Im a fellow colorado resident, and i find that open carry is just to much of a hassle, as well as tactically inefficent. Mabye im paranoid but whats to stop some scumbag crook from seeing my gun on my hip and walking up behind me to try to disarm me? Or seeing my firearm and deciding to take me out first then go along with there criminal activities. Not nocking any OC people but i just am not a fan of it.
I was open carrying at Wal-Mart, and....
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wyobohunter
New member
Most of the "wild west" is sensationalized. The modern west and east are more violent in many respects. Notice how much more polite people can be where carrying firearms is the norm vs. oh my, that man has a gun.
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OldMarksman
Staff
One cannot argue with that, but there is a counter point: if I do see a man with gun carried openly in holster, I think I can at least assume with a very high level of high confidence that he is at least law-abiding; whether he is easily riled won't matter, because I'll sure avoid riling him. Actually, while he raises my eyebrows due to my own conditioning, I'm less concerned about the man with a gun openly carried than about some people I see who may or may have guns and if they do, they likely possess them unlawfully.
I don't think it's appropriate to ascribe carrying a gun to paranoia. Someone asked me the other day why I carry a gun (I do not advertise that I do, but the person had found out from a mutual friend, who is among many really decent and stable citizens I know who are applying for their CCW endorsements) and I answered "for the same reason that I have a balanced investment portfolio." For me, it's a simple matter of risk management. I also have more than one fire extinguisher, and safety is paramount in my choice of an automobile.. One might reasonably choose to not carry in some environments, but where I live, there is a growing element of the population that is mobile, ruthless, amoral, and very violent indeed, and they are acting increasingly as if they have nothing to lose. The gun isn't the only mitigation strategy, by the way: we now avoid many neighborhoods here many of the good restaurants are located.
Yes, I'm afraid it is. The reasons for those fears may not be logical, but I agree that they do exist.
Yes, we do indeed.
Excellent point! I have never understood the point of view that exercising a right will necessarily protect it, when it can just as easily have the opposite effect. One may "educate"a few, but he is likely to alarm many more. People who have been conditioned to dislike guns and to fear them may change, but simply having them see more guns is unlikely to have the desired result, IMHO.
Local tradition does have a lot to do with it, but I would rather say that in places in which open carry has not been traditional many people will simply be uneasy than that they would assume criminal intent when they see someone carrying openly. What criminal in his right mind would strap on a gun in public?
Yep!
No, we do not.
L_Killkenny
New member
After stepping away from this thread for a couple days and reading some more I've a little more input...........
First, a lot of posts seem to reflect a "get your CCW and the problem disappears" attitude. My response is that open carry is plain and simple easier in many jurisdictions. Also, some have a bone in there body that makes them cringe over asking big brother for permission to do something. It's a valid argument. "If" CCW's were easy to get AND open carry was also legal here in Iowa (neither is the case as of now) I might very well just open carry when I felt the need. I wouldn't go to the government for permission and I wouldn't pay money for a class or permit.
I also believe there are different circumstances for different methods of carry. Let's face it, unless you're on the way to/from a CAS shoot, a tied down, low slung SA is probably not a good idea. Same could be said for a strapped down tactical rig or gun size. Carrying Berreta 9mm with a 30 round mag hanging out the bottom or a DE .50 isn't very subtle. Running to Walmart or the farm store from the field with a SA on it's own belt around the hips should be fine. Wearing that same rig for a night on the town might not be. There's good style and bad style, necessity and "for show". Stay away from bad style and "for show" and you'll be better off.
The OP doesn't mention (to my knowledge) his carry piece of his method of carry. IMO, if you open carrying you should try to be as inconspicuous as possible. Use a high ride rig and cover as much of it as legally possible.
LK
First, a lot of posts seem to reflect a "get your CCW and the problem disappears" attitude. My response is that open carry is plain and simple easier in many jurisdictions. Also, some have a bone in there body that makes them cringe over asking big brother for permission to do something. It's a valid argument. "If" CCW's were easy to get AND open carry was also legal here in Iowa (neither is the case as of now) I might very well just open carry when I felt the need. I wouldn't go to the government for permission and I wouldn't pay money for a class or permit.
