hypothetical armed robber unaware of you

I don't know that the situations you or I so simply hypothesize can or have or will actually exist in real life, but I will take a stab at answering your question.

IF I am sure that there is no seeded backup
AND I think that the perp might shoot someone
AND my state permits me to shoot in those circumstances

OR (I think the perp might shoot me
AND there is no seeded backup)

OR I think the perp will shoot me

THEN I will shoot him in the head repeatedly without warning

OTHERWISE I will not even think about my gun.

As far as your relatives or self being in the position of the teller, I advise you and your relatives to move to Texas and don't bother trying to lay any guilt trips on me for YOUR personal choices. I don't blame anyone in Texas for my living in MA, and I don't expect them to blame me for where they live. You want to be protected, hire a bodyguard or buy your own gun.
 
This is a quote from my local paper today:

"Dec. 21 - A man with a gun who tried to rob The Final Fade barbershop on North Plum St. got a suprise when a barber and a customer pulled out guns and fired at him. Police do not know if the man was hit"

I think there is no clear answer, it all depends on the each situation at the time.
 
"Dec. 21 - A man with a gun who tried to rob The Final Fade barbershop on North Plum St. got a suprise when a barber and a customer pulled out guns and fired at him. Police do not know if the man was hit"
Click to expand...

See, they should have shot him in the head repeatedly, then there would be no question.
 
Yea, made me wonder...did he run real fast or were they poor shots? I bet the would be robbers pants were in a need of a cleaning, though.
 
Too many variables, can't say what I'd do. You could have easy access to the BG or he could be behind a big display case. He could be pointing the gun at the clerk or hiding it under a coat.
 
I think the hypothetical has you in line behind him...........
Click to expand...

Says there was a couple of people in front of me. Now if it's a line like the post office, there would be alot of crap in the way. Another bank is the same way.
 
Jacob, . . .

Many are the forces that guide my life, . . . one being the Biblical admonition that "to whom much is given, much shall be required". I have been given the ability to decipher right from wrong, I have a 1911, I have a CCW, I am perhaps the clerk's only hope, period. That said -

IF: I see the gun, . . . and
I see real terror, fear, etc on the clerk, . . . and
I get a sense that this dirtbag will shoot at any provocation.

I have 8 each, 230 grain, FMJ, .45 ACP rounds that say the bad guy made a bad decision that is going to get worse for him, . . . just as soon as I unholster.

I will keep 25 to 30 feet between us if I can because I know my ability to hit him center mass at that distance, . . . and most perps I have known about are lucky to be able to tell muzzle from magazine. I will take the first shot, and if he happens to be looking the other way, . . . so be it.

Please understand I am not making light of this, . . . just a reality check. He will be in the sights as long as he does not telegraph an intention to harm the clerk. The instant I get the "harm" message, I will pull the trigger and I will not look back. That decision will have been made well, it will stand up.

He made the decision to rob, he made the decision to terrorize, he made the decision to make it apparent to me that he is just a trigger pull away from being a murderer. He will have to live with his decisions, . . .

On the other hand, if the gun stays pointed at the ceiling, . . . he can wish me a Happy New Year as he walks out, . . . and I will only be a good witness.

May God bless,
Dwight
 
Slinking away and "being a good witness" when you have the ability, the means, and the training to put an immediate end to an imminent deadly threat against the life of another means that you are shirking your solemn duty as a citizen of our society.
Click to expand...

Solemn duty to society? What? To protect those folks who haven't taken the time or had the inclination to learn to protect themselves? I don't think so. I help save some poor schmuck behind the counter and I get sued by the family of the deceased, not the schmuck behind the counter. Why is it my duty to risk my life and livelihood for some guy who has bothered to take care of himself?

I haven't purchased guns, gotten training, and practiced so that I can go play super hero.
 
You can only meet force with force

In a purfect world you would pull your gun and shoot him in the head, dead (the bad guy). But can you be sure you will kill the bad guy, will his reflexes cause his hand to tighten and the the poor man behind the counter is dead. He has a wife and 3 children at home, are you able to explane to them why there dady is dead.
A gun is a terrable responsibility, It can save a life by taking another, but it can also turn a simple robbery into a mass killing.
Your question is a good one with many answers. But the person that says "I'm going to pull my gunout and pop him in the head" is a person that probably souldnt be carring a gun.
What I would do is just stand there, and let things run there corse.
But if the bad guy started pulling the trigger, I would do everything in my power to see that no one got killed and then live with the results.
I have only pulled a gun on one person in my life, he had stollen my neighbors car. I caught him that night at a gas station and held him at gun point untill the poliece arived.
My neighbors son asked "Would you have shot him if he had took off running?"
My answer dissipointed him, " He was younger than me and in a lot better shape, I would have waved goodby."
 
hypothetical

I assume I have a permit for the pistol. In the hypothetical am I an off duty law enforcement officer?.

