DonR101395
New member
You've convicted him without hearing his side. I guess we're two peas in a pod.
"I don't play. ... I don't play." LEO gone wild
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Harley Quinn
Moderator
I love these discussions
Certain people have a way of weeding themselves out.
Kind of like 'give um enough rope and they will hang themselves'.
Hmmm, I think I'll go read the last post about 'tazzzing a teenager for lack of control on her part, or how granny got tazzzed for failure to respond properly'
Then there is the one where a group of teenagers roughed up a cop and shot him with his own gun because of a few, that would not cooperate and worked the mob into a frenzy, for violating there rights while he conducted an official investigation of poor teenagers.
Then there is the one in L. A. The CHP was writing a ticket and it turned in to a mob and then into a riot because the teenagers didn't like there rights being violated.
I still think he is in his right and it will show that at his inqusition. LOL
Harley
Certain people have a way of weeding themselves out.
Kind of like 'give um enough rope and they will hang themselves'.
Hmmm, I think I'll go read the last post about 'tazzzing a teenager for lack of control on her part, or how granny got tazzzed for failure to respond properly'
Then there is the one where a group of teenagers roughed up a cop and shot him with his own gun because of a few, that would not cooperate and worked the mob into a frenzy, for violating there rights while he conducted an official investigation of poor teenagers.
Then there is the one in L. A. The CHP was writing a ticket and it turned in to a mob and then into a riot because the teenagers didn't like there rights being violated.
I still think he is in his right and it will show that at his inqusition. LOL
Harley
MeekAndMild
New member
I can understand some of the junior citizens getting their panties in a wad about this, but you, Rich? Kimosabe, you do realize that the LEO was tasked with protecting the innocent civilian members of the motoring public from getting killed and maimed by the 'children' on this bus. What good is this responsibility without on-the-spot authority to keep the peace?
I have a very old story about the time I was riding in the back of a schoolbus when a loudmouthed girl caused the driver to lose control, run off the road, across a ditch and into a tree. I won't bore you with it, but merely mention it gives me a different perspective about the gravity of the offense this sweet little kid with "impulse control problems" and a golf ball and the sweet little girl with "impulse control problems" and a big mouth committed. I have nothing against mentally handicapped people, indeed I make my living serving them, but they need to have positive external control if they have no internal control.
Give the LEO a little bit of slack here. He had just dodged spending six months in traction plus the risk of multiple amputations. Does anybody have a link to his legal defence fund?
I have a very old story about the time I was riding in the back of a schoolbus when a loudmouthed girl caused the driver to lose control, run off the road, across a ditch and into a tree. I won't bore you with it, but merely mention it gives me a different perspective about the gravity of the offense this sweet little kid with "impulse control problems" and a golf ball and the sweet little girl with "impulse control problems" and a big mouth committed. I have nothing against mentally handicapped people, indeed I make my living serving them, but they need to have positive external control if they have no internal control.
Give the LEO a little bit of slack here. He had just dodged spending six months in traction plus the risk of multiple amputations. Does anybody have a link to his legal defence fund?
Rich Lucibella
Staff
Meek-
My panties aren't in a wad.
I simply pointed out that, were this my daughter, I'd be looking at what happened REAL close....and if the video was the whole story, I'd be looking for someone's scalp. All we have so far is a video of the cop manhandling this child....no one denies that he did; only whether he had reason to. His defenders point to things that must have happened off camera, to excuse what we see ON camera.
Perhaps something did happen. But what is ON camera is unacceptable, unless she posed a real threat to this officer or his "investigation". I already said, I didn't have a problem with him grabbing her wrist roughly. But the rest of it? For heaven's sake, she didn't throw the damned golfball; no evidence has been forthcoming that she posed any real threat to the "investigation". I'm sorry, based on the facts we have, the onus is now on the department to demonstrate why this treatment was necessary.
And that, sir, is how it should be in a free society.
Rich
My panties aren't in a wad.
