How good a shot is "pretty good"?

The best advice I have for anyone who is genuinely interested in becoming a good shot:

1. Push yourself to excellence.

2. Learn each of the Basics of Marksmanship and perfect them individually.

3. Each must be perfected because eventually, each step will become an automatic response.

4. When practicing, fire each round with a concerted effort at making it go exactly where it should.

5. Learn new disciplines but never forsake marksmanship.
 
This is a good question/topic for discussion...

Most of my shooting has always been focused on up close and fast as most of my handguns over the years have been defense / combat type. It was not until I got my Ruger 22/45 that I really started to focus on accuracy, slow fire, etc. It just was not something I was interested in until I really got into .22's. Now, almost 10 years later, its all I want to shoot.
 
Do you shoot by yourself? Have you ever taken a real class, or would you see that expenditure of several hundred dollars (a couple of weeks ammo) for real instruction as just wasted money?
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I've never taken a class on shooting besides my hunter safety course, but I did have instruction on marksmanship when I was working for a military security contractor which I think would be similar. My instructor didn't know what the problem was, but I was good enough to easily qualify so I never went too much into it at the time. I would go take a class if it really would help tho.

I do shoot more then the Hi Power, I shoot my carry gun once a month, a Kahr K9, a Ruger Redhawk revolver in 44 mag, Sig P220 (which I don't like at all so I shoot it rarely), and a Glock 19 sometimes. I know its pretty much impossible to diagnose the issue through the internet, that's why I was just wondering how I compared with others.
 
Elerius said:
It would seem that I'm naturally worse at shooting than most other people, I guess.
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Nonsense. Your bar was low because you were comparing yourself to guys "who shoot a few times a year when not qualifying". What you're actually capable of is a higher bar. Getting some good instruction will help tremendously.


Elerius said:
I can't seem to get good groups even when I follow the firing fundamentals.
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The target doesn't lie. It's a recording device that records how well you're applying the fundamentals. The funny thing about the fundamentals is that the Devil's in the details. We often think we're applying the fundamentals when we're not, but the target tells the tale. It's not uncommon for even experienced shooters to be surprised when they see an errant shot, and they'll swear under oath the sights were perfectly aligned when the shot broke. Clearly they weren't, though. You need to see what you need to see.

I mentioned the target's a recording device, but I should emphasize it's merely a recording device. Your attention should be on the process of executing a good shot, not on the goal of making a good shot. IOW, forget about the target. Don't even peek at it between shots. Execute the process properly and the goal takes care itself.


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Elerius said:
I would go take a class if it really would help tho.
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I'd look for some 1-on-1 with a good teacher. Ask around. Doesn't necessarily have to be someone with official credentials, either. Maybe go to some local IDPA/USPSA or bullseye matches and ask around who they'd recommend. There are some good shooters in your area. The current IDPA Stock Service Revolver World Champ lives in your area, for example (though he currently shoots a 1911 in competition).
 
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Have to agree with Hal ...

For me, if I hit the groups you say you are hitting, and you're happy with it, I'd be happy with it. I don't need to be able to cover all my shots with a quarter. I just like to hit what I'm shooting at.
 
All shots 8" paper plate at 20 yards...

Being able to put 10 .22 shots in 1" with a good target 22...

Not missing the 10pt buck at 225yards, downhill, with a 20mph crosswind...

Beating your buddies at the trap...

Being able to land your golf ball within 3 yards on the par 3's:D...

It's all subjective...
 
Elerius said:
...Ive been shooting about 300 rounds a week since the end of August and it bothers me that I can't seem to get good groups even when I follow the firing fundamentals...
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Your results, given that amount of shooting, seem to indicate one or more flaws in the execution of the fundamentals. And the dispersal of your shots suggests some lack of consistency in execution.

A good instructor should be able to help.
 
+1 on maybe needing a good instructor.
Spend a little bit on a good lesson to check how well you follow the fundamentals. It may be cheaper in the long run than burning ammo and not being satisfied with results.
 
All problems, are trigger, always!

If a carry pistol is carried, just one is my recommendation, not musical guns, a different one, every day.

When you trigger a massive shot of adrenalin, into your body/mind, simple is better.

For instance, in my case, a Glock 19. Draw, punch gun forward, trigger depressed, so when forward movement stops, Pistol goes off! Weather it be a one handed point shooting. Or two handed eye level sighted fire. Or places in between. Same gun, same holster, same place on body.

All problems, are trigger, always!

A bull's-eye shooter puts a continues pressure on the trigger, gradually increasing, till the gun fires.

In a fight for your life, exactly the same, but the pressure curve happens sooner, but still not jerked, the same steady pressure, but compressed sooner.
Front to back, not pressed to one side, or the other, straight back.
 
