their loyalties lie. They are an invasion and many of them becoming more and more militant.
It's going to take a lot of stepping on PC toes and not letting guilt manipulators scare us into silence or scare us into backpeddling.
This might mean sending back someone who just wants to send money back home, but there is no one to blame but themselves for breaking the law and the PC polititians who have let this go on for 20 some odd years. This problem has been brewing for a long time and it's going to take a long time to clean it up.
Saying, "there are too many here, it can't be done" and other such arguments is shortsighted. It's like the Founding Fathers saying "there are too many Redcoats here it can't be done." Winning a war starts with fighting one battle at a time, it's not going to be done overnight but you have to start somewhere and commit to see it through until your countries safety and security are ensured.
11 million more taxpayers?
With all due respect, that also means 11 million people dying to work for minimum wage. I cant raise a family on 6$/hr.. And dont think raising the min wage helps anyone, let alone those really making min. It also means 11 million people who cant afford health care. That alone will bankrupt many states, and hospitals. They will pass legislation, letting e-rooms turn people away. Right now, they are required to give you care. 11 million more may break us all. I believe anything worth having is always difficult. Those who succeed, have a great sense of pride in what they have accomplished. They have the option of joining the Armed Forces. I think its 3 yrs or longer. There were guys in the Corps with me doing that very thing. Then again, I believe, voting should be earned through service. Military, or Civil. JMO
With all due respect, that also means 11 million people dying to work for minimum wage. I cant raise a family on 6$/hr.. And dont think raising the min wage helps anyone, let alone those really making min. It also means 11 million people who cant afford health care. That alone will bankrupt many states, and hospitals. They will pass legislation, letting e-rooms turn people away. Right now, they are required to give you care. 11 million more may break us all. I believe anything worth having is always difficult. Those who succeed, have a great sense of pride in what they have accomplished. They have the option of joining the Armed Forces. I think its 3 yrs or longer. There were guys in the Corps with me doing that very thing. Then again, I believe, voting should be earned through service. Military, or Civil. JMO
Those 11 million people are ALREADY HERE. Everything you say will happen is false. It already exists. The difference is that MOSt of these people are working illegally and NOT paying the taxes tehy would if they were nationalized. It would save many states millions in tax revenue to put these people to work legally.
Doug.38PR -- While I agree with much of what you say, I must admit to alot of uneasy feeling when you suggest door to door searches of Hispanic neighborhoods. I know you say it should be done in a legal and Constitutional manner, so I am assuming you mean done with search warrants. What, six or seven million of them?
I know it's not what you meant, but I keep flashing on the Nazis and the Jews. ( and I absolutly AM NOT calling you a Nazi!!)
We have to be careful not to become what we despise.
I know it's not what you meant, but I keep flashing on the Nazis and the Jews. ( and I absolutly AM NOT calling you a Nazi!!)
We have to be careful not to become what we despise.
Search warrants? Correct. Six or seven milllion of them? You start with one and work your way up (whew). You have to put one foot forward if you are going to get to the end of the journey. Like I said, it is a long and hard task, but our ancestors rose to the occasion outnumbered by the King's Redcoats 200 years ago.
I understand and I know you are not. But this is exactly the kind of PC manipulating we have to get past. We have all been conditioned (I'm not immune to it either) for 40 some odd years to think that if we make any distinction between ourselves and/or others as a people or a culture we are leaning towards racism or nazism. Discrimination of any kind is evil. We must be "diverse" and "multicultural" a "nation of immigrants" etc.. If you believe anything any different than that then you are somehow suspect of wanting to shove people into gas chambers, burn them in hot ovens, castrate them, institutionalize bigotry or machine gunning down a particular group of people as the final solution. Nothing in what I said has anything to do with committing genocide or any act of malice against any race of people.
The atrocities committed against the Jews was based on false claims made against them to be used as a political vehicle for the Nazi faction.
Futhurmore I am not talking about doing anything to Hispanic people, I am talking about taking action against Illegal Mexican and other illegal Hispanic people who are within our borders, hurting our economy and being used to overwhelm us as a culture and a people. Remember, Mexico itself has policies and laws against illegals coming from their own southern border of Central America. I seriously doubt they would appreciate 11 million Americans going down into Mexico's northern states living off of their society and taking over their culture. We need to decide to stop curling up and apologizing everytime "racism" or "Nazism" is screamed by our opponents and just laugh at them for their hypocrisy and self-rightousness.
