hypothetical situation - unknowingly drawing on LEO
- Thread starter Chris Phelps
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shooter john?
QUOTE/Many are forgetting that not only are LEO's trained to NEVER give up our gun, we are also trained to DOMINATE ANY SITUATION that we are placed into./QUOTE
Let's then turn the tables around, you are a LEO so you walk into an unknown to you undercover LEO that's purposedly looks very threatening and does not have ID on him, he is holding at gunpoint a loved one that you know to be the last person in the world to get in a position to be arrested but quite wealthy and a prime robbery victim, you ARE TRAINED TO BE IN CONTROL so according to this the first thing you do is pull out both your gun and shield and draw on the person threatening your loved one, identify yourself and tell him to drop the weapon or else.
The guy responds that he is on the job and has no ID on him and BEING A LEO HE IS TRAINED TO ALSO NEVER GIVE UP HIS GUN AND TO BE THE ONE IN CONTROL SO HE WOULD NOT GIVE UP HIS WEAPON.
What do you do?
QUOTE/Many are forgetting that not only are LEO's trained to NEVER give up our gun, we are also trained to DOMINATE ANY SITUATION that we are placed into./QUOTE
Let's then turn the tables around, you are a LEO so you walk into an unknown to you undercover LEO that's purposedly looks very threatening and does not have ID on him, he is holding at gunpoint a loved one that you know to be the last person in the world to get in a position to be arrested but quite wealthy and a prime robbery victim, you ARE TRAINED TO BE IN CONTROL so according to this the first thing you do is pull out both your gun and shield and draw on the person threatening your loved one, identify yourself and tell him to drop the weapon or else.
The guy responds that he is on the job and has no ID on him and BEING A LEO HE IS TRAINED TO ALSO NEVER GIVE UP HIS GUN AND TO BE THE ONE IN CONTROL SO HE WOULD NOT GIVE UP HIS WEAPON.
What do you do?
If I (a cop) come across an armed individual holding my family member, as described above, the off-duty guy and I are going to talk. My first action is drawing and saying "POLICE!!! Drop the Gun!" If he says that he's a cop too, I'm going to ask for ID of some kind. If he says he has none, I'm going to talk to him (which means he's not shooting my family member.) If this is indeed a cop, and they are holding my family member, then they are waiting for a uniformed guy to come make an arrest or waiting for backup. They are not holding my family member at gun point with the express purpose of shooting them.
I will have my ID on me and show it. I optimistically think we can talk about this. The scene I'm envisioning has my family member prone, face down and the officer most likely standing with weapon pointed at them or straddling them in order to cuff/control. I believe that I can tell if the person holding the gun is doing something in an LEO manner or not. Let me try and illustrate what I mean in that regard:
Someone holding my family member in this manner: my family member (f-m) is either on their stomach, knees or feet and facing away from the person with gun. The off duty cop (ODC) is standing in a more or less traditional firing stance and giving orders in a commanding voice, or in some way "controlling" the situation. If the someone holding my family member is talking in a less than "professional" way (i.e. slang, cursing, etc.) that's one strike against them being LE. Also, if they are touching my family member with the gun (ie-against their head/body), that's also not a sound tactic taught to LEOs.
Now, I also believe that once I show my ID/badge, the situation can de-escalate. We can all wait for the on-duty cops to show up and sort it out.
(realize that I am actually writing from both sides here, as I can only base how the Off-duty cop would react based on how I would most likely react if another cop challenged me while I was holding his/her family member at gunpoint)
I will have my ID on me and show it. I optimistically think we can talk about this. The scene I'm envisioning has my family member prone, face down and the officer most likely standing with weapon pointed at them or straddling them in order to cuff/control. I believe that I can tell if the person holding the gun is doing something in an LEO manner or not. Let me try and illustrate what I mean in that regard:
Someone holding my family member in this manner: my family member (f-m) is either on their stomach, knees or feet and facing away from the person with gun. The off duty cop (ODC) is standing in a more or less traditional firing stance and giving orders in a commanding voice, or in some way "controlling" the situation. If the someone holding my family member is talking in a less than "professional" way (i.e. slang, cursing, etc.) that's one strike against them being LE. Also, if they are touching my family member with the gun (ie-against their head/body), that's also not a sound tactic taught to LEOs.
Now, I also believe that once I show my ID/badge, the situation can de-escalate. We can all wait for the on-duty cops to show up and sort it out.
