Homemade 20mm sniper rifle

Status
Not open for further replies.
No disrespect for a brave plan, but I don't believe you can construct an accurate high-caliber sniper firearm at home. Certainly not without a lot of expierience, knowledge and specialized tools or existing gun parts.
Improvised explosives and small firearms are the way to go.
 
I've found this an interesting thread. We can pontificate but who really knows what China's true intentions/goals are. I would have some concern if i were you. My hat's off to you for planning a defense.

I'm not qualified to speak on the technical knowledge of assembling a 20mm sniper rifle. I can say that with enough money and time I'm sure you can get one (assuming within Philippine law).

There are other ways to beat a 50 BMG other than head on. Or any force for that matter. I would start by reading my "Guidebook for Marines" again. Any Army or military infantry manual would be good. Emphasis on Guerrilla tactics and improvised explosives. Put the money and effort into training yourself and others who share your concern. IMHO
 
PhillipineExpedient,

"...how do i outrange .50 BMG armed snipers and hit them acceptably accurately?"

That is the wrong question to ask.

The right question to ask, for any potential guerrila:

"How do I detect the enemy before he can detect me?"
"Once I've detected an enemy, how do I deal with him?"
and lastly,
"Once I've dealt with the enemy, can I survive the reaction from his friends?"

It isn't enough just to outrange the enemy if the enemy can use camouflage to get inside your range. It isn't enough to just be able to detect the enemy if you have no ability to apply combat power against him. It isn't enough just to do any single thing.

Your quest for a home made 20mm sniper rifle is what I like to call, "Silver Bullet" thinking. The idea is that, "If I just have this one cool capability it will guarantee success!" but in reality that line of thinking only works on Congressmen once you tell them that you'll build it in their district. In reality, the right mix of capabilities is what wins a fight.

In my experience getting a rifle in a combat zone isn't exactly a problem. The "invaders" always bring rifles with them, and then third party actors flood the area with rifles to help the insurgents. In Iraq we lost an M40 sniper rifle in combat to Iraqi insurgents. We recovered it three years later with a cheap Tasco 3-9x40 scope tack welded on to the bases because the Iraqi who was using it couldn't figure out how to use the Unertl that was mounted on it. It wasn't uncommon to find Druganovs and other ComBlock sniper rifles all over the place.

A successful insurgency depends more on good logistic support, knowing the terrain (human and natural/urban) and being able to conduct the two classic guerrila operations, the ambush and break contact drill. A small fish can eat an elephant if it takes a lot of bites...

You might want to spend some time studying how in the world the -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED- managed to stay a fighting force. Remember, the right mix of capabilities, not a silver bullet solution.

Jimro
 
perhaps some toy binoculars, homemade jamming systems and carbine-length machine pistols/SMGs?

in terms of tactics, seeming to come from the east and opening fire from the west, decoys, ambushes and others?
 
You seem to be a little too fixated on outranging .50cal sniper rifles. if you think you're gonna win that guerilla war by getting into some epic sniper duel, I'm afraid you'll be highly disappointed.
Like I said, IEDs and cheap subguns and silenced weapons will be infinitely more useful than a huge bulky inaccurate one-shot cannon.
Inaccurate because without proper machine tools and barrel making equipment, there's no way you're getting anything beyond 19th century accuracy out of the thing, no matter how creative you are.
And one-shot because a 20mm is a big, heavy, rifle. Even when made of specialized materials specifically engineered to increase strength and reduce weight. How light do you think you can make it out of hardware store pipe?
Meaning after you take your first shot, you will have maybe a couple minutes to get the hell out of there before they turn the whole area into a crater with artillery and air support (professional militaries don't have time for one on one sniper duels)
Except you're not going anywhere carrying that cannon around, so you're pretty much gonna have to leave it behind if you want to live.
Are you gonna build a new one every time you take a pot-shot at someone?

On top of that IF the Chinese invade anywhere it will be an occupation with you trying to drive them out. During the occupation it's safe to assume they will have alot of patrols and surveillance everywhere specifically to catch people like you. How will you move from one firing position to another? You can't exactly hide a 20mm rifle under your jacket.

I'm all for armed resistance in the face of invasion and occupation, but gimmicks and fantasies about shootouts with .50cal armed snipers is not gonna get you very far.

Make alot of cheap disposable silenced weapons. Arm everyone you know with them, and use them to ambush enemy patrols and take their guns.
In the long run, a factory-made AK or Dragunov is still better than anything you can cobble together in your garage. If you plan on fighting a war, that's a very important thing to consider.
 