Agreed. If you read the article posted on Illegal Immigration: Misc. Articles etc. Sticky, you will see that what we despise is seen in the leadership of Mexico both across the border and among the militants here. Their goal is to essentially take Texas and the Southwest as their own political colonies to benifit Mexico at our expense. Groups like MECHA and National Council of La Raza (The Race) advocate such aims as: eliminating the gringo, la reconquista, creating a "bronze race" in America, etc.
Its all the same. Govt money is OUR money. Tax or no tax it comes from OUR pockets. Figure this.
Alien works in a restaurant, gets cash a week. seems like he not paying tax and therefore ruining things, BUT...
If he were legal, his wages goes up, the cost of the meals would go up too.
so you have to pay the restaurant the more money, which in turn money goes to the govt as taxes.
the alien still gets his 3 dollars an hour (after taxes) regardless, and it ends up that YOU are the one paying his taxes.
another idea --- The solution for the 11 million illegals,
leave them alone, they will die in 80 years.
any children they have will be american citizens by birth.
Our goal should be to seal off the borders to incoming illegals, so in 80 years there wont be any more illegals.
I dont feel sorry for illegals, as there are ways to legitimately come into this society, if they choose not to go that route, why should I feel sorry ?
Alien works in a restaurant, gets cash a week. seems like he not paying tax and therefore ruining things, BUT...
If he were legal, his wages goes up, the cost of the meals would go up too.
so you have to pay the restaurant the more money, which in turn money goes to the govt as taxes.
the alien still gets his 3 dollars an hour (after taxes) regardless, and it ends up that YOU are the one paying his taxes.
another idea --- The solution for the 11 million illegals,
leave them alone, they will die in 80 years.
any children they have will be american citizens by birth.
Our goal should be to seal off the borders to incoming illegals, so in 80 years there wont be any more illegals.
I dont feel sorry for illegals, as there are ways to legitimately come into this society, if they choose not to go that route, why should I feel sorry ?
Practical application
I've been reading everyones posts on this and other threads on this subject. We say we ought to do this and we ought to do that, but nothing really changes.
What I would like to ask, is how can we actually ENACT some of these suggestions. It's easy to moan and cry about how things are, but not so easy to stand up and change things.
I could write my Senators. Their names are Feinstein and Boxer. One is from San Francisco, the other is from Los Angeles. How much good do you think that will do?
I could write my Representative. Some good people there. The House is where the legislation was written that caused all this uproar. Oh yea, thats right, they can't get anything passed as law without the Senate and the President.
How about state representatives? You know, the ones that took the day off in support of A Day Without Immigrants. Well, they did come into the office long enough to collect their per diem. Wouldn't want to lose out on any of that cash, you know.
Minutemen? Good bunch of people, trying to do an impossible job. Not enough people, too much land. As soon as they move on, the traffic returns. To give them credit, the real service they are doing is to wave the red flag of danger and to increase public awareness. I take nothing away from them for that.
So, I am open to practical solutions. What can I do to stop this flow?
I've been reading everyones posts on this and other threads on this subject. We say we ought to do this and we ought to do that, but nothing really changes.
What I would like to ask, is how can we actually ENACT some of these suggestions. It's easy to moan and cry about how things are, but not so easy to stand up and change things.
I could write my Senators. Their names are Feinstein and Boxer. One is from San Francisco, the other is from Los Angeles. How much good do you think that will do?
I could write my Representative. Some good people there. The House is where the legislation was written that caused all this uproar. Oh yea, thats right, they can't get anything passed as law without the Senate and the President.
How about state representatives? You know, the ones that took the day off in support of A Day Without Immigrants. Well, they did come into the office long enough to collect their per diem. Wouldn't want to lose out on any of that cash, you know.
Minutemen? Good bunch of people, trying to do an impossible job. Not enough people, too much land. As soon as they move on, the traffic returns. To give them credit, the real service they are doing is to wave the red flag of danger and to increase public awareness. I take nothing away from them for that.
So, I am open to practical solutions. What can I do to stop this flow?