Huckabee Wants Free College for Illegal's Kids

The kids falsified their idenity or their parents did? Trying to compare this to statutory rape is like comparing apples to oranges. I still have yet to see any proof or better yet a statue cited that explains what kind of illegal behavior these kids are guilty of. They were not here of their own willingness but were forced here by their parents. I am not sure what our governments position is on this issue to be honest about it. Yes the kids are considered illegals but they are not guilty of crossing our border illegally. I still question the legality of their status in this country. I think they are more likely in limbo than anything else.

We give legal status to kids of illegals if they happen to be born here. Is that fair since their parents at the time commited a crime and crossed our borders illegally? Or would some of you say that since the parents are illegal that the kids born in the US should be illegals and not receive citizenship? The kids in both cases are unwilling participates, yet one gets legal status while the other gets illegal status even after attending our schools for most of their childhood.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree since no one has been able to cite or provide a statue that shows these kids are guilty of illegal activity or any kind of illegal behavior. Their parents certainly are, but again the kids I am sure have commited no crime. Its easy to paint this issue as black and white but it is way more complicated than it appears. I applaud Huckabee for trying to find a solution to a complex problem. There are no easy answers for this issue except to make the federal government (INS) do a better job and to get our freaking borders secured.
 
Give upon them many schools and chapels in the land of Mexico and thus they will not flee to our realm. Are the Jesuits no longer harkening psalms for their studies?

Bah! The land has sunken into depravity and the priests remain still. Are their sword-arms stricken with pox?
 
There are no easy answers for this issue except to make the federal government (INS) do a better job and to get our freaking borders secured.
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Pretty much. I still say stricter enforcement against employers is the way to go...remove the demand, the supply with wither. Obviously border control is an issue as well (for other reasons as well), but I think securing the borders would be easier without the never ending stream of people crossing them for work.

Of course, I also believe in an increase in quotas for citizenship or even just work visas...I know many here disagree. But the two certainly aren't mutually exclusive.
 
Pretty much. I still say stricter enforcement against employers is the way to go...remove the demand, the supply with wither. Obviously border control is an issue as well (for other reasons as well), but I think securing the borders would be easier without the never ending stream of people crossing them for work.
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JC,

We actually agree on something. But I would expand enforcement to anyone who enables them (employers, relatives, supportive businesses, etc).
Of course, I also believe in an increase in quotas for citizenship or even just work visas.
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I'd support this too as long as it's not by means of blanket amnesty AFTER the border and the demand issues are worked. If people don't like the laws, try to change them; not just ignore them. I would rather have more people here legally if it will curtail the numbers of illegals.
 
The kids falsified their idenity or their parents did? Trying to compare this to statutory rape is like comparing apples to oranges.
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It wasn't a comparison. It was an attempt to show you that your argument is wrong.


I still have yet to see any proof or better yet a statue cited that explains what kind of illegal behavior these kids are guilty of. They were not here of their own willingness but were forced here by their parents. I am not sure what our governments position is on this issue to be honest about it. Yes the kids are considered illegals but they are not guilty of crossing our border illegally. I still question the legality of their status in this country. I think they are more likely in limbo than anything else.
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Alright. If we have to do this the hard way.

Sec. 275. [8 U.S.C. 1325]

(a) Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, United States Code, or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or b oth, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, United States Code, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

So there you go. The kids broke the law. Its irrelevant that they are kids and its irrelevant that they had no choice in the matter. They are aliens and they crossed at a time and place not designated by immigration officers.


We give legal status to kids of illegals if they happen to be born here. Is that fair since their parents at the time commited a crime and crossed our borders illegally? Or would some of you say that since the parents are illegal that the kids born in the US should be illegals and not receive citizenship? The kids in both cases are unwilling participates, yet one gets legal status while the other gets illegal status even after attending our schools for most of their childhood.
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Fair has nothing to do with it. The constitution mandates that people born here are citizens.


I guess we will have to agree to disagree since no one has been able to cite or provide a statue that shows these kids are guilty of illegal activity or any kind of illegal behavior. Their parents certainly are, but again the kids I am sure have commited no crime.
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See above.


