I am considering Carrying a gun-No CCW
- Thread starter jeff1259
- Start date
chris in va
New member
Problem is though, you may go to jail just for having it, before it even gets used. Funny thing, my conservatively-minded friend that worked on Capitol Hill for a while is moving to CA due to getting married soon.
I'm trying to convince him not to.
I'm trying to convince him not to.
Perhaps joining as a volunteer police officer or taking a moonlighting job as a security person (armed) might help you get a CCW permit. I used to often visit the murder capital of the country (our nation's capital washington DC), back in my single days, and probably because my shaved head and stare intimidates a lot of BG's (most of whom prefer to mess with weaker folk), since training in Martial Arts often gives the experienced user a new found confidence, I suggest you look into a good instructor.
I have had many friends and relatives who have gone through numerous robberies and muggings. But it has not happened to those who studied the fighting arts and/or who CC'ed. BG's probably know who not to mess with. Project fear and they will come after you. Project confidence, and they will find someone else.
Good luck.
I have had many friends and relatives who have gone through numerous robberies and muggings. But it has not happened to those who studied the fighting arts and/or who CC'ed. BG's probably know who not to mess with. Project fear and they will come after you. Project confidence, and they will find someone else.
Good luck.
Jeff,
The applicable section of the law is California Penal Code section 12025.
It is only a felony if the person is a felon, if the firearm is stolen, if the person is a member of a criminal street gang as defined in section 186.20, or if the person is not "in lawful possession" of the firearm or are a prohibited person under federal or state law.
It's a misdemeanor if the person is not the registered owner of the firearm, or otherwise. The three-month minimum sentence only applies if there's a previous conviction of "violent use of a firearm."
Check out http://www.equalccw.com/ for some gory details.
Jim March might well suggest formally applying for a license, and if you're rejected and later had to use your firearm in defense of yourself or your family, your lawyer would have a better shot at mounting an affirmative defense against a 12025 prosecution, perhaps using 12025.5(b).
The general suspicion is that they made a first offense a misdemeanor because otherwise all the friends of the politicians would be getting snared.
Hypothetically speaking, I carried on a few occasions before I moved from San Jose to New Hampshire, and one incident that really got my guts in a knot was when someone cut in front of me on my motorcycle in San Francisco, and we wound up pulling off the freeway right next to the jail and around the corner from the police station.
After I finished the accident report with the police officers who showed up, all the while intensely conscious of the danger I faced from them for exercising my right to self-defense, I realized that what I'd thought was a bruise on my leg was actually the fuel petcock having been driven into the side of my calf.
Since there was no possible way I was going to go anywhere near a San Francisco hospital with a firearm on my person, I wound up shoving some gauze into the wound and wrapping it up a bit, and making the 50-mile ride home where I dropped off my pistol and went to the hospital for stitches. I also discovered that evening that the Metreon Theater didn't keep a first aid kit.
The ironic thing is I was accosted, threatened, and had a bottle thrown at me by a couple of San Francisco's notoriously surly and demanding homeless that evening, and was very relieved to have been armed.
That's the problem, though - you never know what could happen. If I'd been knocked unconscious instead of just getting crunched a little bit, I could have been in some deep manure.
The applicable section of the law is California Penal Code section 12025.
It is only a felony if the person is a felon, if the firearm is stolen, if the person is a member of a criminal street gang as defined in section 186.20, or if the person is not "in lawful possession" of the firearm or are a prohibited person under federal or state law.
It's a misdemeanor if the person is not the registered owner of the firearm, or otherwise. The three-month minimum sentence only applies if there's a previous conviction of "violent use of a firearm."
Check out http://www.equalccw.com/ for some gory details.
Jim March might well suggest formally applying for a license, and if you're rejected and later had to use your firearm in defense of yourself or your family, your lawyer would have a better shot at mounting an affirmative defense against a 12025 prosecution, perhaps using 12025.5(b).
The general suspicion is that they made a first offense a misdemeanor because otherwise all the friends of the politicians would be getting snared.
Hypothetically speaking, I carried on a few occasions before I moved from San Jose to New Hampshire, and one incident that really got my guts in a knot was when someone cut in front of me on my motorcycle in San Francisco, and we wound up pulling off the freeway right next to the jail and around the corner from the police station.
After I finished the accident report with the police officers who showed up, all the while intensely conscious of the danger I faced from them for exercising my right to self-defense, I realized that what I'd thought was a bruise on my leg was actually the fuel petcock having been driven into the side of my calf.
