2cooltoolz
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Huckabee Wants Free College for Illegal's Kids
- Thread starter defjon
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JuanCarlos
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If you're talking about "amnesty" as it's commonly referred to, extremely limited scope. We're not talking about letting every guy who has worked on a landscaping detail over the last 10 years have a shot at citizenship; we're talking about a pretty limited subset of illegal aliens here.
I don't know that anybody "deserves" to have taxpayer money given to them. At least not in the form of scholarships/grants. But funding/subsidizing higher education, as already discussed, benefits the state in both intangible and tangible (by increasing future tax revenues) ways. Provided the recipient actually legalizes their status upon graduating, their status prior to starting school has little impact.
Seeing the actual provisions of the law as quoted here, though, I have some issues with it anyway. I think three years is a really short time for a student to have been here and be extended residency under these circumstances (yes, I know a majority here wouldn't care if they'd been here for 12...but my point is that as the token liberal even I think that's pretty short). Mainly because in-state tuition represents a pretty big expenditure by the state government, but aside from actual admittance into the school (which will exclude some) there really aren't much in the way of requirements there. I mean, you'd think you'd at least want them to have done a full four years of high school here, no matter how liberal you lean.
The way the scholarship portion is worded seems pretty reasonable...basically the scholarships simply won't look at the status at all, and instead students compete on academic/financial merit alone. Hopefully more academic than financial, but I don't know how AK's scholarships work. Personally I'd almost say that if your kids can't compete academically with an illegal alien who came here as little as three years ago, it's possible that maybe the illegal alien does deserve the scholarship more.
The other glaring issue that even the more liberal-leaning folks should be able to spot is this whole "intent to legalize status" wording. As gc70 pointed out, "intent" doesn't mean a whole lot there, especially since I'm thinking the state of Arkansas can't exactly do much to help them on this front. I mean, I intend to become a rock star, make millions, and hook up with supermodels. Doesn't mean it's going to happen. And if the student in question doesn't wind up achieving a legal status then yeah, pretty much every dime spent on in-state tuition and scholarships was flushed down the toilet (since they'll no longer be contributing to our economy).
In short, while I think there's a lot more to this issue than "rar! ILLEGAL!!" looking at the actual provisions proposed I'm thinking they're a bit permissive for my tastes. And by "a bit" I actually mean "incredibly."
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Amazing. You mean you would give an illegal alien (ie, a criminal) with a 4.0 a scholarship over a legal resident with slightly less good grades? How is that possibly fair to the people in the country legally (ie, citizens and legal alien residents)?
I appreciate your honesty on the issue. I am distraught that people in our nation have sunk to the point that they would give opportunity to criminals from foreign countries, rather than to honest hard working people who are legal residents.
JuanCarlos
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.
My guess is that, as he has explained many times, he's assigning a much lower degree of blame to the criminal in this case...seeing as they had little choice in the matter.
Though again, if we're talking about people who have spent as little as three years in the school system, we're talking about kids brought at like 15 or 16. Which changes things at least a little bit in my mind.
Unregistered
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Selective enforcement of the law is not an excuse. However, I would not advocate putting anyone in jail for being an illegal alien. That just wastes more taxpayer money. All I would do is send them back across the border.
The idea of letting illegal aliens qualify for scholarships is an idea that should have been proposed by someone like Governor Spitzer of New York, not a supposedly conservative Republican. It is a disgraceful selling out of our nation.
The idea of letting illegal aliens qualify for scholarships is an idea that should have been proposed by someone like Governor Spitzer of New York, not a supposedly conservative Republican. It is a disgraceful selling out of our nation.
JuanCarlos
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These scholarships are paid for with state funds. Illegal aliens do generally pay, at the least, sales tax and (directly or indirectly) property tax. Probably a few others as well.
So I guess that means they're safe from your list.
I'm willing to bet that the funds are from property taxes, and a large portion of illegals don't pay property taxes either because they don't rent, or they live 20 to an apartment.
Either way the odds are that they haven't paid into the system, or haven't paid the same amounts as citizens have.
JuanCarlos
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I hope you're not putting me under that umbrella.
Except that these scholarships don't take into account amount of taxes paid when deciding among citizens. In fact, it's entirely possible that there could exist a pair of children, one a citizen and one an illegal alien, where the latter's parents have actually paid more in taxes than the former. Extreme poverty (of the 20-to-a-house variety) isn't limited to illegal aliens, and the extremely poor don't necessarily have to work too hard to avoid paying much in taxes (and there do exist illegal aliens who are not particularly poor).