(realize that I am actually writing from both sides here, as I can only base how the Off-duty cop would react based on how I would most likely react if another cop challenged me while I was holding his/her family member at gunpoint)
Thank you Jociii,
To me, that is a thoughtful way of handling the situation that can be learned from and seeks to defuse the situation.
However, what if he is not handling the brother in a "LEO" way (On the ground etc.). Suppose the brother standing there having a gun pointed at him. Doesn't too much talking lead to distraction? Again, my way of thinking is if you have the edge (you have the drop on him) and you have no way of knowing at this point if he is legitimate shouldn't you use that advantage to de facto take control of the situation and temporarily disarm him? (speaking and acting towards him in a calm and collected manner)
I think you bring up a good point on the manner of the so-said cop. I think everything should be taken into account (no one thing per se): The way he speaks, the way he is dressed, the way he carries himself, etc. And likewise if you are presented in the same manner (like not dressed like a gang banger) it will help put him at ease if he is a real policeman
To me, that is a thoughtful way of handling the situation that can be learned from and seeks to defuse the situation.
However, what if he is not handling the brother in a "LEO" way (On the ground etc.). Suppose the brother standing there having a gun pointed at him. Doesn't too much talking lead to distraction? Again, my way of thinking is if you have the edge (you have the drop on him) and you have no way of knowing at this point if he is legitimate shouldn't you use that advantage to de facto take control of the situation and temporarily disarm him? (speaking and acting towards him in a calm and collected manner)
I think you bring up a good point on the manner of the so-said cop. I think everything should be taken into account (no one thing per se): The way he speaks, the way he is dressed, the way he carries himself, etc. And likewise if you are presented in the same manner (like not dressed like a gang banger) it will help put him at ease if he is a real policeman
stephen426
New member
I hate to admit it but I believe that the typical LEO would react the way shooter_john described. If I were an LEO, I would engage the threat immediately. Think about this guys. Bad guys will sometimes have accomplices. Do you think a real LEO would give up their weapon to the bad guy's accomplice? Cases of mistaken identity have occured before. Your brother can resemble the sketchy description of a convenience store clerk that just got robbed.
I think that common sense must prevail here. You guys need to engage your eyes and your brains before engaging your targets. I'm not saying to wait for the bad guy to blow your brother's brains out but LEO's and bad guys tend to act differently. If your brother is spread up against a car and getting frisked with his hands behind his head, chances are you are dealing with LEO (Would your brother act that way if he wasn't dealing with a LEO). Even undercover LEOs tend to drive vehicles that are obviously LEO (discreet lights, license plates, extra antennas, Crown Victorias or something similar....
If the unknown subject has a gun pressed to you brother's back and appears to be robbing your brother, then you react appropriately (don't forget you are in a public place where a bad guy will not want to be conspicuous). I would watch for a few seconds and try to assess the situation as well as possible BEFORE acting.
If I was led to believe that I was dealing with a bad guy, I would consider drawing. One thing you guys failed to consider was a possible "hostage" tyoe stand off. Say you are dealing with a bad guy and he grabs your brother in a choke hold and puts the gun to his head. He then demands that you drop you weapon and your wallet or else he will blow your brother's head off. Do you risk the shot, risk your brother getting shot, or do you comply? If the bad guy is not out right shooting your brother, maybe it is better to wait until your brother is out of danger and then confront the bad guy. If you confront the bad guy at that time and then end up shooting him, you are guilty of using deadly force to protect property.
There are a couple of scenarios that are much more obvious. If someone is shoving my wife inside her car and getting in after her, I will sneak up on him and put a bullet in his brain before he even knows what hit him. I don't give a damn if it is LEO. No LEO in his right mind would be putting someone in their own car and then getting in after them, especially at gun point. Sounds like a car jacking leading to a rape to me.
I think that common sense must prevail here. You guys need to engage your eyes and your brains before engaging your targets. I'm not saying to wait for the bad guy to blow your brother's brains out but LEO's and bad guys tend to act differently. If your brother is spread up against a car and getting frisked with his hands behind his head, chances are you are dealing with LEO (Would your brother act that way if he wasn't dealing with a LEO). Even undercover LEOs tend to drive vehicles that are obviously LEO (discreet lights, license plates, extra antennas, Crown Victorias or something similar....