Since there was no possible way I was going to go anywhere near a San Francisco hospital with a firearm on my person, I wound up shoving some gauze into the wound and wrapping it up a bit, and making the 50-mile ride home where I dropped off my pistol and went to the hospital for stitches. I also discovered that evening that the Metreon Theater didn't keep a first aid kit.
The ironic thing is I was accosted, threatened, and had a bottle thrown at me by a couple of San Francisco's notoriously surly and demanding homeless that evening, and was very relieved to have been armed.
That's the problem, though - you never know what could happen. If I'd been knocked unconscious instead of just getting crunched a little bit, I could have been in some deep manure.
bigmark300
New member
Jeff1259
It is a very bad idea to pack without paper!
You being a firefighter, you should have no problem getting a job in another state!
Here is a link on state gun laws, This should help you decide a good state to move to. untill then, only carry pepper spray.
Remember! You cant help your family if your in jail!
http://www.packing.org/states.jsp
It is a very bad idea to pack without paper!
You being a firefighter, you should have no problem getting a job in another state!
Here is a link on state gun laws, This should help you decide a good state to move to. untill then, only carry pepper spray.
Remember! You cant help your family if your in jail!
http://www.packing.org/states.jsp
It's a shame that people have to resort to having to worry about them trying to protect their family.
When a government puts you into that position, then I truly believe that they should be tried for treason.
You could always move to Oregon, we have, for the time being, very good concealed carry laws (I know, that statement is an oxymoron). We are a shall issue state.
But, I also understand that a person doesn't wish to leave their home or state. So, what you need to do is to get involved in the local government to get them to start issueing permits. If the permits are issued by the sheriffs department then you have the option of voting them out. If by the local LEO's then it gets harder because they are appointed.
California took an "almost" right step when Arnold (can't spell his last name) was elected. It was more of a "shuffle" in the right direction. I truly believe if you all can get rid of boxer and feinstein(sp?) then the ball would start rolling faster toward freedom.
If you wish to stay in the state, maybe move to Northern California? Lots of work there in the summertime
(same in Oregon ). I have also heard that it's easier to gain a permit in the Northern part.
Also, make sure that you are allowed to carry OC or a taser. Some states even have anti-self defense laws concerning there uses.
When a government puts you into that position, then I truly believe that they should be tried for treason.
You could always move to Oregon, we have, for the time being, very good concealed carry laws (I know, that statement is an oxymoron). We are a shall issue state.
But, I also understand that a person doesn't wish to leave their home or state. So, what you need to do is to get involved in the local government to get them to start issueing permits. If the permits are issued by the sheriffs department then you have the option of voting them out. If by the local LEO's then it gets harder because they are appointed.
California took an "almost" right step when Arnold (can't spell his last name) was elected. It was more of a "shuffle" in the right direction. I truly believe if you all can get rid of boxer and feinstein(sp?) then the ball would start rolling faster toward freedom.
If you wish to stay in the state, maybe move to Northern California? Lots of work there in the summertime
(same in Oregon ). I have also heard that it's easier to gain a permit in the Northern part.Also, make sure that you are allowed to carry OC or a taser. Some states even have anti-self defense laws concerning there uses
.progunner1957
Moderator
Jeff,
I would consult an attorney about filing a suit against the court, the city, the county or whoever is responsible for denying you a permit. You may or may not get any satisfaction, but it is at least worth a try.
That having been said, if it were me, I would pack up and move to a state that does not strip you of your right to carry a firearm for self-defense. You have already suffered one attack; you worry about your children growing up fatherless, your wife a widow. If it were me, I would have to ask myself: Is living in California really worth risking my life and the lives of my famiily?
Some people would say that moving is an extreme measure; sometimes extreme measures are necessary. Personally, I take the right of self defense that seriously. I refuse to live as a disarmed "subject" of any tribunal of beuraucrats - local, state or federal.
These are my thoughts on the subject - my intention is not to tell you what you should do, but to provoke thought.
Best of luck, whatever you decide.
I would consult an attorney about filing a suit against the court, the city, the county or whoever is responsible for denying you a permit. You may or may not get any satisfaction, but it is at least worth a try.
That having been said, if it were me, I would pack up and move to a state that does not strip you of your right to carry a firearm for self-defense. You have already suffered one attack; you worry about your children growing up fatherless, your wife a widow. If it were me, I would have to ask myself: Is living in California really worth risking my life and the lives of my famiily?
Some people would say that moving is an extreme measure; sometimes extreme measures are necessary. Personally, I take the right of self defense that seriously. I refuse to live as a disarmed "subject" of any tribunal of beuraucrats - local, state or federal.
These are my thoughts on the subject - my intention is not to tell you what you should do, but to provoke thought.
