"I don't play. ... I don't play." LEO gone wild

Throwing an object from a vehicle

At a moving vehicle is a felony.

He might not have done it perfectly, but I bet he will win.
Girl was not cooperating, she got cuffed, big deal.

Please go on with your story.

Harley
 
Harley-
I half agree with you....have you looked at the tape?

Here's the half:
- Maybe the cop, in an earlier, more civilized day, could have had a reason to grab the girl by the wrist and speak sternly. Even today, I'd grant him that latitude.

Here's the half I don't agree with:
- I couldn't care less if it was an act of murder....she didn't do it!
- Did she need to be dragged, humiliated, charged and handcuffed? Cripes, if any LEO had done that on a school bus 30 years ago, the parents would have had a lynching party!

If a golf ball was thrown at the Bus Driver and he had reacted like this against a "Non-Perp", would any of us argue "No big deal"? What about the motorist or a non-LEO motorcyclist, intent on a Citizen's Arrest? Of course we'd conclude they were over the top. So why is it OK for someone in another type of uniform to exhibit the same poor judgment?

Wrong is wrong. I agree that LEO's should have latitude to initiate violence in making an arrest that Non-LEO's do not. I'll turn a blind eye to rough handling of a non-principal in getting the attention of a crowd. That's OK. But this girl was charged only to protect the (apparently) violent reaction of the LEO; the violence, humiliation and charges were not incidental to a necessary arrest.

Were it my kid, I guarantee you I'd be suing for damages and teaching that 13 year old that inappropriate use of authority is not to be tolerated. And I'd argue that position right here....proudly.

What's next? We start shooting people in subway crowds because we think they maybe, might, could be involved in a Bomb Plot? Oops, the Brits are already ahead of us on that one. Don't they have a system that we fought a War to be unshackled from?
Rich
 
Has he been found guilty

I am not sure about anything except that he is innocent until proven guilty.
It will be interesting to see how it goes or where it goes.

Extenuating circumstances will come into play, I am sure.
Right now it is in the investigative stage. To hamper an investigation (felony) is a violation of the law and I don't have enough information to be making a conclusion.

But I will stick with my original statement.

Harley
 
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Harley-
Of course he's not guilty. But neither was this child. And, in this case, the benefit of the doubt goes to the Child, the accused, the already exonerated.

We regularly make value judgments based on less than perfect info. Look only to my remarks regarding a similar situation involving the bus driver or motorist for your answer to that. Would you be claiming that "there's nothing to see here pending a full court case" had it been one of those players that grabbed the child, twisted her arm, dragged her down the aisle, handcuffed her and had her arrested...only to say, "Oops, wrong perp. New charge required."?

C'mon guy. There has to be some form of interim personal judgment here. Absent that, we relegate ourselves to little more than brain stems, twittering on the internet.
Rich
 
LEO = Law Enforcement Officer
I prefer:
PO = Peace Officer

Many of us are quite capable of enforcing laws and prove it daily. Only the Chosen Few can be true Peace Officers....many of us lack the proper temperment and need not (or should not) apply.
Rich
 
I think all of you are agreeing with each other somewhat without trying to. Like I said before, I teach children with special needs (they have learning disabilities with some kind of attention deficit, not the severely handicapped children). Most of the students I teach have some sort of lack of impulse control. In the past, I have worked with students with emotional disabilities, and those are the ones that can really test your patience. I only touched them if they were physically in the act of threatening to hurt others or themselves, such as moving towards another student that they were going to get into an altercation with. I was trained to only touch them when absolutely necessary, and the positions I held the children provided maximum safety without hurting the children. When they began to calm down, and the crisis was over, they were released and the counseling began.

The point is, I learned from my emotionally handicapped students the art of patience and control. Perhaps, LEO's need this training as well when dealing with children. I think this girl was way out of line, and seems to be well on her way to a life of living among low-lifes. But like I said before, the officer, and any officer in the US, should learn the art of patience when dealing with schoolchildren. Otherwise, you end up being in the national spotlight for something that you won't be proud of. We can debate this until we are blue in the face, but it does point up a need to include training for LEO's when dealing with children.
 
Rich I understand

I have been in a few cappers where Juv's would do stuff that was not to well thought out and got themselves in a bind and then counseled and released to parents. It is touchy. We can go at this all night and still not come to a meeting of minds.

I will just say this, Felony occurs, investigation is started, uncooperative witness causing scene and delaying and obstructing investigation, someone else cops to it, after the witness who has by now been manhandled and cuffed, is getting more attention, and making the scene even more diffucult.

Each case has to be weighed on its own merits. So I have to wait for more information before I let myself be inclined to make a decision. All parties are now going to be into another investigation and hopefully it turns out where parties concerned are appeased.

