Home defense help

While the proximity of neighbors is something to consider, there is, for me, a more important reason to put the centerfire rifle (carbine) at the bottom of my "inside the house" list of firearms choices.

Powder. Specifically the amount of powder being burned. There is a huge difference between burning 20-25gr of powder (or more) and 5-6gr (or less??) in a closed space.

Trust me, the effect is NOT like what you "hear" on TV!!!!

If you are stressed enough, auditory exclusion may prevent you from noticing the sound of the shot, AT THE TIME. However that does not change the damage the sound does.

There is a lot of talk lately about AR's and how the .223 with the RIGHT BULLET penetrate walls less than pistol rounds or even buckshot. And, that is true, with the right bullet. With the wrong bullet, it is NOT true.

What never seems to be mentioned is what ELSE happens when you fire an AR inside a closed room. Even in a 15x15 room its pretty bad, and worse in smaller spaces. I would choose a pistol caliber carbine over a .223 or .30 Russian short (or anything larger) for that reason alone.

There is a real, and valid reason why SWAT entry teams use a high percentage of suppressed weapons.

Don't even THINK about using TV & movie action heroes as role models or a training standard. You, and I, are legally responsible for every round we fire, whether it hits someone, something, or nothing. We don't have a police dept, city,county,state, or Federal govt umbrella to cover our legal costs.

In NY state, I would go for the shotgun, there are fewer legal restrictions. I would also start the process of getting your pistol permit. The way NY works, you will have plenty of time to learn what else you need to know before they get around to approving your permit.
 
It seems like sportsfan has left the building.
Maybe after researching the jumps and hoops necessary to beg permission for owning a gun in NY, he had a rude awakening and just opted for an alarm system, a blinding flashlight, an air horn, a ball bat, a butcher knife, and a camping axe.
See how simple life can be.
 
Skans said:
Pump shotguns only hold about 6 rounds and reloading is not really a possibility.
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That's O.K. as a home invasion will probably be resolved, one way or the other, within 2 or 3 shots. And, in the case of a 12 Gauge 00 Buckshot round, you have nine .33 caliber pellets :)
 
Shotgun? Pistol?

This is coming from a retired ER doctor and a previous elected coroner. About twenty years in the ER showed me that birdshot at "in house" ranges can be lethal and penetrates in many instances. Even the lowly .410 was seen to be lethal at close range. Some will say that recoil of a shotgun will make it hard to use. My wife and I have spent quality time practicing a pump type shotgun handling in the home. She is not to put the stock to her shoulder, but to tuck it snugly under her upper arm and be prepared for the sound and the much reduced perceived recoil. Aiming with the stock at the shoulder is not usually necessary in the house, simply pointing will usually do the job. Try it if you don't believe me. 00 buck loads in the house are not as likely to leave the property as rifle rounds,shotgun slugs and some pistol rounds. "Control the weapon" is the mantra. She is also quite capable with a handgun.
 
I live outside city limits, so my bedroom gun is a Remington 870 12ga. with 18" barrel. It is a retired cruiser gun with a 6 round magazine, Choate pistol grip stock, and Surefire forearm with inset light. I got it for $300 and felt guilty. I am very familiar with this gun and have every bit of confidence I can operate it with the lights out. I've also done countless barricade training with it, including combat competitions, so I'm used to shooting it under stress and in simulated home environments. Training is key in home defense firearms.

The reason I specified "outside city limits" is due to the rounds I use and the load order. First round (chambered) and second round are 00 buck. Third round is a double ball round, each ball weighing approximately 1oz. The next 3 rounds are the same as the first three, and the 7th round is a 1oz. rifled slug. I don't have to worry about shooting into a neighboring house, so this type of load works for MY home and property layout.

For close neighbors, I would definitely recommend staying away from the slugs. The double ball may still be viable however, as they have significantly less powder due to space constraints from the projectiles. For safety's sake though, I'd opt for buckshot.

Last year we had a residential shootout where a guy was launching various caliber rounds through his house. He wasn't shooting at individual targets, he was simply shooting through his floors, walls and ceilings, as he was barricaded upstairs. Miraculously, he was taken into custody without anyone being injured, but the resulting collateral damage included various caliber rounds hitting and penetrating houses up to a block away.