At that point, by this argument, would this hypothetical illegal alien child be more deserving of the scholarship than the citizen (assuming the same or better academic performance, of course)?
Your argument works much better when you just stick with "law's the law" and accept that some may not agree with you.
Focusing back on Huckabee's positions... Huckabee says no amnesty, no jobs, and not even driver's licenses.
It seems a bit ridiculous to use taxpayer funds to create the world's most-educated gardeners, housekeepers, construction workers, and farm laborers.
What are the illegal alien young people with college degrees going to do? Based on Huchabee's positions, they will not be able to get any professional job that requires licensing or bonding, nor will not be able to work for the government or get any job that requires a security clearance.
It seems a bit ridiculous to use taxpayer funds to create the world's most-educated gardeners, housekeepers, construction workers, and farm laborers.
What are the illegal alien young people with college degrees going to do? Based on Huchabee's positions, they will not be able to get any professional job that requires licensing or bonding, nor will not be able to work for the government or get any job that requires a security clearance.
JuanCarlos
New member
Yeah, when you look at the combination it's pretty nonsensical. As already well covered, a affidavit stating "intent" to pursue legal status isn't legal status, nor does it lead to legal status. And the state of Arkansas can't (to my knowledge) do much to grant these kids legal status if they graduate. Which does make the whole program quite a waste. As you said, we're likely either training well-educated menial laborers or sending them with their (taxpayer funded) degrees back to their country of origin.
It does make me wonder what the point is.
I still like the hypothetical idea of giving a subset of these kids a real shot at citizenship, for reasons covered earlier. But the plan as proposed, in the context of immigration law as it stands now? Yeah, when you put it together it's pretty ridiculous.
Poor and illegal are two separate things. Poor citizens pay taxes. By in large illegals dont.
My argument isn't saying that the people deserving of the scholarship are the ones who paid most into the system. My argument is that in addition to the law, illegals shouldnt be elligible for this because its very likely that they haven't contributed any money to the system, certianly not their fair share.
Of course this is part of the larger argument that illegals shouldn't be allowed to have their children go to school in the first place. This idea that its going to "better" society is hogwash. At least half of the money made by illegals is sent back to their home countries, and there is nothing to suggest that giving them better jobs will change this, or even keep them here.
We have no obligation to educate these children. We already have a dismal education system that needs fixing without having to worry about accomodating illegal children who have zero education and don't speak english.
I believe that priority #1 is securing the borders and preventing illegal immigration.
Priority #2 is dealing with the immigrants here, which is why I support fines on businesses hiring illegal immigrants. It makes is impossible for a law abiding entrepreneur to compete with such practices.
However, I get soft on kids who ended up here because of their parents. I'm not opposed to deportation in almost any instance, but I'm also alright with paying for education with need and merit based scholarships and loans.
I'm in graduate school right now, and it's expensive, but there is no shortage of funds for loans or scholarships. Until there is a shortage, I'd rather see kids getting educated so they don't become criminals (clearly meant to be read as aside from their illegal immigration status leaving them subject to deportation). Educating kids and allowing them to apply for citizenship because they were brought here is better than putting them in a situation of poor economic prospects which may begin a path of violent crime.
Priority #2 is dealing with the immigrants here, which is why I support fines on businesses hiring illegal immigrants. It makes is impossible for a law abiding entrepreneur to compete with such practices.
However, I get soft on kids who ended up here because of their parents. I'm not opposed to deportation in almost any instance, but I'm also alright with paying for education with need and merit based scholarships and loans.
I'm in graduate school right now, and it's expensive, but there is no shortage of funds for loans or scholarships. Until there is a shortage, I'd rather see kids getting educated so they don't become criminals (clearly meant to be read as aside from their illegal immigration status leaving them subject to deportation). Educating kids and allowing them to apply for citizenship because they were brought here is better than putting them in a situation of poor economic prospects which may begin a path of violent crime.
Minutemen Endorse Huckabee
Mike Huckabee picked up an endorsement from Jim Gilchrist, the founder of the Minutemen Project. Well ... so much for that "soft on illegal immigration" bit.
Mike Huckabee picked up an endorsement from Jim Gilchrist, the founder of the Minutemen Project. Well ... so much for that "soft on illegal immigration" bit.
Yes, it is good to have an overall view. I have followed this thread from the beginning, and I myself have not liked Huckabee's stand on college tuition, but it is important to understand that organizations like the minutemen only have two republican candidates they don't agree with. Both McCain and Guiliani are on the NO list of the minutemen for not supporting strong border security & illegals not getting jobs.
The bottom line, Huckabee is a whole lot tougher on the illegal issue than Hillary/Obama, and that's what really matters.
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