Best of luck, whatever you decide.
But, I also understand that a person doesn't wish to leave their home or state. So, what you need to do is to get involved in the local government to get them to start issueing permits. If the permits are issued by the sheriffs department then you have the option of voting them out. If by the local LEO's then it gets harder because they are appointed.
Easier said than done in California. I lived there for five years, and it was usually considered a "winning year" if we managed to block all but one or two of the worst anti-gun bills in the legislature. It was very refreshing to come to New Hampshire as a Free State Project member, and have the opportunity to chat about concealed-carry methods and issues with the governor and various state and local representatives at the annual GO-NH banquet.
An option Jeff might consider is establishing a legal domicile in a California jurisdiction which has pro-gun law enforcment heads. The permit issued there is good statewide.
In any case, Jeff, I definitely recommend getting in touch with Jim March via http://www.equalccw.com/ as he's been working on the problem of California CCW racism, cronyism, and discrimination for the last two years or more.
Easier said than done in California. I lived there for five years, and it was usually considered a "winning year" if we managed to block all but one or two of the worst anti-gun bills in the legislature. It was very refreshing to come to New Hampshire as a Free State Project member, and have the opportunity to chat about concealed-carry methods and issues with the governor and various state and local representatives at the annual GO-NH banquet.
An option Jeff might consider is establishing a legal domicile in a California jurisdiction which has pro-gun law enforcment heads. The permit issued there is good statewide.
In any case, Jeff, I definitely recommend getting in touch with Jim March via http://www.equalccw.com/ as he's been working on the problem of California CCW racism, cronyism, and discrimination for the last two years or more.
Mvpel, this is, IMO, not a good reason to be armed. The homeless people are usually drunk or drugged, and can neither run nor think about a situation strategically. They might throw bottles, but what more can they do?
There were lots of creeps around when I lived in SFO, but I could see real trouble coming half a block away. All a gun would have gotten me is a panic every time I neared a police officer.
If you insist on carrying without a permit, at least make sure the gun is registered. In California, your problem is *much* worse if you get caught carrying an unregistered handgun concealed. I am not sure if it has to be registered to you. You are aware, I suppose, that even in California you are allowed to carry concealed in your home or place of business with no permit at all. Also, I think there are certain circumstances (going to/from a range, to/from hunting, etc.) where concealed carry may be allowed without a permit.
You really need to talk to someone who knows what he's talking about (not me) or do the research yourself. Try Alllaw.com.
Tim
You really need to talk to someone who knows what he's talking about (not me) or do the research yourself. Try Alllaw.com.
Tim
MeekAndMild
New member
Move. Regardless if they start passing CCW out free and issue free guns with them Kali isn't worth it.
The kids deserve to grow up in a state where they will be able to afford a house one day. You can buy the same house in Tennessee for $40,000 that in Kali would cost you $500,000. Do the math. You can make a hundred thousand dollars a year in Kali and be worse off than you would be making twenty thousand in Mississippi.
The kids deserve to grow up in a state where they will be able to afford a house one day. You can buy the same house in Tennessee for $40,000 that in Kali would cost you $500,000. Do the math. You can make a hundred thousand dollars a year in Kali and be worse off than you would be making twenty thousand in Mississippi.
captainsdad2
Inactive
Don't carry without CCW
The trouble is that usually LE would cut you a break since you are FD, but there is always going to be the one LE with the heavy badge who would write his mother.
Since you are young, you have the choice to bail to a realistic state that is shall issue. If you are like me though the weather here is so great usually (although not right now) that you really hate to give it up.
If you decide to stay, get politically active, join the NRA and/or other pro second admendment groups. Vote to replace the idiots who are running the state now who are anti-second admendment.
Do everything you can to help California catch up with the majority of the other states and become a shall issue state.
Just do not carry without a CCW because it can cost you a great career, your family, and your financial future, as well as keep you from being able to own a gun to at least protect your home and the ability to get a CCW from any other state or from Calif if we ever get shall issue passed.
Also, make sure of the laws on OC or any other type of self defense item. I believe that most batons are illegal to carry.
What ever you decide, good luck to you. :
)
The trouble is that usually LE would cut you a break since you are FD, but there is always going to be the one LE with the heavy badge who would write his mother.
Since you are young, you have the choice to bail to a realistic state that is shall issue. If you are like me though the weather here is so great usually (although not right now) that you really hate to give it up.
If you decide to stay, get politically active, join the NRA and/or other pro second admendment groups. Vote to replace the idiots who are running the state now who are anti-second admendment.