Robber is likely to have people on watch and with get away vehicle- shooting robber may cause a fire fight and injure friendlies.

I agree with the comment about demeanor- if robber remains calm and your life or the life of the bank teller is not in danger you cannot legally shoot.

If you take action you become responsible for the consequences. Morally I would like to take out the bad dude, but law and morality haave very little to do with one another.


Get ready for the risk of escalation- if they do I agree with the centre of mass comment and be ready for multiple targets as anylook outs- who may not be readily apparent- become animated.
 
Double Naught Spy wrote:

Solemn duty to society? What? To protect those folks who haven't taken the time or had the inclination to learn to protect themselves? I don't think so. I help save some poor schmuck behind the counter and I get sued by the family of the deceased, not the schmuck behind the counter. Why is it my duty to risk my life and livelihood for some guy who has bothered to take care of himself?

I haven't purchased guns, gotten training, and practiced so that I can go play super hero.
Click to expand...

I know this isn't going to change your mind, because people always think they are right, but it has to be said. Its this very 'out for me, screw everyone else' mentality that has made this society the cesspool that it is today. There are very few decent men that are willing to stand up for others as well as themselves. These are the very principles this country was founded on! No one has any respect, or a sense of morality, or ethics anymore. Its ME, ME, ME. People are selfish, self-serving, self-centered, and self-absorbed. Its like the doctor who lets the 85 year old man die, that he thinks in reality he could probably save, but the patients age and health give a good chance of death on the table, so the doctor does nothing...man
dies....he can't be sued......oh well.....he was 85 anyway.....

Anyone who can rationalize this type of thinking, maybe doesn't deserve to live in this country whos founding fathers believed exactly the opposite.....
 
Sorry if I get a little heated over issues like these. It just makes me sick when I think about the degrading attitude in america today.....
 
I agree with the comment about demeanor- if robber remains calm and your life or the life of the bank teller is not in danger you cannot legally shoot.
Click to expand...

If he has a gun out, the life of everyone who's not inside the bank vault is in danger. If he points it at someone, that person is a split-second away from suffering death or serious bodily injury.

The hypothetical wasn't about a typical robbery where a guy in sunglasses and a baseball cap slips a note to a teller who then slips him some money, remember.
 
clarification of scenario

Clarification: you are not in a check-out queue immediately next to the gun-pointing man. You are perhaps 10 to 20 feet away, maybe in the food aisles unnoticed by the BG who is near the register. Or perhaps you have come in after it was underway, and the door does not make noise. By no non-belligerents behind him, that means no bystanders in line with your potential shot. You have a clear shot. You are not wearing noisy kydex, either. Let us assume that you have done what every CCW holder should do, which is studying the state law relevant to use of force, and you have trained regularly with your firearm.
 
Slinking away and "being a good witness" when you have the ability, the means, and the training to put an immediate end to an imminent deadly threat against the life of another means that you are shirking your solemn duty as a citizen of our society.
Click to expand...

Solemn duty to WHAT society? If you are talking NYC, it's not even a society, its a zoo with criminal management and not enough keepers. If you are talking NY, NJ, parts of CA, perhaps MA and many other States whose attitides and practices I'm not aware of, you are talking about a society which DOES NOT WANT YOUR HELP. They think they know how to handle it, and you would be well advised to keep your nose out of it. Certain individuals might want your help now that they are in the situation (and many would not, and many more would sue your buttocks off if it didn't turn out just right), but they didn't want it bad enough to carry guns themselves, or to situate themselves in States that have a slightly more traditional American attitude. As for them, I say **** 'em. And the "society" they rode in on.

As for the dwindling number of States that are not risking the fate of Sodom and Gomorrah, if I were located there, I would certainly do my duty, which is to definitively incapacitate without warning any armed robber holding a gun, IFF it were clear that I could do so safely. That's a big iff, and sometimes beyond being evaluated by someone close enough to terminate the activities of the BG who is showing. Did I mention backup in my first post? Think about it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top