Its easy to paint this issue as black and white but it is way more complicated than it appears. I applaud Huckabee for trying to find a solution to a complex problem. There are no easy answers for this issue except to make the federal government (INS) do a better job and to get our freaking borders secured.
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Sorry, this issue is black and white and it has nothing to do about immigration. You don't enact programs or pass laws that directly conflict with one another. It delegitimizes the government and allows elected officials to ignore their jobs by sidestepping issues that they would have to otherwise deal with.
 
I tend to disagree. Someone who is forced to do something is usually not guilty of said crime. Once again you have failed to prove that the kids did anything wrong, they were FORCED and as such are not guilty of crossing the border illegally. I contend that a good lawyer could make a case that the kids did nothing wrong based on the fact that they were FORCED and basically had no choice in the decision.

I still argue that kids are a gray area and are completely different animal than willing adults.
 
(a) Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, United States Code, or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or b oth, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, United States Code, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

So there you go. The kids broke the law. Its irrelevant that they are kids and its irrelevant that they had no choice in the matter. They are aliens and they crossed at a time and place not designated by immigration officers.
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So, according to your strict interpretation of law, if non-US-citizen "A" is abducted in Mexico, stuffed in a crate and taken to work on a slave farm in Nebraska, even if they immediately escape and report everything to the authorities they are still held against this law? Obviously they would be in technical violation, but your stance is that they should be punished for such violation?

Guess we should be happy that judges are the arbiters of law and not prosecutors or police. Justice is not blind, justice takes situations/context into effect.
 
I tend to disagree. Someone who is forced to do something is usually not guilty of said crime. Once again you have failed to prove that the kids did anything wrong, they were FORCED and as such are not guilty of crossing the border illegally. I contend that a good lawyer could make a case that the kids did nothing wrong based on the fact that they were FORCED and basically had no choice in the decision.
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Well if xnavy wrote the law, you'd be correct. The problem is that the law doesn't support your interpretation.

The mitigating circumstances that you are talking about like duress or necessity don't apply here. Thats why I brought up the example of a strict liability crime. No matter how much you'd like it to doesn't change the fact that these kids have broken the law and are illegally in the country.

They and their families should be deported period.


I still argue that kids are a gray area and are completely different animal than willing adults
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Even if you were technically right, practically speaking you aren't. Since its beyond all doubt that the parents broke the law and should be deported, the question is what should be done with the kids. Well since they aren't US citizens they don't get to stay either. Does it bother anyone else that we can find these people to give their kids scholarships but not to enforce the law?

Secondly, by giving the kids a scholarship, you are conferring a benefit upon the parents because they are the one's who would otherwise have to pay for the education. So in reality, even if the kids are some special gray area, you are still giving a benefit to people who broke the law.


So, according to your strict interpretation of law, if non-US-citizen "A" is abducted in Mexico, stuffed in a crate and taken to work on a slave farm in Nebraska, even if they immediately escape and report everything to the authorities they are still held against this law? Obviously they would be in technical violation, but your stance is that they should be punished for such violation?
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If the guy stuffed in a crate decided to stay like these kids have then yes they should be punished. Of course your example is completely nonsensical and isn't whats happening here.


Guess we should be happy that judges are the arbiters of law and not prosecutors or police. Justice is not blind, justice takes situations/context into effect.
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The judges are arbiters of the law and families and children are declared here illegally and get deported every day. The beautiful thing about enforcing what the law actually says is that bad laws get repealed or changed and good laws are easy to follow. When we start getting into the "this is what it says, but we're going to do this instead" is when thins start to go round and round the bowl.
 
It's not like kids born in Arkansas are really doing much to earn their citizenship, and for that matter neither did most of their parents.
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No, but we try to leave for future generations a country you would want to live in. To "secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity." Not everyone's posterity, because we recognize that we can't do that for the world.
 
I agree that parents and there kids who are caught should be deported together if they are caught crossing he border, that is a no brainer.

Huckabee was talking about a specific situation that does exist in our country specifically Arkansas that he was trying to address. The OP makes it sound like this was something that was going to be given to every illegal child and that is just not true.