I also believe there are different circumstances for different methods of carry. Let's face it, unless you're on the way to/from a CAS shoot, a tied down, low slung SA is probably not a good idea. Same could be said for a strapped down tactical rig or gun size. Carrying Berreta 9mm with a 30 round mag hanging out the bottom or a DE .50 isn't very subtle. Running to Walmart or the farm store from the field with a SA on it's own belt around the hips should be fine. Wearing that same rig for a night on the town might not be. There's good style and bad style, necessity and "for show". Stay away from bad style and "for show" and you'll be better off.
The OP doesn't mention (to my knowledge) his carry piece of his method of carry. IMO, if you open carrying you should try to be as inconspicuous as possible. Use a high ride rig and cover as much of it as legally possible.
LK
biohazurd said:
I would be willing to wager, in fact wager my life upon it because I open carry, that 99% of criminals have a few things in common. A couple of those things are that they would rather not be shot at and that they would rather not get caught.
It would seem to me that given the abundance of places where there are not apparantly armed persons present and given the abundance of persons who are apparantly not armed, that it would be much, much easier for a criminal simply to walk down the street one block or wait two minutes to find an apparantly unarmed location/person to target.
Also, given the relative ease with which a criminal can obtain a gun that does not involve attacking a visibly armed person, it would also be much easier for the criminal to obtain a gun using such other methods.
I believe that my wager would be supported by the fact that there simply is no historic evidence that criminals choose to shoot Joe Schmoes openly carrying their firearms nor historic evidence that snatching guns from Joe Schmoe's holster is even their remote choice method of obtaining firearms.
open carry is unwise
First of all I DON"T want any potential threat to know I am armed. You lose all the advantage of surprise and could provoke a hostile response from some nut-case.
I have "CCed" for 45+ years legally when I lived in NY and now in WY & FL.
The trusty AW Chiefs Special now equipped with laser grips has never been drawn or fired in anger. It happily resides in a Dillon "no print through" holster in my pocket, even in light weight fishing shorts.
No, it's not a "fast draw" rig, but the first rules of any confrontation are to retreat if possible, take cover and then employ a gun.
I "open carry" my S&W 329 when hunting, riding or fishing in WY as we have lots of large bears, but see no reason to have it in my El Paso tanker holster when going to Wally World in Rock Springs.
"Flashing" a handgun only incites incident like you ran into and is far more likely to feed into anti rather than pro gun propaganda.
As the "Kalifornicators" keep taking over your state, you will soon see open carry banned everywhere...."as Denver goes, so goes the state." (let's not even talk about Boulder!)
First of all I DON"T want any potential threat to know I am armed. You lose all the advantage of surprise and could provoke a hostile response from some nut-case.
I have "CCed" for 45+ years legally when I lived in NY and now in WY & FL.
The trusty AW Chiefs Special now equipped with laser grips has never been drawn or fired in anger. It happily resides in a Dillon "no print through" holster in my pocket, even in light weight fishing shorts.
No, it's not a "fast draw" rig, but the first rules of any confrontation are to retreat if possible, take cover and then employ a gun.
I "open carry" my S&W 329 when hunting, riding or fishing in WY as we have lots of large bears, but see no reason to have it in my El Paso tanker holster when going to Wally World in Rock Springs.
"Flashing" a handgun only incites incident like you ran into and is far more likely to feed into anti rather than pro gun propaganda.
As the "Kalifornicators" keep taking over your state, you will soon see open carry banned everywhere...."as Denver goes, so goes the state." (let's not even talk about Boulder!)
Uncle Billy
New member
When I see a "civilian" with a gun, why should I or anyone else assume he's disciplined, trained, even tempered, rational, and reasoning? There are a lot of unbalanced, on-the-edge, overwrought folks around; when I see someone with a gun, how do I or anyone else determine he's not one of them? If he's a quiet but unstable loony it's bad enough- if he has a gun, there's reason to be afraid of him. We see the gun, how do we determine the other half of that question? He is, after all half way to causing a lot of bad stuff to happen and we don't know anything about the next half of the equation. In such circumstances I believe it's okay to be uncomfortable- that's an instinct, not a thought-through reaction, and after thinking about it, it seems justified.
Openly carrying a holstered gun is, to some people, "sticking it in their face"- read some of the objections and statements of those who react negatively to having an armed civilian nearby.
