How can a simple hug cause a weapon to discharge?

[Double Naught Spy]

How can a simple hug cause a weapon to discharge?

Maybe a better question would be to know how it is that you determined this to be a simple hug when the article you cited did not call it such a hug and the hug described occurred while dancing which obviously would not indicate any sort of simplicity. Obfuscating the event with a query that introduces incorrect information isn't a way to arrive at a proper answer.

Absolutely impossible--there has to be more to it that what is being reported--otherwise our streets would be littered with accidentally shot people.

Um, no. Just because an event doesn't happen frequently does not mean it is impossible, improbable, but not impossible.

I can see that as a possibility for explaining how the gun went off. I'm still very skeptical about the idea that a gun in the IWB holster of a standing person could go off and injure the person standing next to him in the chest.

This seems to be the most sensible point of contention. Given that most adults are not amazingly different in height such that an IWB holster which should be carrying the with the muzzle pointed downward somewhere below being level, how did she end up shot in the heart. No ricochet is mentioned. No disparity of height is mentioned. From the initial read, it sounded like a shoulder holster incident, but that isn't the case.

I'm not saying it was an intentional shooting, but I would buy here grabbing at the gun from behind.

Along those lines, I am thinking that sense it is IWB, it probably isn't locked down by a thumb break or other retention device, became partially dislodged during the hug and discharged when pushed by into the holster, but this would still utterly fail to account for the shot to the chest.

 

[Luger_carbine]

The article is titled :

Hug Triggers Officer's Gun, Kills Woman

The article states

was fatally shot... when she hugged an off-duty police officer while dancing

When is a hug not simple? If someone is poking me with their fingers and grabbing things and groping me - it's not a hug anymore.

And are there IWB holsters that have the muzzle pointing both back and up?

 

[howlnmad]

I call BS on this one and it's just more anti-gun propaganda.

 

[9mm]

Bad holster(cops gun)causes gun to fire, kills woman.

Detroit woman killed when hug triggers officer's gun, police say

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/0...riggers-officer-gun-police-say/#ixzz208myPOVL

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/08/detroit-woman-killed-when-hug-triggers-officer-gun-police-say/

DETROIT – A woman celebrating the weekend before her 25th birthday was fatally shot Sunday when she hugged an off-duty police officer while dancing at a party, causing the officer's service weapon to fire, according to police and her mother.




Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/0...riggers-officer-gun-police-say/#ixzz208n2SMzB

According to Stephens, the woman "embraced the officer from behind, causing the holstered weapon to accidently discharge." The bullet punctured Miller's lung and hit her heart, and she died at a hospital.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/0...riggers-officer-gun-police-say/#ixzz208nFSekr

Cop going to face charges for crappy holster? wreckless carrying???

Carry a good holster... I'm thinking a cheap nylon holster on a Glock or something.

 

[Ronbert]

It may be more like journalistic malpractice.
They covered the who, what, when, and where.

How is beyond most journalist's understanding.

No way was this a "simple hug."

 

[Tom Servo]

Detroit police are issued the S&W M&P in .40.

 

[Smilin Jack]

Sounds like a lap dance gone awry.....

 

[Tickling]

I think this article being "anti-gun" propaganda might be taking things a bit far. From reading the mother's comments at the end of the article it sounds like she'll be after some money. So that would explain why the police haven't released any details.

If the story happened how it says it happened.. The only physical way for it to occur would for him to be bent over forwards and her to be leaning over or on her knees. Maybe a hug and then a fall?

I think either A) the cops are keeping details out of the press, or B) this off-duty cop and the mother are trying to protect the decease's dignity.

I just hope that the department the officer involved is from isn't running the investigation

 

[Cheapshooter]

I have seen no mention of what make of gun it was. One article says a gun with no safety on the trigger. Another shows a picture of a Sig 228.
Detroit Free Press article headline, and quote.
Story headline:

Trigger of officer's gun in accidental party shooting had no safety, police say

Quote from Detroit police:

It's possible, Godbee said, that the trigger of the department-issued gun, which does not have a safety, could be manipulated through the soft holster it was being carried on the officer's waist.

Just not adding up? Or typically poor journalism?

 

[sigcurious]

What comes to mind for me when I read the article and what few details are available, pantsing gone wrong. It would explain the victim hugging/tugging at his waist from behind and being in position that would put her chest in line with a discharge from a holstered firearm. Or Perhaps she was on the ground trying to use the officer as leverage to get up? Granted, there would still need to be a deficiency in the holster, such as softened leather.

 

[learningcurve]

Ok I might have over looked this point. However I will put it up just the same. Not taking a side to any of it I was just thinking, How many times do you see videos of men and women dancing where they do that move where they put there butts as close to the ground while holding onto the waste or anything else they can get ahold of.