I simply pointed out that, were this my daughter, I'd be looking at what happened REAL close....and if the video was the whole story, I'd be looking for someone's scalp. All we have so far is a video of the cop manhandling this child....no one denies that he did; only whether he had reason to. His defenders point to things that must have happened off camera, to excuse what we see ON camera.
Perhaps something did happen. But what is ON camera is unacceptable, unless she posed a real threat to this officer or his "investigation". I already said, I didn't have a problem with him grabbing her wrist roughly. But the rest of it? For heaven's sake, she didn't throw the damned golfball; no evidence has been forthcoming that she posed any real threat to the "investigation". I'm sorry, based on the facts we have, the onus is now on the department to demonstrate why this treatment was necessary.
And that, sir, is how it should be in a free society.
Rich
MeekAndMild
New member
Like I said Kimosabe, give the guy some slack here. He nearly died that day. I'm sure things will be more plain after the dust settles. If.. and if... and if?Rich Lucibella
Staff
I nearly die EVERY day I ride a motorcycle, Meek. I have three. (BTW, the "near fatal" accident was off camera....just as the girl's transgressions were.)
Still, I don't understand the connection between a near fatal accident and what may potentially be physical abuse of a child.
Again, and hopefully for the last time, I'm not giving the cop "wrong" here. But, based on what's available to the public, he's ceratainly got some 'splainin' to do, yes? And, again, if it was the Bus Driver taking that action on film would you still be calling for deep breaths?
Answer?
Rich
Still, I don't understand the connection between a near fatal accident and what may potentially be physical abuse of a child.
Again, and hopefully for the last time, I'm not giving the cop "wrong" here. But, based on what's available to the public, he's ceratainly got some 'splainin' to do, yes? And, again, if it was the Bus Driver taking that action on film would you still be calling for deep breaths?
Answer?
Rich
Hunter Rose
New member
>He had just dodged spending six months in traction plus the risk of multiple amputations<
Huh. One misty morning last year, i had a rather large dump truck make a left turn in front of me, causeing me to lock up my brakes and slide sideways through an intersection. by your logic, I would have been justified in going after said driver, and physically restraining him? Or is this another example of "cops are different from 'civilians'"?
You ride a bike, you accept that you're taking your life in your hands. And, as an officer, you kinda have to learn to keep your emotions under control as best you can. From what I've read (and seen of the video), this officer didn't. So there're people questioning his actions. As there should be, until all the facts come to light. Defending his actions without all the facts just increases the antagonistic attitude in society...
Or, to put it blunter: "Us, meet Them"
Huh. One misty morning last year, i had a rather large dump truck make a left turn in front of me, causeing me to lock up my brakes and slide sideways through an intersection. by your logic, I would have been justified in going after said driver, and physically restraining him? Or is this another example of "cops are different from 'civilians'"?
You ride a bike, you accept that you're taking your life in your hands. And, as an officer, you kinda have to learn to keep your emotions under control as best you can. From what I've read (and seen of the video), this officer didn't. So there're people questioning his actions. As there should be, until all the facts come to light. Defending his actions without all the facts just increases the antagonistic attitude in society...
Or, to put it blunter: "Us, meet Them"
MeekAndMild
New member
I will wait on the jury results. As should we all. I didn't see the video; I must profess that my own time on school buses as both a rider and driver still haunts me too much to voluntarily watch it.
The relationship between the potential accident and the officer moving the screamer out of the back of the bus was that he would have responsibility to do what was needed to prevent any further accidents from occurring. He was responsible to see that no further projectiles were thrown out into traffic. From his viewpoint the screamer may well have been interfering with his ability to perform needed intervention.
Hunter Rose, if you're not a LEO nobody would have the power of calling you negligent and punishing you for not interveneing to stop the dump truck driver. As a civilian your recourse is to make a complaint and ask for the driver's arrest, or you can sue him in civil court. As a LEO you have to make the arrest and try to prevent him from doing the same thing in the future.
Rich, I find it odd that I've been drawn in to 2 of these threads, siding on opposite sides. (The other one was the one about the LEOs who 'allegedly' beat up that little old lady and 'allegedly' threw her out of her house in NO.) I would wonder if you might have a way of setting up an educational thread where you and the other staff could "supermoderate" a discussion about the antagonisms to which our friend Hunter Rose refers. It would be interesting to get to the core of this.