There's been a lot of the posts on here wherein armed citizens state they'd jump into a situation like Batman or the Lone Ranger if they saw something bad happening to someone else, with gun drawn. Seeing someone carrying a gun makes me wonder if he might be one of them- an ersatz cop with save-the-world in mind, with no training, no experience and nothing to moderate any ambition he might have to actually use his gun, and absolutely no way to know if he's good enough with it to not hurt any bystanders. Why should I assume he's just protecting himself and those he's responsible for, and wouldn't do something really stupid and harmful when the opportunity to use his gun came along? What test, what filter does anyone have to go through before he can arm himself that prevents those with guardian angel delusions and shaky judgement from carrying a weapon? Like volunteer firemen that start fires just so they can put them out- what evidence does anyone have that the civilian with a Glock or 1911 on his belt isn't of that sort of mind? CC requires some sort of filtering, open carry doesn't always, and everyone knows it. Like not asking that anyone pass a driver's test, how do we know the open-carry civilian is qualified to go among us with death in his belt? And don't bother commenting that that's over dramatic. Just how deadly IS a handgun chosen for its anti-personnel effectiveness?
Openly carrying a holstered gun is, to some people, "sticking it in their face"- read some of the objections and statements of those who react negatively to having an armed civilian nearby.
There's been a lot of the posts on here wherein armed citizens state they'd jump into a situation like Batman or the Lone Ranger if they saw something bad happening to someone else, with gun drawn. Seeing someone carrying a gun makes me wonder if he might be one of them- an ersatz cop with save-the-world in mind, with no training, no experience and nothing to moderate any ambition he might have to actually use his gun, and absolutely no way to know if he's good enough with it to not hurt any bystanders. Why should I assume he's just protecting himself and those he's responsible for, and wouldn't do something really stupid and harmful when the opportunity to use his gun came along? What test, what filter does anyone have to go through before he can arm himself that prevents those with guardian angel delusions and shaky judgement from carrying a weapon? Like volunteer firemen that start fires just so they can put them out- what evidence does anyone have that the civilian with a Glock or 1911 on his belt isn't of that sort of mind? CC requires some sort of filtering, open carry doesn't always, and everyone knows it. Like not asking that anyone pass a driver's test, how do we know the open-carry civilian is qualified to go among us with death in his belt? And don't bother commenting that that's over dramatic. Just how deadly IS a handgun chosen for its anti-personnel effectiveness?
christcorp
New member
Where I live, it's not uncommon to see people open carry. And without trying to explain "HOW", you "just know" what's appropriate. Does "SOME" open carrying bother me? Yes. Is it because "Some" open carry people make me nervous? No, not at all. If the person carrying a gun is a "CRIMINAL", there is a 99.999% chance that they are going to carry their weapon concealed if they are going to commit a crime. They WANT the element of surprise. So, that means that 99.999% of all those who open carry are NOT criminals.
So, why does "Some" open carry people bother me? Because "Some" of them are obviously retarded. They are trying to act cool. They are carrying to make a political statement. The are the little kid saying; "look at me, I'm special". And they aren't carrying a weapon for ANY type of defensive purposes whatsoever. These are the people that bother me. Am I afraid these people are nuts and going to go on a shooting frenzy? No, not at all. Again, I live in an area that if that person open carrying in walmart, supermarket, on the street, in a private business, etc... was to go nuts and pull their gun out; there'd be about 10 other people (Carrying concealed), that would draw and drop him/her like a rock. One main reason we don't have a lot of personal crime here. We don't put up with crap, we aren't polite about it, and most of us don't have "pistol envy" where we have to display it in public.
Again, I said "SOME" of the people that open carry. And also again, without explaining it, you just know what open carry is appropriate and what isn't. When someone walks into Checker or Napa auto parts in jeans, greasy, and a pistol on their side; you don't even think about it. When someone is in Home Depot on a Saturday in overalls or looks like their doing work and they are open carrying, you don't think twice. But it's the normal dressed person, the person in slacks/shirt, the person doing their normal day of shopping, etc... walking around with an open carry weapon that usually makes you shake your head and snicker. "Ain't he special"? LOL!!! These people don't bother me because I'm afraid of them. They don't bother me because I think they'll go postal. They bother me because they are similar to "Mall Ninjas". They have no other motivation than to make a political statement, look cool, and rationalize all other reasons. And because there are so many "Ignorant" people in the world, they also give gun owners a bad reputation.
