How good a shot is "pretty good"?

[Hal]

An easy test, take a crappy, gritty, heavy trigger (on any pistol) and shoot for group at twenty five yards, one hand.

Same test, but with a perfect 3lb, crisp release, crude test, but you get the message?

You're talking about mechanical defects, not technique.

Try your little test with the sights screwed on loose so they rattle around and see what happens.

We of course could go back and forth all day long exchanging mechanical defects - but - the simple answer to that is, if it's a defect - have a smith correct it or get rid of the gun.

 

[Sarge]

It doesn't make any difference which fundamental of marksmanship you poorly execute. Until you get them all down at least reasonably well, you are never going to get really good.

The better you master each one--and burn them in until they come without effort--the better you will compensate for negative influences, like labored breathing. This becomes apparent during 'exertion courses' where the top shooters drop from Expert to just qualifying; but even with that handicap, they are still 'pretty good' anyway.

 

[3.Shot.Group.]

@#76 and #78

For me, trigger control was not the main issue, but finding the right grip, which affects where the trigger contacts my finger, took some time and was the culprit.

Even now if I vary my grip it'll show up on the target as a line of shots fading left. Not by a lot, but still not as precise as they would be if I was holding just the right grip. Without that grip, good trigger control just doesn't happen for me. I've spent a lot of time trying to figure out what was throwing my shots off, then one day I found the right grip, and everything just came together.

Sight alignment has always been the easiest part of the equation for me, never really had to do much work there, even though I suspected it at first it never seemed to help no matter how much I worked on it, the same goes for trigger control by it's self.

I tried different finger positions on the trigger, held the finger on there the way everyone says you're supposed to, but most of the time it threw off my grip and my shots flew wild still. Never suspected it was my grip that I needed to work on first, but in the end that was what it was. With the right grip my finger rests correctly on the trigger, but I don't get the right grip if I first focus on the correct finger position on the trigger, so I have to grip the gun in such a way that my finger is properly positioned, along with a couple of other things, then I hit where I'm aiming, well 85 to 90% of the time.

 

[PzGren]

Competitive shooters don't really look at group size. The score counts. I have shot ISSF pistol competitions at state level and found that shooters that can hold an 80% or above score under match conditions are the mass of participants.
To be among the better shooters 90%+ is required. The shooters that reach an average of 90% or better are usually found at all matches, they live for the competition.

To be an all around good handgun shot, someone has to be able to pick up any good service-sized handgun and place 10 shots on a standard 9 " paper plate at 25 yards, slow fire and clear the falling plate rack at 12 yards in under 5 seconds. The 20 yard distance is what keeps many IDPA/IPSC shooters from getting master level. 20 yards make the master, remember the famous quote?

If you want to extend this to centerfire rifle, with iron sights at 100 yards, same 9" paper plate peppered with ten shots, standing, kneeling, and prone.

 

[JohnKSa]

Competitive shooters don't really look at group size.

This competitive shooter does. I can always adjust the sights if the group isn't where it belongs, but there's no group-size adjustment on the gun.

 

[Frank Ettin]

I'm with John. Group size might not be determinative in competition, but it's important in practice -- both to verify the regulation of my sights and to confirm my consistent execution of basic skills.

 

[Brit]

Well gent's, I was not looking for an argument, just expressing an opinion.

I shot Bullseye for 40 years, age caused a little drop in my standings, after 45 YOA, I shot a few possible's, .32 S&W cartridge, at 20yds, most of the ten shots touching, in or touching the ten ring.

The trigger was an exact 3lbs, no creep, no over travel, just imagine a glass rod breaking. Walther OSP frame, and .22short/.22LR/ and .32 S&W caliber, top ends. Five shot magazines. Mind you I shot 500 rounds of .22LR a week, my own reloads in the .32.

A lead swaged wad cutter, 90g weight, 1.4g of 700X. I think the projectiles were Lapua? The technique of this sport? A good two pages, I am sure this group is not interested in, sorry, used to be my passion.

Now CCWL and Glock 19!

 

[darkgael]

Grip

Maybe you become "pretty good" when you get to the point that trigger control and sight alignment are not that hard, but understand that grip has a bigger affect on your speed and accuracy that most instructors realize, so you work on it.

Agree with that.
One of the undiscussed and unnoticed details of grip is the effect of sympathetic movement of the other fingers of the hand as the trigger is squeezed.
Extend your arm as if you were going to shoot.....relax your hand and then move your trigger finger.....notice the movement of the fingers below the TF. That movement must be immobilized - it does not take much of it to move your sights off.
Pete