If the unknown subject has a gun pressed to you brother's back and appears to be robbing your brother, then you react appropriately (don't forget you are in a public place where a bad guy will not want to be conspicuous). I would watch for a few seconds and try to assess the situation as well as possible BEFORE acting.
If I was led to believe that I was dealing with a bad guy, I would consider drawing. One thing you guys failed to consider was a possible "hostage" tyoe stand off. Say you are dealing with a bad guy and he grabs your brother in a choke hold and puts the gun to his head. He then demands that you drop you weapon and your wallet or else he will blow your brother's head off. Do you risk the shot, risk your brother getting shot, or do you comply? If the bad guy is not out right shooting your brother, maybe it is better to wait until your brother is out of danger and then confront the bad guy. If you confront the bad guy at that time and then end up shooting him, you are guilty of using deadly force to protect property.
There are a couple of scenarios that are much more obvious. If someone is shoving my wife inside her car and getting in after her, I will sneak up on him and put a bullet in his brain before he even knows what hit him. I don't give a damn if it is LEO. No LEO in his right mind would be putting someone in their own car and then getting in after them, especially at gun point. Sounds like a car jacking leading to a rape to me.
stephen426
New member
Doug .38PR,
Don't let the officer's style of clothes fool you. You could be dealing with either an anti gang unit or undercover narcotics. I'm sure they don't go around dressed in shirts and ties. If they are making an arrest though, they should be doing so in the "proper" way. jcoiii got the jump on me with his post so sorry if much if his "theme" is repeated in my post.
Don't let the officer's style of clothes fool you. You could be dealing with either an anti gang unit or undercover narcotics. I'm sure they don't go around dressed in shirts and ties. If they are making an arrest though, they should be doing so in the "proper" way. jcoiii got the jump on me with his post so sorry if much if his "theme" is repeated in my post.
stephen,
as I said, you can't take any one feature alone but take it all together into account. It isn't a deciding factor, but it does direct you.
This gives a pretty good argument for NOT hesitating and talking too much. Pull your gun quick and cover him. Get him under control and if he doesn't comply, shoot. stop the situation before it becomes a hostage situation
as I said, you can't take any one feature alone but take it all together into account. It isn't a deciding factor, but it does direct you.
This gives a pretty good argument for NOT hesitating and talking too much. Pull your gun quick and cover him. Get him under control and if he doesn't comply, shoot. stop the situation before it becomes a hostage situation
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Just to say again, I have seen FOF folks held at gunpoint with a person talking. They were shot repeatedly before they could get a shot off.
Maybe someone thinks they are hot stuff but I suggest you try this before you opine that you won't be shot.
Also, even if you shoot - you seem to have the opinion that your shot is instantly disabling - don't count on it.
Also, I might remind you that some folks are taught that when holding a person at gun point and threatened - shoot the person in front of you immediately and whirl to engage the other as they will be standing there with their mouth opinion - unless well trained.
Someone has also mentioned backup - crooks and cops might have it. Again, in FOF, when the gunfight starts - you say: Why, O dear I have commandoed this dude and now someone else is shooting me.
Ok- in a convenience store robbery - I'm in line in back of a BG shooter. He shoots the clerk. I draw and take him down and tell him not to move. I'm drawn on by his backup. I shoot him (as he is talking). General gunfight continues.
I think there is a touch too much of assuming the plan goes your way when you take out the gun. It might but in this one, I return to the verbal challenge approach. That will distract the ambiguous gun dude. If he is a real bad guy, brother can do the Chuck Norris on him or flee. It will be disambiguated. Of course, if unknown to you, your brother is a criminal, then the cop will be mad at you. Don't count on your brother to come back for you.
Maybe someone thinks they are hot stuff but I suggest you try this before you opine that you won't be shot.
Also, even if you shoot - you seem to have the opinion that your shot is instantly disabling - don't count on it.
Also, I might remind you that some folks are taught that when holding a person at gun point and threatened - shoot the person in front of you immediately and whirl to engage the other as they will be standing there with their mouth opinion - unless well trained.
Someone has also mentioned backup - crooks and cops might have it. Again, in FOF, when the gunfight starts - you say: Why, O dear I have commandoed this dude and now someone else is shooting me.
Ok- in a convenience store robbery - I'm in line in back of a BG shooter. He shoots the clerk. I draw and take him down and tell him not to move. I'm drawn on by his backup. I shoot him (as he is talking). General gunfight continues.