There are plenty of places that a person can open carry that will desensitize others in their community to gun owner's rights, if they are on a political mission. Places like walmart aren't really that place. But unfortunately there is the "It's My Right to Carry" crowd. And unfortunately, there is no arguing with them. They have no rational behind carrying open when they do. So their only argument is to say it's their right. It doesn't matter about society for them. It's their right. Well, you have the right to free speech also. And sometimes, people use that right to free speech and says what's on their minds. And some of us have the right to say: "You're a freakin idiot" and laugh at you. That's how rights work. Open carry is no different than freedom of speech. Sometimes you express yourself for a reason or purpose. Most times people respect you for it. Sometimes you open your mouth and people realize you're retarded. Sometimes you open carry, and people don't think anything of it because it just seems appropriate. Sometimes you open carry and people realize you're trying to look cool and important. Do whatever.
So, why does "Some" open carry people bother me? Because "Some" of them are obviously retarded. They are trying to act cool. They are carrying to make a political statement. The are the little kid saying; "look at me, I'm special". And they aren't carrying a weapon for ANY type of defensive purposes whatsoever. These are the people that bother me. Am I afraid these people are nuts and going to go on a shooting frenzy? No, not at all. Again, I live in an area that if that person open carrying in walmart, supermarket, on the street, in a private business, etc... was to go nuts and pull their gun out; there'd be about 10 other people (Carrying concealed), that would draw and drop him/her like a rock. One main reason we don't have a lot of personal crime here. We don't put up with crap, we aren't polite about it, and most of us don't have "pistol envy" where we have to display it in public.
Again, I said "SOME" of the people that open carry. And also again, without explaining it, you just know what open carry is appropriate and what isn't. When someone walks into Checker or Napa auto parts in jeans, greasy, and a pistol on their side; you don't even think about it. When someone is in Home Depot on a Saturday in overalls or looks like their doing work and they are open carrying, you don't think twice. But it's the normal dressed person, the person in slacks/shirt, the person doing their normal day of shopping, etc... walking around with an open carry weapon that usually makes you shake your head and snicker. "Ain't he special"? LOL!!! These people don't bother me because I'm afraid of them. They don't bother me because I think they'll go postal. They bother me because they are similar to "Mall Ninjas". They have no other motivation than to make a political statement, look cool, and rationalize all other reasons. And because there are so many "Ignorant" people in the world, they also give gun owners a bad reputation.
There are plenty of places that a person can open carry that will desensitize others in their community to gun owner's rights, if they are on a political mission. Places like walmart aren't really that place. But unfortunately there is the "It's My Right to Carry" crowd. And unfortunately, there is no arguing with them. They have no rational behind carrying open when they do. So their only argument is to say it's their right. It doesn't matter about society for them. It's their right. Well, you have the right to free speech also. And sometimes, people use that right to free speech and says what's on their minds. And some of us have the right to say: "You're a freakin idiot" and laugh at you. That's how rights work. Open carry is no different than freedom of speech. Sometimes you express yourself for a reason or purpose. Most times people respect you for it. Sometimes you open your mouth and people realize you're retarded. Sometimes you open carry, and people don't think anything of it because it just seems appropriate. Sometimes you open carry and people realize you're trying to look cool and important. Do whatever.
christcorp said:
Ahhh, it's amazing the judgmental attitude of those that just can't understand concepts they don't agree with.
Tell me, christcorp, have you ever concealed carry in slacks/shirt while doing your normal daily shopping? WHY? Is it because you think there is a chance, no matter how small that you might have to use your gun to defend yourself should a criminal decide to attack you?
Why is it so hard for you to accept that some of us would rather have the deterrent value of a gun in addition to the defensive value of the gun? Why is it so hard for you to accept that there are some of us that carry for exactly the same reason that you do, in exactly the same situations as you do, but hope that instead of having to USE our gun to defend ourselves, our hope is that the gun will DETER that criminal act from happening to us to begin with and thus prevent us from having to USE our gun? And if that criminal can't see our gun, then it ain't going to deter him, because I have never seen a criminal yet that uses a metal detector to pick targets.
You know the Brady Campaign and other anti-gun groups judge you exactly the same way. They say about you, "Ain't he 'SPECIAL', he carries a gun" whether you conceal or open carry.