Perhaps and I am by no means a expert at dancing or anything like that but it could explain the angle of the round leaving the barrel. She could have been attempting to get back up from a move she couldnt make do to alchohol or lack of balance or any number of things. I saw a video on tru tv last night of a club or something where the people dancing where doing that move and for some reason that came to mind while I was reading the story.

Either way I would hate to be in either families shoes right now. I never set out with the thought of I will be shooting today when I put my gun on to just step out to the store. If I ever do I doubt I will be able to sleep at night for quite awhile.

Just a thought or two I had on the subject.

 

[Baba Louie]

http://www.wpxi.com/ap/ap/crime/detroit-chief-fatal-party-shooting-an-accident/nPpqJ/

"There was some manipulation along the officer's waistline (that) he did not control," Godbee told reporters.

Maybe a better made holster of horsehide as opposed to soft leather? And never let anyone near your weapon, party or not.

 

[Nanuk]

I have been carrying a gun concealed for over 30 years and never had a shot go off from being hugged.

 

[Chettt]

Could it not have just been shaken loose from the holster a bit while dancing and the trigger snagged on the officer's clothing or holster? I don't find this too hard to imagine when people shoot themselves in the leg while holstering their pistol.

I feel bad for all families involved.

 

[pax]

I can see that as a possibility for explaining how the gun went off. I'm still very skeptical about the idea that a gun in the IWB holster of a standing person could go off and injure the person standing next to him in the chest.

Agreed. I can't visualize that, either.

One way I can visualize this happening would be something like this:

1. Cop dancing with wife, with his back to the other woman.
   
2. Other woman comes up behind him, hugs or pats his waistband (saw the gun first, maybe? deliberately reaching for the gun? How weird is it to hug the guy while he's dancing with his wife...?)
   
3. Woman's action, deliberate or otherwise, pulls the gun at least partly out of the holster.
   
4. Cop spins around, fast, to prevent unauthorized access to his firearm.
   
5. Cop's spin changes the muzzle direction, or causes woman to fumble the gun, or some variant of the two.
   
6. Woman's hand clenches on the trigger, either tightening her grip or grabbing for the gun as it falls.

End of story.

I can't visualize any way for her to get shot in the chest that does not begin with the gun outside the officer's holster.

pax

 

[Double Naught Spy]

When is a hug not simple? If someone is poking me with their fingers and grabbing things and groping me - it's not a hug anymore.

Even if grabbing and groping, it would be described as during a hug by witnesses. A lot can go on during hugs. They certainly are not all simple.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jcigk7k7h9U
http://www.h2g2.com/approved_entry/A603668

Of course, hugs can involve all sorts of patting and rubbing, probably what you would call groping even though if it was by you on your grandmother, you might not.

And as noted previously, she was dancing with the officer at the time. Hugs are part of all sorts of dances and hugging while dancing certainly adds complexity.

No, not all hugs are "simple" as you describe.

And are there IWB holsters that have the muzzle pointing both back and up?

Really? Cool. Which models exactly. Are they for drawing the gun through the fly? That would be deep concealment wouldn't it? So of the models that are like this, which ones are like the one described for the officer?

Just not adding up? Or typically poor journalism?

It may not add up, but it certainly may not be poor journalism or some sort of leftist writing. Keep in mind that journalists often state the particulars of a case as told to them by the cops. I have seen where journalists report a bolt rifle as an assault rifle, but it as specifically as the cops stated. No, most journalists probably don't know squat about guns, but they expect the "expert" cops to know what they are talking about.

Both Sgt. Eren Stephens and the Chief gave statements as to the circumstances, so the information sounds like it comes from the department, so the fact that the information we want isn't there isn't surprising and may in fact be part of the ongoing investigation. At this point, that may be all that the cops know or are willing to share about the event. When you read about other such tragedies, it isn't as if you get the full explanation down to the most tiny details.

 

[harrys ghost]

Article with a little more information: http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Detroit-mom-questions-how-daughter-shot-during-hug-3693451.php

Apparently, the gun is question was a S&W M&P.

 

[youngunz4life]

honestly, stranger things have happened. RIP

 

[firespec35]

As said before Detroit PD is issued the S&W M&P 40 fs with no external safety. I think they have a heavier trigger though. I know for sure the m&p 40c that they can purchase for off duty carry must be speced with a heavier trigger but not exactly sure about their dept issued duty gun. It was in a neoprene iwb holster something like a blackhawk.
Now I carry a m&p 45c in a blackhawk #6 (I get one with every gun I buy so I can carry till I decide what real holster I want) My gun is pretty close in size to a fs 40 and when I wear my gun most of the trigger guard is covered by my belt. This isn't passing the smell test

 

[9mm]

oo

nvm it was merged

"Why do you need a gun at your own house? Why do you need a gun at your own party?" McNair asked. She said she would be watching the police investigation closely.

Because thugs could come and rob you?

But Godbee said Parrish's waist holster was made of a soft material, and it would be possible for the trigger to be pulled while the gun was in it. He said the barrel direction typically would have been pointing down while holstered.