I think there is a touch too much of assuming the plan goes your way when you take out the gun. It might but in this one, I return to the verbal challenge approach. That will distract the ambiguous gun dude. If he is a real bad guy, brother can do the Chuck Norris on him or flee. It will be disambiguated. Of course, if unknown to you, your brother is a criminal, then the cop will be mad at you. Don't count on your brother to come back for you.
stephen426
New member
Doug .38PR said:
Doug,
I am assuming that you are taking your position from the point of view that you have already confronted the person holding your brother at gun point. I guess that leaves you few options. My point of view is maybe you should consider observing for just a moment before deciding to confront the subject. The subject does not know if you are related or if you even know each other at all (unless you are twins and dress alike
) Like we both agreed, the differences are pretty clear between the way a LEO would act and the way a bad guy would act. It is much better to acertain the situation rather than acting without thinking.Are you willing to shoot without confronting the unknown subject, assuming you are firing from a position of cover and have a reasonably good shot? So far the unknow subject has not shot your brother. If he was planning to do so, your brother would probably be a bloody heap on the floor. In that case, blast away. Most robbers don't want to shoot someone and end up with a murder rap. (I also know that some coked up SOBs don't give a crap and would just a soon shoot their own mother if they didn't cough up the dough for their next fix) It is always better to have more information than to show your hand too early. Your pocket aces may get trumped by lowly trip 2s (sorry, I just played poker yesterday so I'm still in poker mode
)OneInTheChamber
New member
I'd yell at him from a distance (say 20-30 feet), in a position over cover, with my gun out, but out of sight too (behind cover). You'll be able to tell by his reaction and tone whether he is legit or not. Chances are he's legit.
If you draw on a cop it's not going to be good. He's not going to put down his gun. If anything he'll order you to put yours down. If you don't, you will go to jail for it; or worse.
It is a bad situation at best. I don't think an off duty LEO is going to be holding him with a gun up against his chest like a BG would. I think an LEO is much more likely to take him to the ground, and put him in a hold/cuffs. Also look at how your brother is acting. Is he scared? Or does he look like he is trying to explain things to a cop? That will be a big factor on how you act.
If you draw on a cop it's not going to be good. He's not going to put down his gun. If anything he'll order you to put yours down. If you don't, you will go to jail for it; or worse.
It is a bad situation at best. I don't think an off duty LEO is going to be holding him with a gun up against his chest like a BG would. I think an LEO is much more likely to take him to the ground, and put him in a hold/cuffs. Also look at how your brother is acting. Is he scared? Or does he look like he is trying to explain things to a cop? That will be a big factor on how you act.
Blackwater OPS
New member
#1 I walk around the corner and see my Mother/Wife (I know thread said brother, but I don't have one) held at GP by a non-uniformed person with no ID visible. -Target gets engaged ASAP, head shots.
#2 I am off duty, and someone's life is in danger(only time I would do it), so I have drawn my weapon on a suspect. Another suspect shows up and is exibiting a firearm.
Second suspect gets engaged ASAP, centermass, then I attept to secure first suspect, if he has a weapon out at that time, suspect gets engaged ASAP, centermass.
#3 I am on duty, but plain clothes. The only experience I have with this is counter-terror and PSD(working with the secret service or Diplomatic Security) so, if I have drawn my weapon it is because I have percieved a threat or #2 applies. Another suspect shows up and is exibiting a firearm.
First suspect gets 1 HS, second gets engaged centermass.
So, based on my training, exp. and general thoughts on staying alive, thats how I would respond. It may not be perfect and it's open to review, but that is my take.
#2 I am off duty, and someone's life is in danger(only time I would do it), so I have drawn my weapon on a suspect. Another suspect shows up and is exibiting a firearm.
Second suspect gets engaged ASAP, centermass, then I attept to secure first suspect, if he has a weapon out at that time, suspect gets engaged ASAP, centermass.
#3 I am on duty, but plain clothes. The only experience I have with this is counter-terror and PSD(working with the secret service or Diplomatic Security) so, if I have drawn my weapon it is because I have percieved a threat or #2 applies. Another suspect shows up and is exibiting a firearm.
First suspect gets 1 HS, second gets engaged centermass.