Love&Hate12
New member
I have nothing against anybody that wants to exercise their rights, but I personally feel that open carry is not only illogical due to the fact that the average citizens are afraid of firearms, as well as quite spineless, but also that in certain situations, you'd be the first target of an opposing armed criminal.
Say you're in a 7/11 and someone barges in to rob the place from behind, then see's you have a gun holstered on you. You'll probably be shot.
Never have thought it had any advantage over concealed.
Say you're in a 7/11 and someone barges in to rob the place from behind, then see's you have a gun holstered on you. You'll probably be shot.
Never have thought it had any advantage over concealed.
That just happened last year -- sort of. It didn't turn out too good for the robber. http://vagunforum.net/general-discu...s-richmond-shooting-saturday-t1225.html#p9214
__________________
"Because he can"
zxcvbob said:
Dang it, Bob! You disappointed me! I thought you were going to come up with the first ever example of an open carrying citizen who wasn't wearing the uniform of a police officer or a guard being shot first in a robbery...
So the score is STILL zero for it happening in reality.
Yep...........
where I live, a dude with his "heat" on display, is the first one to get it! Sad thing is, you'll be so caught up in how cool it is to open carry that you'll never see it coming cause you're too busy parading around like a fool.
At the end of the day, isn't being ready what it is all about.....being prepared to defend yourself?
You show off your piece like that all you want and they can carve your "right to open carry" on your final resting rock, right under your name......"VICTIM".
You'd last about 3 minutes in my neighborhood.
where I live, a dude with his "heat" on display, is the first one to get it! Sad thing is, you'll be so caught up in how cool it is to open carry that you'll never see it coming cause you're too busy parading around like a fool.
At the end of the day, isn't being ready what it is all about.....being prepared to defend yourself?
You show off your piece like that all you want and they can carve your "right to open carry" on your final resting rock, right under your name......"VICTIM".
You'd last about 3 minutes in my neighborhood.
christcorp
New member
Navy; if you read what I wrote, instead of what you've prejudged it as meaning, you'd see that I said "SOME". But to clarify your suspicions, I would say that far less people open carry for the reasons you promote than you want to believe. Many of them may want to say they do it for those reasons and rationalize it during arguments, but there are way too many just trying to make a political statement or pretending to be cool.
And it is quite doubtful that the ant-gun is walking around thinking that I'm trying to be special. Considering they have no idea that I'm carrying a gun. And I conceal carry every day. I've concealed carried in every form of clothing imaginable. From a business suit, to a tuxedo. From jeans and a tshirt; to shorts and sandals. Shirts tucked in, pulled out, and every other possible combination. The only clothing I haven't been able to conceal carry, and I didn't open carry either, was a bathing suit. So when people say it isn't practical, they are rationalizing so they can have an excuse.
Have I or do I carry openly. Sure, plenty of times. Probably at least 3-4 times a month. This past weekend I was working around the property. I was working on plumbing and some fencing. Concealed carry definitely is not comfortable or conducive. And when I had to go to Lowes Sunday afternoon to get some hoses and fittings for some plumbing work, I kept my Sig P220 on my side open carried while I pushed the cart around Lowes and did my shopping. And there were no issues.
Now you say that you carry your weapon open carry all the time for the same exact reasons that I carry mine concealed. I can't call B.S. on you, because I don't know you personally. You might truly be sincere in that approach. But if that was the standard answer given by all the open carry gun owners, I would definitely call B.S. on a large portion of them. Just like I don't buy the whole "Open carry is more of a deterrent than concealed carry". Sorry, but that one I definitely will not buy. I haven't lived in Wyoming my entire life. 21 years in the military had me in some of the largest and smallest cities in the country. Plus, I was born and raised in the New York City / New Jersey area until I moved away from home. As Jed said; you wouldn't last 3 minutes in my neighborhood open carrying. Even if you were allowed to. You'd be the first one offed after the bad guy cased the place. But by all means open carry if it makes you feel safer. After all; "It's your right".