The relationship between the potential accident and the officer moving the screamer out of the back of the bus was that he would have responsibility to do what was needed to prevent any further accidents from occurring. He was responsible to see that no further projectiles were thrown out into traffic. From his viewpoint the screamer may well have been interfering with his ability to perform needed intervention.
Hunter Rose, if you're not a LEO nobody would have the power of calling you negligent and punishing you for not interveneing to stop the dump truck driver. As a civilian your recourse is to make a complaint and ask for the driver's arrest, or you can sue him in civil court. As a LEO you have to make the arrest and try to prevent him from doing the same thing in the future.
I've got to call BS on that one. He's innocent until he's proven guilty. 2 more cents worth; From my viewpoint the antagonistic attitude is a cause rather than a result.
Rich, I find it odd that I've been drawn in to 2 of these threads, siding on opposite sides. (The other one was the one about the LEOs who 'allegedly' beat up that little old lady and 'allegedly' threw her out of her house in NO.) I would wonder if you might have a way of setting up an educational thread where you and the other staff could "supermoderate" a discussion about the antagonisms to which our friend Hunter Rose refers. It would be interesting to get to the core of this.
Rich Lucibella
Staff
Ummmm, the video was the subject of this thread, Meek....not your personal experiences on a school bus.
But absent the video, we can all talk "What if's" if you'd like.
Hmmm-ah. The VIDEO in that case showed her interviewed by the cops, asked if she had a weapon, asked if they could see it and then tackled by two Rather Large CHP officers....then being led out of her own home against her will.
Maybe I should stop watching videos and play more reality based "What If" games on the internet?
Rich
MeekAndMild
New member
Maybe so, or maybe we should do like the brits are supposedly planning and set up constant surveillance of all traffic all the time? Then we can watch ALL the videos. 
I did see the CHP/LOL/NO video. I think the 2 cases are substantially different but I was wondering about your perspectives as to why and how and where all the LEO vs civillian argument came about. Silly me.
I did see the CHP/LOL/NO video. I think the 2 cases are substantially different but I was wondering about your perspectives as to why and how and where all the LEO vs civillian argument came about. Silly me.
Harley Quinn
Moderator
The perp moved back to Germany
The girl in question was also handcuffed again while waiting for her parents.
Seems like the normal procedure if they have no holding cell.
Seems like the thing to do if you don't want them moving around interfering with on going investigations. They hand cuff them to the chair or bench that is stationary, do not allow them to talk as a general rule. While waiting to be released to the parent.
The fine line is when she is not arrested and they have no holding cell, they are still handcuffed. Sounds like a policy within the Department. They had just changed the policy due to another problem about handcuffing.
Maybe they should go to leg irons. Oh wait, they do that if the person is combative. How barbaric.
Harley
The girl in question was also handcuffed again while waiting for her parents.
Seems like the normal procedure if they have no holding cell.
Seems like the thing to do if you don't want them moving around interfering with on going investigations. They hand cuff them to the chair or bench that is stationary, do not allow them to talk as a general rule. While waiting to be released to the parent.
The fine line is when she is not arrested and they have no holding cell, they are still handcuffed. Sounds like a policy within the Department. They had just changed the policy due to another problem about handcuffing.
Maybe they should go to leg irons. Oh wait, they do that if the person is combative. How barbaric.
Harley
Rich Lucibella
Staff
And, for the third time, if it was the Bus Driver taking that action on film would you still be calling for deep breaths?
Anyone?
Rich
Anyone?
Rich
Harley Quinn
Moderator
I am a little confused with your post Rich
Are you saying, if it was the bus driver who manhandled the student and handcuffed her and yelled, would we be able to stand by what he did?
If that is what you mean I would say yes, Yes.
Bus driver's are abused beyond belief by the students. I know a retired LEO who decided to become a bus driver, he retired young (40's). He said his training was a real help with the ability to deal with the miscreants.