The law is clear and I understand that, but at the time the law was written I don't think they ever envisioned the kind of scenario that Huckabee is trying to deal with. If this country was enforcing the law then the issue of some illegal kids getting scholarships wouldn't even be an issue. The fact is the law is not being enforced hence leading to illegal kids getting into the public school system and spending 10 or 12 years in it and getting a high school diploma.

This is a situation that we shouldn't even be talking about if our borders were secure, but the fact remains it is happening and something needs to be done about it. Huckabee presented a solution for children who wanted to continue their education, were outstanding students, and were going to apply for legal status.

In all fairness I think our stance on illegal immigration is probably the same, I just have a different opinion about when childred who had no choice are involved. Its really the only exception I make. The solution to all this would be to secure our borders, but since the government fails to do so, then we are faced with some special problems. I have said my peace, its just my opinion. In reality its probably not even worth .02.
 
Or your analogies apparently.
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Well, I figured you could come up all on your own with the obvious (and mundane, and common) situation of an infant that is brought across, and has no idea growing up that they are illegal.

Back to your old "The law is the law, black and white; if you don't like a law, change it by voting someone else in to change it; in the meantime I will stifle any discussion on the topic, because it currently IS the law and I won't stand for anyone saying a law is bad or should be applied/interpreted differently" weirdness.
 
No, but we try to leave for future generations a country you would want to live in. To "secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity." Not everyone's posterity, because we recognize that we can't do that for the world.
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Except that an illegal alien brought here as a child who meets the kind of standards I put forward earlier (go back and read them, I'll not bother repeating them) will probably contribute to that more so than the average natural citizen. Again, we're not talking about handing scholarships to every kid that is smuggled across the border by their parents.

Well, I figured you could come up all on your own with the obvious (and mundane, and common) situation of an infant that is brought across, and has no idea growing up that they are illegal.
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Especially since for a majority of those years they don't exactly have the means to go back to Mexico (or wherever) and take care of themselves. And ratting out their parents? Yeah, that's a great idea. Or are we making the assumption that the parents would never respond drastically, even violently?

Sure, they're also making the choice to stay at the age of 17/18 or so. But then again, that's the point of this program: single out kids in this situation who (in theory) stand a good chance of being productive citizens (more so than many natives), and hopefully are invested in this country, and then give them the opportunity to stay legally. The parents? I see nothing here suggesting they couldn't be deported.

But are you Spanish or just a fan of the king?
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Neither. Not even sure what king you're talking about. It's really just a screen name. Actually, there's an inside joke behind it, but it's long and unlikely to be funny or even make sense if you weren't part of my group of friends in high school.
 
Back to your old "The law is the law, black and white; if you don't like a law, change it by voting someone else in to change it; in the meantime I will stifle any discussion on the topic, because it currently IS the law and I won't stand for anyone saying a law is bad or should be applied/interpreted differently" weirdness.
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No one is stifling any discussion. I'm just not letting people rewrite laws to fashion their views. You can talk till you're blue in the face but don't pretend that its going to change the meaning of the words on the page.

You can argue about whether the law is good or bad and thats fine. However until its changed or repealed its the law and shouldnt be sidestepped by people with "good intentions".
 
I'm just not letting people rewrite laws to fashion their views.
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BWAAAAHAHAHA:D
That's a good one, considering the source. But to be fair you're correct on this point.
(a) Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers...
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No loopholes for age or free will.

Here's the facts: Minors who have been brought into this country (even against their will) are still illegal aliens.
Mike Huckabee rewarded them with scholarship money specifically for being illegal aliens. Shoot, they even get to sign citizenship applications and stay in the country ahead of those who have patiently (and legally) waited their turn.
You can argue until you're blue in the face why this is a good or bad thing, but you're still conceding that he did it. This flies in the face of anything he might try to argue about being "tough" on illegal immigration.
 
Mike Huckabee rewarded them with scholarship money specifically for being illegal aliens.
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Okay, I'm going to have to ask for a source on this. Everything I've seen suggests that these scholarships are not reserved for illegal aliens, but rather that the existing state scholarships simply will not be withheld from them.

So, unless you have a source showing that these scholarships are "specifically for" illegal aliens, I'd ask you to stop repeating this misinformation.
 
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