So, based on my training, exp. and general thoughts on staying alive, thats how I would respond. It may not be perfect and it's open to review, but that is my take.
stephen426
New member
Sorry to say Blackwater OPS but you must have a get out of jail free card that we don't. Maybe you are responding the way you did because you substituted your mother or your wife in place of your brother. Women rarely commit crimes where they would need to be held a gun point (compared to guys that is). Lets say it was a good male friend of yours rather than your wife or sister. You don't believe that they are capable of doing anything wrong but there is always the case of mistaken identity. You also mentioned that you would engage the target ASAP. Like I said, engage your eyes and your brain before you engage your target. I don't have diplomatic immunity or any other get out of jail card. I prefer to assess the situation first before becoming some big man's piece of booty in the big house. If the assessment is that the threat is indeed a bad guy, I'd pop him in the melon in a heartbeat.
Chris Phelps
New member
I have definitly drawn the conclusion that the current LEO's should NOT be in the position they are in.
OK... I will put myself in the position of the LEO. I am holding a percieved BG at gunpoint, when a voice from behind says "drop your weapon!"
I identify myself as an officer. The voice behind me asks for ID. Instantly I would know this is a reasonable person and not someone who wants to kill me. Think about it... if they knew what was going on, and they were another BG, they would scream something along the lines of "fk you pig!"
I would not instantly assume I was going to die... this is assanine. People who want to shoot you do not try to get your weapon out of your hand. What kind of BS are you LEO's spewing out about?
In all seriousness... inspired by current LEO posts here... I would shoot you without hesitation in this situation. Its obvious you dont feel anyone should walk out of this alive... Not if someone has the NERVE to think you might be a BG. I really don't understand your logic, and there is definitly no way I would stake my life or my brothers on the possibility that you would have more common sense when actually put in this situation than what you have sitting behind a computer screen with all the time in the world to play the situation out in your head.
Just because I ordered your firearm down does NOT mean I am uncompliant. What it DOES mean is "hey, I dont want anyone to get shot, but you are an unknown person with a firearm pointed at a loved one." I'd like to believe that every cop in the nation would understand this and simply ID themselves and tell me to drop my weapon, which I would gladly do after they have been ID'd. But, I guess with all the Barney Fife's running this country, its easier to kill you and let the judge sort it out.
One last thing though... ask your wife/parents/kids how they would feel about your actions in this situation. I'd hate to be the one to tell them you died needlessly because you didnt feel the need to ID yourself.
OK... I will put myself in the position of the LEO. I am holding a percieved BG at gunpoint, when a voice from behind says "drop your weapon!"
I identify myself as an officer. The voice behind me asks for ID. Instantly I would know this is a reasonable person and not someone who wants to kill me. Think about it... if they knew what was going on, and they were another BG, they would scream something along the lines of "fk you pig!"
I would not instantly assume I was going to die... this is assanine. People who want to shoot you do not try to get your weapon out of your hand. What kind of BS are you LEO's spewing out about?
In all seriousness... inspired by current LEO posts here... I would shoot you without hesitation in this situation. Its obvious you dont feel anyone should walk out of this alive... Not if someone has the NERVE to think you might be a BG. I really don't understand your logic, and there is definitly no way I would stake my life or my brothers on the possibility that you would have more common sense when actually put in this situation than what you have sitting behind a computer screen with all the time in the world to play the situation out in your head.
Just because I ordered your firearm down does NOT mean I am uncompliant. What it DOES mean is "hey, I dont want anyone to get shot, but you are an unknown person with a firearm pointed at a loved one." I'd like to believe that every cop in the nation would understand this and simply ID themselves and tell me to drop my weapon, which I would gladly do after they have been ID'd. But, I guess with all the Barney Fife's running this country, its easier to kill you and let the judge sort it out.
One last thing though... ask your wife/parents/kids how they would feel about your actions in this situation. I'd hate to be the one to tell them you died needlessly because you didnt feel the need to ID yourself.
superpelly
New member
I'm surrounded by idiots!! from the Lion King movie.
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armedandsafe
New member
Brother, sister or grandson, he's going on the ground with the gunholder. Brother is going on the ground first, because he's unarmed and already stopped. LEO is going on the ground because I have the advantage, assuming I'm not already in the line of fire.
Putting them both on the ground should ease the mind of the LEO at least a little bit.