I am not trying to dance around the issue it is the way it needs to follow the course of action that was started and will end in a hearing and judication will be served.
Stuff happens and it is not always going to go the way one wants, or feels based on their mores and observations. But my base instinct tells me, the LEO is going to come out in the better position.

Harley
 
Harley Quinn said:
Throwing an object from a vehicle at a moving vehicle is a felony.
Click to expand...
Harley, I don't mean to pick on you about the above quoted remark, but I have to wonder...

Is it a felony in Florida, where this case originates?

I ask, because it appears that what some states call felonies, others call misdemeanors. Yet, too often in these threads, we slap the "Felony" label on things that may not be felonies at all.
 
The offense is a

"Third Degree Felony," which is what would be a misdemeanor (penalty NOT to exceed 1 year) in my state.
 
You have a point Antipitas.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

In Florida it might not be the same as in CA. It could be a misd. if no injury, then with injury it may then escalate from there.
To abuse with the color of authority is usually a felony but maybe not in FL.
I remember all the clamor over the Cuban child that arrived in FL. Everyone made a big deal about him. He still went back to Cuba.

This child in this situation maybe the victim, we will find out hopefully when the bell tolls.

Harley
 
"I am not sure about anything except that he is innocent until proven guilty."

Why is the LEO innocent until proven guilty, but the 13 YO girl man-handled and handcuffed for saying she didn't do it?:confused: :barf: *cough*We/They*cough*

Were it my child, the LEo would not have to worry about We/They anymore. He would be part of the "They".
 
Florida law is irrelevant

"To abuse with the color of authority is usually a felony but maybe not in FL"

Violation of civil rights under color of law is a FEDERAL offense, in addition to any state violations. See 42 USC 1983.
 
Number 6:

I'm undoubtedly wrong... But wouldn't a state action be required, assuming there is a remedy at this level, before a Blivens action could be mounted?
 
I am thinking, if the officer is wrong.

Law Enforcement is interesting. Day to day in the trenchs.

Writers on the net day to day in the backseat voicing their thoughts and feeling the officers are normally doing the wrong thing. (at least on this thread) And voicing abusive or threating statements. Sad to say the least.

I read where on another thread some one has a misfire of a gun and everyone comes to her aid. One person explains how bad it was and they jump all over him. Interesting.

I can see where others are starting to bad mouth the site. S.W.A.T.

It is every special intrest group who has a voice, or some outraged father who say's he will take care of the LEO.

Sad.
Then if you don't take a stance, say well the courts will handle it. Then there is someone who wants you to be fore or against, based on evidence that is jaded at best.

OK.

Harley
 
State action

"But wouldn't a state action be required?"

We HAVE "state action" - the cop arrested the girl under color of law. The moment he cuffed her, she was under arrest and that arrest was under his authority as a police officer. That's "state action."
 
# 6 she was detained against her will

Was she placed under arrest and told she had commited a crime?
Was she Placed under detention to further the ability to conduct an investigation with out the 13 year old carring on like a three year old.

Harley
 
Number 6 said:
We HAVE "state action" - the cop arrested the girl under color of law. The moment he cuffed her, she was under arrest and that arrest was under his authority as a police officer. That's "state action."
Click to expand...
No. That's the alleged civil rights violation. The place to argue that point is court. State Court, if not Federal Court. My question went to which court one would file the action in.

The place not to argue such, is when/while being detained/arrested. Which is what some here are doing.
 
Harley, I find your theory on cop bashing interesting. Especially when you say things like this:
Writers on the net day to day in the backseat voicing their thoughts and feeling the officers are normally doing the wrong thing. (at least on this thread) And voicing abusive or threating statements. Sad to say the least.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it be more appropriate to consider a collorary view? One in which the public that LEO serves is voicing it's opinion that LEO tactics need to be changed because the current incarnation of those tactics is viewed as being abusive towards the public?

To me, when large #'s of ordinary people start complaining about the actions of a governmental entity, someone ought to start listening.
 
Rationalization redux

"Was she placed under arrest and told she had commited a crime?
Was she Placed [sic] under detention to further the ability to conduct an investigation with out the 13 year old carring [sic ] on like a three year old[?]"

For such a supposed veteran of "a few cappers [sic]," you have NO clue as to what constitutes an arrest.

Simple test: Was she free to go?

As she obviously wasn't (cuffed and dragged off bus by cop), she was under arrest. Whether the cop was intelligent enough to Mirandize her is irrelevant to the analysis, except to the extent that his failure to do so is further evidence of his incompetence.

I don't know what the protocols are in Hurricane Alley, but in MY corner of the world, it is illegal to interrogate minors without an attorney or parent present. I'm sure you dislike that, too.

On a related note:

"My question went to which court one would file the action in."

Obviously the appropriate Federal District Court would have jurisdiction; however, the state superior court almost certainly has concurrent jurisdiction.
 
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