"i'm wondering, what if i did a fin-stabilized discarding-sabot round, as heavy as a 20mm bullet but has a caliber of .45 to .50"

I thought this sounded familiar;
"The SRS99 AM is a semi-automatic UNSC sniper rifle that fires 14.5 x 114mm APFSDS (Armor-Piercing Fin-Stabilized ..." --Halo; Combat Evolved

There's plenty of actual, factual, applied tactics sites out there (in Arabic) to mine from, so why troll us with this nonsense? We're enthusiasts, not counter/revolutionaries (not that many here seem to realize this). If you are a legitimately-illegitimate freedom fighter, you seem to be in greater need of a trainer than a rifle.

20mm is big enough to kill both you and everyone adjacent if done wrong. You'd need a background in structural mechanics and engineering (stress analysis, particularly) to do this right. There are plans out there, but trusting them on faith will likely end you. I'm following a 20mm build blog, myself, and a lot of planning and forethought went into that guy's, and he still built in a lot of extra margin. No, I won't divulge the location of the thread, without an indication you are serious and capable of giving the project the respect it deserves.

To do otherwise is purely reckless. Start with a blowback burp gun, which is pretty fool proof and widely documented, if you must insist on such an ill concieved notion as solo resistance fighting.

TCB
 
I can't reconcile the op wanting a homade projectile, cartridge and rifle. Seems dangerous as others have stated.

I think a better route would be use an existing cartridge... .50bmg for one and build a gun around that. Find existing rifle parts around that.. Barrett ect
Or just one of the higher power spectrum hunting rifles and good tactics....

Really anything sounds better than attempting a 20mm build

Like I said before... Lobbing something would be a fairly simple undertaking, however, something that outclasses 50bmg is in a whole different spectrum of energy
 
Most do when they are listed under General anything . Many replies but no definant answer . Makes simple conversation .
Motar is a good idea , out of all the WW2 German weapons developed the motar was thier most allie casualty produceing weapon .
 
There are several flaws in the whole concept. First, Philippine islands are typically not known for their vast open steppes, where you fire at max distance. Second, you're firing at a modern mechanized army. Even if you have a Lathi and outrange any countersniper fire, your opponent will either have mortars or heavy artillery on call to lob a dozen rounds near your position; they are most likely not too concerned with collateral damage.
If you really want to defend your homeland from the invading red hordes, learn how to build remote controlled IEDs. Of course, fighting a series of local insurrections, your own government might strenuously object to any experiments in that area.
 
Psalm7. The mortar has been around for centuries. What we call the modern mortar was used first in WWI, it was invented by Sir Wilfred Stokes.

The most popular mortar of WWII was the 81mm developed by the French and used by all sides.

Not sure about casualties inflicted by mortars in WWII, but it'd be near the top.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortar_(weapon)
 
Maybe look at history a bit. Not many have successfully defended against a superpower. Even in the case when that SP has ultimately turned it has come at a huge loss to the defender. The most successful that come to mind is Middle Eastern countries against the Soviets. The tactic has been IED, blind shots and the ability to live in horrid conditions longer than the aggressor. China has a standing army of 1.5m troops in 18 corps, virtually limitless manufacturing and funding. The US would have a tough time defending against China, mostly because all of "our" manufacturing is in China. Small arms and IEDs are the best tactic to annoy them enough that they go away or stall them until diplomatic end is reached. Facing a trained sniper with a precision rifle using a homemade weapon and untrained personal is suicide. But to each his own.
 
Too many people in modern society have a mindset that because a goal is difficult, and possibly unattainable, then it is a "bad idea". Nothing could be further from the Truth! The first "Pilgrims" did not set out for America because it was deemed to be an easy life...... likewise, the settlers packing up for "Kantuckee" or "Or-egon" or "The Great Basin" .....they went because of Freedom ....
Click to expand...

A very noble thought. However brave or admirable those people were, plenty of them died.
As for fighting a super power like china is concerned, the smartest choice is to either retreat to another superpower, or fight quietly via resistance movements, and not get caught. Dying in an unproductive manner, (such as attempting to shoot a tank with a 20mm pipe bomb) only makes the problem worse.
 
Last edited:
Here's another Noble Thought:

Quote:
Too many people in modern society have a mindset that because a goal is difficult, and possibly unattainable, then it is a "bad idea". Nothing could be further from the Truth! The first "Pilgrims" did not set out for America because it was deemed to be an easy life...... likewise, the settlers packing up for "Kantuckee" or "Or-egon" or "The Great Basin" .....they went because of Freedom ....
Click to expand...

A very noble thought. However brave or admirable those people were, plenty of them died.
Click to expand...


Aye, but they all lived ....."Every man dies. Not every man really lives."
 