Do everything you can to help California catch up with the majority of the other states and become a shall issue state.
Just do not carry without a CCW because it can cost you a great career, your family, and your financial future, as well as keep you from being able to own a gun to at least protect your home and the ability to get a CCW from any other state or from Calif if we ever get shall issue passed.
Also, make sure of the laws on OC or any other type of self defense item. I believe that most batons are illegal to carry.
What ever you decide, good luck to you. :
)F350Lawman
New member
Only you can answer the question, and I supose deep down you already have your answer. Which do you fear more, needing a gun and not having one or the risk of being prosecuted for carrying and/or using the gun?
If you decide to carry, find a way to practice. Not just target shooting, but drawing and shooting.
Not really related, but my 78 year old father (somewhat younger when it occurred) has been robbed at gunpoint. I would feel better knowing he is him carrying than not carrying. Even in NYC, no 78 year old is getting jail time for a good shoot even if the gun isn't legal for CC.
If you decide to carry, find a way to practice. Not just target shooting, but drawing and shooting.
Not really related, but my 78 year old father (somewhat younger when it occurred) has been robbed at gunpoint. I would feel better knowing he is him carrying than not carrying. Even in NYC, no 78 year old is getting jail time for a good shoot even if the gun isn't legal for CC.
patentnonsense
Inactive
Lots of good comments, but I just have to add (for all of us here):
don't,
don't,
don't make posts which suggest that you are planning to break the law - those can come back to hurt you. Something that is a hypothetical or a joke or a reductio ad absurdam may not be understood as such if your words are used against you in court. As adults we have the right to think through moral questions and to use our best judgement, but "thinking out loud" on the internet should be done with caution.
don't,
don't,
don't make posts which suggest that you are planning to break the law - those can come back to hurt you. Something that is a hypothetical or a joke or a reductio ad absurdam may not be understood as such if your words are used against you in court. As adults we have the right to think through moral questions and to use our best judgement, but "thinking out loud" on the internet should be done with caution.
Jeff,
I have a couple of ideas that no one has yet made.
1) For your home and all autos. Purchase dry fire extinguishers. If attacked in either locations, empty the dry powder on the assilant. Aim for the head. Once empty, the metal container makes a pretty good baton. If asked why you picked that as a weapon. Hey, you ARE a fire fighter and you always are prepared to fight a fire. It was the closet thing at hand. Plus I'm fairly confident you can teach your whole family how to use one. AGAIN, aim at the head and let 'er rip.
2) EVERY person here assumes you will be caught using a concealed weapon. By far and away, CRIMINALS and plain citizens use firearms daily and most rarely see the inside of the police station. WHY? Because when they DO use a weapon (regardless the reason), they keep moving on. They DON'T dial 911 and report their use of an illegally carried weapon. Good, bad or indifferent, that's just a plain fact. Some of the criminals even get on video surveillance tape and don't ever get caught.
In this respect, I will use the example of the bicyclist in SF that was accosted by a criminal who tried to rob him. The bicyclist got off his bike, pulled his illegally carried pistol and shot the guy, got back on his bike and pedaled into the sunset, never to be seen again.
I have a sign given to me by my little sister several years ago, who lives on a ranch in West Texas twenty plus miles outside San Angelo. That sign says it all.
WE DON'T DIAL 911!
Nuff said.
I have a couple of ideas that no one has yet made.
1) For your home and all autos. Purchase dry fire extinguishers. If attacked in either locations, empty the dry powder on the assilant. Aim for the head. Once empty, the metal container makes a pretty good baton. If asked why you picked that as a weapon. Hey, you ARE a fire fighter and you always are prepared to fight a fire. It was the closet thing at hand. Plus I'm fairly confident you can teach your whole family how to use one. AGAIN, aim at the head and let 'er rip.
2) EVERY person here assumes you will be caught using a concealed weapon. By far and away, CRIMINALS and plain citizens use firearms daily and most rarely see the inside of the police station. WHY? Because when they DO use a weapon (regardless the reason), they keep moving on. They DON'T dial 911 and report their use of an illegally carried weapon. Good, bad or indifferent, that's just a plain fact. Some of the criminals even get on video surveillance tape and don't ever get caught.
In this respect, I will use the example of the bicyclist in SF that was accosted by a criminal who tried to rob him. The bicyclist got off his bike, pulled his illegally carried pistol and shot the guy, got back on his bike and pedaled into the sunset, never to be seen again.
I have a sign given to me by my little sister several years ago, who lives on a ranch in West Texas twenty plus miles outside San Angelo. That sign says it all.
WE DON'T DIAL 911!
Nuff said.