He was telling me 98% of the kids are just kids. but that 2% were trouble and big time trouble, intimidating etc. He had confidence and he was up front with them.
He actually enjoyed the job better than his former job. Loves Kids.
I don't believe the school allows the drivers that latitude though. They figure let the driver be a victim and then they wont have a law suit. I remember growing up 50 years ago, teachers and bus driver were tough on you.
Different times and jobs, one enforce's laws the other drives children to and from and have to put up with a tremendous amount of abuse by them.
Usually deep breaths are in between rounds and while trying to control your emotions. Short breaths are the ones that get you in trouble (stress). Yoga 101.
Harley
Are you saying, if it was the bus driver who manhandled the student and handcuffed her and yelled, would we be able to stand by what he did?
If that is what you mean I would say yes, Yes.
Bus driver's are abused beyond belief by the students. I know a retired LEO who decided to become a bus driver, he retired young (40's). He said his training was a real help with the ability to deal with the miscreants.
He was telling me 98% of the kids are just kids. but that 2% were trouble and big time trouble, intimidating etc. He had confidence and he was up front with them.
He actually enjoyed the job better than his former job. Loves Kids.
I don't believe the school allows the drivers that latitude though. They figure let the driver be a victim and then they wont have a law suit. I remember growing up 50 years ago, teachers and bus driver were tough on you.
Different times and jobs, one enforce's laws the other drives children to and from and have to put up with a tremendous amount of abuse by them.
Usually deep breaths are in between rounds and while trying to control your emotions. Short breaths are the ones that get you in trouble (stress). Yoga 101.
Harley
MeekAndMild
New member
Of course. Why should 58 children on a bus be subject to lethal traffic danger because 2 are ten years late on their first spanking?
Rich Lucibella
Staff
OK, then.
We'll just have to agree to disagree.
If a parent was caught doing what we see on this film, it'd be Child Services time and possible charges. Who am I to argue that bus drivers and LEO's should be granted immunity, when there isn't a shred of evidence that the child attacked or impeded anything; and, in fact, the school board found her innocent of any misconduct.
She's attacked/impeded; the School Board's covering up; the tape doesn't show enough of the story. If wrongdoing is ultimately found on the part of the Police Department, we can chalk that up to the liberal Judges. Probably nothing to see here folks. Dunno why it caused me to raise an eyebrow in the first place..
Rich
We'll just have to agree to disagree.
If a parent was caught doing what we see on this film, it'd be Child Services time and possible charges. Who am I to argue that bus drivers and LEO's should be granted immunity, when there isn't a shred of evidence that the child attacked or impeded anything; and, in fact, the school board found her innocent of any misconduct.
She's attacked/impeded; the School Board's covering up; the tape doesn't show enough of the story. If wrongdoing is ultimately found on the part of the Police Department, we can chalk that up to the liberal Judges. Probably nothing to see here folks. Dunno why it caused me to raise an eyebrow in the first place..
Rich
Harley Quinn
Moderator
Rich I believe you have the right to raise an eyebrow,
you are the one who sets precidents and dictates the flow or lack of it.
I have a feeling sometimes you are on the fence just by being who you are and the position you have to uphold.
I enjoy the chatter as long as we respectfully abide by the rules set down by yourself and the staff.
Good board. Hope you have a Happy Holiday, inspite of all the world that goes on behind the scenes.
I recall a passage concerning the very type of activity regarding the youth and there lack of respect toward elders. Had something to do with the Ten Commandments. Some are still waiting, others have found there's, and me I am just in a holding pattern.
Regards,
Harley
you are the one who sets precidents and dictates the flow or lack of it.
I have a feeling sometimes you are on the fence just by being who you are and the position you have to uphold.
I enjoy the chatter as long as we respectfully abide by the rules set down by yourself and the staff.
Good board. Hope you have a Happy Holiday, inspite of all the world that goes on behind the scenes.
I recall a passage concerning the very type of activity regarding the youth and there lack of respect toward elders. Had something to do with the Ten Commandments. Some are still waiting, others have found there's, and me I am just in a holding pattern.
Regards,
Harley