I would say a pretty good shot can shoot 5 shots into 3" at 25Y consistently off hand (two hand hold). Combat type shooting is not 'my' bag and has different skills which 'I' could care less about. We all have different goals and where we want to be and if you are like me, I probably will never get there as good is never good enough. The better you get, the better you want to be, and then age starts to catch up (reflexes, eyes, etc.) and down hill from there.... Anyway, hitting the target consistently (5 of 6, rather than 1 of 6) whether a tin can, a glint of a spent shell on the ground, that gopher (or paint can, etc.) out there in the distance .... That is good shooting to me and my goal (whether 5 feet away or 300 Yards away) with a six-shooter off hand. As a lefty, I am starting to practice shooting with the right hand now for fun one handed.... Almost like starting from scratch. I like shooting distance targets, because if I can hit them consistently, I can certainly hit 'closer in'.

Not LE or Military, so my 'expectations' are a lot different. Like an expert hunter who might be considered a good shoot to down the running deer at 200Y (which I couldn't do) .... Each person has there own 'expectation' of what a good shot is. Is he the man that always gets his 'deer' or 'elk'? Or what..... Mine is simply "hit what I aim at" .

Nuff said....
 
Some suggestions that should help right away:

1. Instruction




2. Lots of DA dry fire. I made a 3x5 card into a target card with smaller boxes lined off. The smallest is 1x1.5. 15 minutes per session, 2+ times/week.

3. Follow through. This is a common miss. When people are in the habit of checking for hit location, they often leave the sights as they anticipate the shot, and swear that they aren't doing this. As a result, their brain is saying, "sights were on target!" The easy fix is to make it a point to see the sights fall back on target every shot, so that you KNOW your sights were lined up at the break.

Trigger control + follow through cleans up a lot.
 
I disagree that it's just about group size unless you're shooting competitively. Rather it's about what you can actually hit.

On paper, I'm a pretty decent shot and can get respectable groups.

But when it comes to the practical part of hitting something with said gun, I can hit all kinds of things at 50 meters with a pistol all day long. Even at 100 meters or so with a 9mm, I can still fairly reliably hit a milk jug.

Most of my shooting is off the back porch at the ranch shooting everything from milk jugs, piece of wood to steel targets. I only shoot in paper to zero a gun. After that I'm just shooting to hit stuff.

I'd say the best way to learn to shoot better is on steel targets, where you can get immediate confirmation you're doing something right or wrong.

I find shooting on paper boring and it brings out my ADD where I'm suddenly....... oh look a squirrel......
 
Everyone must be a "pretty good " shot. Because I've never heard Anyone say or admit they were a bad shot!
Pretty good is a relative term. Hitting anywhere on the intended target I would say is pretty good depending on caliber, distance, size of target etc.
by the way... I'm a "pretty good" shot too
:)
 
I'd say if you can hit the COM of a mansized target at 7 yards from "threat ID" to firing in less than 2 seconds, you are a pretty good shot.

I'd also say if you can keep 6 rounds in the A zone at 15 yards in under 3 seconds from the beep, you are a pretty good shot.

I'd also say if you can hit a Ram at 100m 10 out of 10 times, you are a pretty good shot.

I'd also say if you can hit a Smartie at 10m with the first shot, you are a pretty good shot.

I'd also say if you can shoot a 3" group of 10 rounds at 25m, you are a pretty good shot.

If you can do all of those, you are an excellent shot.

While there is some good info herein, there are still elements missing in the discussion.

To become "proficient" should be the goal when the martial arts use of firearms is concerned. That means quantifiable skills that are benchmarked and improved upon. The better your proficiency, the wider the range of situations in which you can perform to a suitable level.

Being a good shot is not all about the trigger. In the most basic form, it is causing the firearm to fire at the point in which the barrel (or sights) are pointed at the precise point you want the bullet to strike. That involves trigger control, visual patience, physical control, grip strength, timing and other factors. Firing one shot with no time constraint is one aspect, firing multiple precise shots at speed is an entirely different skill.
 
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markco said:
Firing one shot with no time constraint is one aspect, firing multiple precise shots at speed is an entirely different skill.
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I've never met anyone who was good at firing multiple precise shots at speed who wasn't also good at firing a single precise shot with no time constraint.

Makes me tend to believe that there may be just a tiny bit of skill overlap involved. ;)
 
45_auto, I will assume you have met several who can fire a single precise shot with no time limit, but when you add speed, it all goes south. There were several of those on "Top Shot". ;)
 
MarkCO said:
Firing one shot with no time constraint is one aspect, firing multiple precise shots at speed is an entirely different skill.
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Technically true, but if you can't exercise good fundamentals when under no time constraints, you're surely not gonna be able to do it under stress and when time matters. The former is foundational, and one gradually builds on it to get to the latter. But one needs a solid foundation first.

At any rate, threads like this are generally about group size, not speed.
 
I've never met anyone who was good at firing multiple precise shots at speed who wasn't also good at firing a single precise shot with no time constraint.

Makes me tend to believe that there may be just a tiny bit of skill overlap involved.
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There always does seem to be "that guy" at the range trying to be Tom Cruise on Collateral, when they can barely hit the paper in slow-fire.
 
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