I did draw on two plainclothes officer once and came out on top and ok, because I had the advantage of cover, surprise and their guns were empty. (Long story, but funny NOW.) I drew on another plainschothes cop and ended up helping him out of a dicey situation, because I recognised him after I moved around to his side.
The scene will play out in as many different ways as there are plainsclothes oficers, because each one is going to react differently. That is an opinion and might be worth about the paper it is printed on.
Pops
Putting them both on the ground should ease the mind of the LEO at least a little bit.
I did draw on two plainclothes officer once and came out on top and ok, because I had the advantage of cover, surprise and their guns were empty. (Long story, but funny NOW.) I drew on another plainschothes cop and ended up helping him out of a dicey situation, because I recognised him after I moved around to his side.
The scene will play out in as many different ways as there are plainsclothes oficers, because each one is going to react differently. That is an opinion and might be worth about the paper it is printed on.
Pops
shooter_john
New member
Wow- I have dinner and visit with my wife for a while and now I have become Rambo!
I don't know anyone at TFL personally, and will not dare talk to you like your an idiot or make statements about your level of competence in your profession like a couple of people here have done, but there seems to be a great lack of knowledge in how LEO's are trained in some of the replies to this topic.
To think that you are going to give orders to a police offer who is involved in a situation and make him do what you want is quite...
Rambo-esque?
I'm gald to see that there are some logical thinkers in the bunch who would choose to observe the situation and then get involved if necessary rather than just shooting a police officer. If you pay attention to what is going on, I don't think it could take more than a couple of seconds to determine a legit LEO from BG.
Unfortunately, it is a little harder to trust people anymore, so LEO's and even more so RESPONSIBLE armed citizen's must be on their toe's more than ever. Know what you're getting into before you open fire on someone who has ID'ed themself as LEO and appears that they are legit. That being said, I would hope that said LEO is acting professionally and as courteously as you/ the person he is dealing with will let them.
To: Bruchi
That is a seriously bad situation, but if it played out just like you said it did, then I think that I would be fairly confident that I was indeed dealing with a fellow LEO. If he wasn't, we would would've probaly gotten into a gunfight before any of that conversation took place.
And finally...
One of you RAMBO's reply to a Police Officer's order or Verbal ID with 'We'll see about that!' and then let me know how that goes for you!
I don't know anyone at TFL personally, and will not dare talk to you like your an idiot or make statements about your level of competence in your profession like a couple of people here have done, but there seems to be a great lack of knowledge in how LEO's are trained in some of the replies to this topic.
To think that you are going to give orders to a police offer who is involved in a situation and make him do what you want is quite...
Rambo-esque? I'm gald to see that there are some logical thinkers in the bunch who would choose to observe the situation and then get involved if necessary rather than just shooting a police officer. If you pay attention to what is going on, I don't think it could take more than a couple of seconds to determine a legit LEO from BG.
Unfortunately, it is a little harder to trust people anymore, so LEO's and even more so RESPONSIBLE armed citizen's must be on their toe's more than ever. Know what you're getting into before you open fire on someone who has ID'ed themself as LEO and appears that they are legit. That being said, I would hope that said LEO is acting professionally and as courteously as you/ the person he is dealing with will let them.
To: Bruchi
That is a seriously bad situation, but if it played out just like you said it did, then I think that I would be fairly confident that I was indeed dealing with a fellow LEO. If he wasn't, we would would've probaly gotten into a gunfight before any of that conversation took place.
And finally...
One of you RAMBO's reply to a Police Officer's order or Verbal ID with 'We'll see about that!' and then let me know how that goes for you!
shooter_john
New member
Ok- Sidenote from me, AKA Barney Rambo Fyfe. I apologize for assuming intelligence- but If I had to get involved in an off duty situation, I would ID myself both verbally and with my badge and ID before I even drew my weapon if at all possible.
That way when the crazed brother/ bad guy/ itchin to kill somebody Rambo guy comes running around the corner with a gun pointed at me, Me and all of the other witnesses (we're at Walmart right?) can tell the grand jury 'He yelled Police drop the weapon' and he had a badge and ID visible, but the guy did not comply, and that is when the officer shot him.
That way when the crazed brother/ bad guy/ itchin to kill somebody Rambo guy comes running around the corner with a gun pointed at me, Me and all of the other witnesses (we're at Walmart right?) can tell the grand jury 'He yelled Police drop the weapon' and he had a badge and ID visible, but the guy did not comply, and that is when the officer shot him.
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