And for what it's worth, It doesn't matter 1 bit if you think I or anyone else is being judgmental. It doesn't matter. The FACT IS: "Perception is 99% truth". If that's what people perceive to be the truth, that is what they will believe to be the truth". You can be the greatest person in the world for all I know. But if people who see you in stores and such "perceive" you as someone trying to act cool, or someone that makes them nervous, or whatever; then that is the TRUTH. At least for them. And that's all that matters. You can't change that perception simply by carrying your gun openly. You have to realize that the anti-gun campaign has been able to demonize guns and gun owners in the last 40 years, and rip down the respect our society has had for guns for hundreds of years. Your open carry isn't going to fix that problem. It doesn't even help.
Again, not to say that there isn't a time for open carry. There are plenty of times when open carry is quite appropriate. And you know when those are based on your audience. Just like you know what kind of language you can get away with. What type of humor is appropriate. But there are also open carry owners out there that don't care one bit about anyone else. They don't care about society or their community. They only care about themselves. "It's my right". Fine, it's your right. Carry openly.
And it is quite doubtful that the ant-gun is walking around thinking that I'm trying to be special. Considering they have no idea that I'm carrying a gun. And I conceal carry every day. I've concealed carried in every form of clothing imaginable. From a business suit, to a tuxedo. From jeans and a tshirt; to shorts and sandals. Shirts tucked in, pulled out, and every other possible combination. The only clothing I haven't been able to conceal carry, and I didn't open carry either, was a bathing suit. So when people say it isn't practical, they are rationalizing so they can have an excuse.
Have I or do I carry openly. Sure, plenty of times. Probably at least 3-4 times a month. This past weekend I was working around the property. I was working on plumbing and some fencing. Concealed carry definitely is not comfortable or conducive. And when I had to go to Lowes Sunday afternoon to get some hoses and fittings for some plumbing work, I kept my Sig P220 on my side open carried while I pushed the cart around Lowes and did my shopping. And there were no issues.
Now you say that you carry your weapon open carry all the time for the same exact reasons that I carry mine concealed. I can't call B.S. on you, because I don't know you personally. You might truly be sincere in that approach. But if that was the standard answer given by all the open carry gun owners, I would definitely call B.S. on a large portion of them. Just like I don't buy the whole "Open carry is more of a deterrent than concealed carry". Sorry, but that one I definitely will not buy. I haven't lived in Wyoming my entire life. 21 years in the military had me in some of the largest and smallest cities in the country. Plus, I was born and raised in the New York City / New Jersey area until I moved away from home. As Jed said; you wouldn't last 3 minutes in my neighborhood open carrying. Even if you were allowed to. You'd be the first one offed after the bad guy cased the place. But by all means open carry if it makes you feel safer. After all; "It's your right".
And for what it's worth, It doesn't matter 1 bit if you think I or anyone else is being judgmental. It doesn't matter. The FACT IS: "Perception is 99% truth". If that's what people perceive to be the truth, that is what they will believe to be the truth". You can be the greatest person in the world for all I know. But if people who see you in stores and such "perceive" you as someone trying to act cool, or someone that makes them nervous, or whatever; then that is the TRUTH. At least for them. And that's all that matters. You can't change that perception simply by carrying your gun openly. You have to realize that the anti-gun campaign has been able to demonize guns and gun owners in the last 40 years, and rip down the respect our society has had for guns for hundreds of years. Your open carry isn't going to fix that problem. It doesn't even help.
Again, not to say that there isn't a time for open carry. There are plenty of times when open carry is quite appropriate. And you know when those are based on your audience. Just like you know what kind of language you can get away with. What type of humor is appropriate. But there are also open carry owners out there that don't care one bit about anyone else. They don't care about society or their community. They only care about themselves. "It's my right". Fine, it's your right. Carry openly.
Miketodd04
New member
IMHO "A right not exercised is a right lost".
and I can very personally call B.S. on that statement. Responsible and respectable open carry does much good for those "fence sitters" with open minds. I have had many conversations with these types of folks who simply believe what they've been taught about guns, but have never experienced anything first hand until they see one of us going about our normal business and they ask us about it.
There's a reason we have given out thousands of our gun rights pamphlets to interested people here in Washington http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/attachment.php?id=10415 and it's not because we hide our guns away to avoid making some people uncomfortable. It's because others see real people going about real normal day to day lives and we just happen to be carrying a gun that they can see.
You want to find out about a positive open carry experience right there in Cheyenne, go talk to the young couple that manages the Cheyenne Motel and ask them about the guy with the gun that stayed at their motel in the middle of February.
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