You don't win by dying for your country, you win by causing some other poor soul to die for theirs.
Pull back, be smart and live to fight another day
 
Assuming this thread is true and the discussion here would have any impact:

I would forget building an accurate rifle, especially something of essentially an anti-tank caliber.

Where are you going to source ammunition for it? Do you know how to get primers for a 20mm shell? What about projectiles? Do you have a supply somewhere of projectiles for a 20mm cannon? Otherwise, you'd need a really good lathe, consistent turning material, and a really good micrometer. Without these things, your ammo would be very inconsistent at best and horribly dangerous at worst. Your gunpowder would have to be incredibly consistent if you're trying to outrange something capable of shooting 2,000 yards or more.

Also, do you know the peak pressure of any anti-materiel rounds? Whether .50 BMG, 14.5mm, or 20mm, how do you plan on building an action capable of withstanding such immense peak pressures? How are you going to mount a scope securely enough so that it doesn't come loose every shot and where are you going to find a scope that can withstand the tremendous recoil?

I think what's more feasible is more conventional small arms. Surplus battle rifles like Mosin Nagants and Arisakas might be a good first option. If those aren't available, there are several other forms of firearms that are more easily manufactured. The Sten submachine gun was created because it was very simple to make in very limited shops out of not much more than a few pipes and springs. 12 gauge shotgun designs can be made as simply as two pipes and a nail (though I doubt their safety) going on up from there. A 12 gauge slug out of an appropriate barrel can easily reach 100 yards. Not to mention, if you're loading ammunition for a shotgun, I believe it to be much less sensitive to the powder type used and it leaves open the possibility of much more improvised projectiles. 12 gauge slugs can be cast out of recycled lead fairly easily, and other common enough objects like large steel ball bearings could theoretically be used.

Open bolt submachine guns, 12 gauge slug guns, single shot pistols/derringers/revolvers, all seem to be closer to the direction I would think you should be looking in. Another thing that might be worth looking into is machining sub-caliber inserts to allow a single shot 12 gauge to fire a variety of different ammunition when a source of one type can't be relied upon. Of course, machining the inserts would probably require at least a lathe and probably some other specialty tools.

There are a couple of books that might be worth picking up for you. There's Ragnar Benson's "Guerilla Gunsmithing", or actually any number of books by Benson. He's also got one on Homemade Grenade Launchers. Looking around, I also see such books as "gunsmithing with simple hand tools", "Improvised modified firearms", "Home Workshop Guns for Defense and Resistance." These types of books, while controversial to even exist, do tend to exist for exactly this reason.

I also am reminded of seeing several interesting articles on the home made weaponry of the Syrian rebels. I remember reading one about them taking a .50 caliber machine gun from a fallen plane and rigging up a mount to set it on the back of a truck. Of course even those guys sourced most of their weapons from captured materials from the enemies - whether entire guns or the unused explosives from a dud bomb that failed to go off. One such article is here. http://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2013/02/diy-weapons-of-the-syrian-rebels/100461/

I would note that even in that series of weapons, they seem to have access to a somewhat sophisticated machine shop. A powered lathe, a drill press, a milling machine would all be greatly helpful. If you could track down any of those along with good stock, you could probably make just about anything with the right knowledge of how to do it. Without any of those, you're going to find it very difficult. And even with all of those machines, for any kind of real accuracy, you would need a rifled barrel. A .416 Barett or 20mm Anzio out of a smoothbore barrel may go a long distance, but I'm sure it won't hit what you're aiming at.

All of the above is obviously under the understanding that you plan to do what is legal under your area's laws or in exigent wartime circumstances as a matter of survival, and that you're not doing it (illegally) presently under a currently peaceful and otherwise presumably standard country that you're living in now.
 
ok....

I've already shifted my prime objective from building an AM rifle to building a pistol-caliber carbine of sorts using a .380 ACP machine pistol, I'll post a new thread soon about that.


But i'd still need something to take out tanks at short range besides IED's
Any suggestions?
 
Might be a little outside the scope of what we do here, but (again assuming you are following legalities of your area, which we are likely not familiar with), have you considered something like thermite? It's largely iron oxide and aluminum powder set off with a strip of magnesium. You could also consider a binary compound of something like tannerite, set in a large visible target (maybe something like a basketball) and set from a sizable distance.

But again, we're starting to get a little outside the realm of what's often discussed here. There might be better websites for those types of questions. shtfschool.com comes to mind. The author there apparently lived through some pretty awful things in his own country, although I don't know if the story's been authenticated. There are also more "prepper" type boards where they might discuss this type of thing more freely.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top