THAT BEING SAID, in my own experience, using rifles for home defense in residential areas is highly irresponsible.

The sound factor was also mentioned earlier. I will admit, in the heat of the moment, you may not notice the sound nearly as much with the adrenaline pumping. But if you've never fired any type of firearm inside a closed structure without hearing protection...the effects are very long lasting, and the increased adrenaline will definitely affect any followup shots without proper practice. The more you train, the more your mechanical instincts will kick in and take your brain out of the equation in those situations.

Also, I prefer the dog alarm to electronic systems. A 90lb German Shepherd is loud AND comes with a lot of teeth.

Sent from my SM-S975L using Tapatalk
 
The main reason to have a defensive weapon in a house, is to be able to maneuver inside that house. If you have a weapon that sticks out, in to the places that intruders are, in the dark, you just awoke?

You could be on the end of a tug of war!

So even though you are in this Handgun unfriendly place NYS, start the process! A Glock 43, 7 rounds of 9mm, a very shoot able pistol, and you could hire one before you are able to buy one.

Very little sticking out to grab. Hold a push button flash light in your off hand.

With an unloaded G43, and flashlight, in the house on your own first, prowl all over! Move everywhere, peep, roam, listen.

Spend an hour, amazing what you will find out. If you are going to add anything, TruGlo night sights!
 
The main reason to have a defensive weapon in a house, is to be able to maneuver inside that house.
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I would disagree, slightly. The main reason to have a defensive weapon in a house is to have a defensive weapon. One that is short and handy such as a handgun, has distinct advantages, IF you are moving around inside the house, but less if you are not.

IF your defense plan is to explore, and do houseclearing of bad guys, then a pistol is a good choice, and better than a long gun, IF the possibility of hand to hand combat exists. (although there is something to be said for a shorter rifle with fixed bayonet...which is probably why bayonet lugs are on the list of evil features that make something an "assault weapon".....:rolleyes:)

If your plan is to hole up in a "safe room" and wait for the police, a 36" barrel goose gun will serve just as well as a pistol, perhaps better...
 
I think it's better to hole up with a gun and call 911. To go looking for the baddies is too risky.

Make plan with the family with a call word like a name that no one has and collect in a room with locks.

Something like, "Mona! Where are you?" as a call word.
 
@ Sportsfan1970.....PALADIN 7... Gave some pretty sound advice.
I would guess your wife will find a shotgun too punishing to practice much.
I would also guess once your wife sees how much fun shooting 38 specials is .
She will have a blast , you will see that she feels comfortable and empowered with this new revolver....... A 4" barrel stainless steel 357 Magnum is by far the one my girls shoot the most , My 81 year old mother will make you proud with a 38 , She's got that Missouri blood .......
Go buy a 686 or GP 100 and don't look back...go have the time of your life see what you have been missing........................
 
Sportsfan1970
Stop into any gun shop or Dick's Field & Stream on Rt 110. You can handle the rifles not the handguns unless you have a pistol permit. Tell them what your looking for, they will help you. Have you ever handled a firearm? Fill out the application & get that pistol permit.
 
12 Gauge 1 OZ of #6 Shot. And it MUST be a Pump Action.

Buckshot is for a war zone NOT a house that might have innocents sleeping behind just two layers of sheet rock.
 
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zorro said:
And it MUST be a Pump Action.
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Why?

Cycling a pump is not a natural action for the majority of users who very seldom use or practice with a shotgun. I've seen many "once a year" shooters forget to cycle them at the range for a second shot then stand there trying to figure out why it won't shoot again. Add in the stress of being in an actual gunfight and things ARE NOT going to get easier for them.

If being "tacticool" is not important to you, something like a 20 gauge Remington 11-87 semi-auto works well for many people. Less recoil than a 12 gauge, fires every time you press the trigger, and will be just as effective at in the house distances.
 
One ounce of #6 shot is an extremely light load for a pheasant that is likely to be AT LEAST 30 feet from the shooter before a shot is fired. Such a load will almost certainly hurt and scare an attacker but it is not a good self-defense load anywhere.

When recommending a home defense shotgun, it make no sense to assume the skill and experience levels of a shotgun owner. Who knows how often
pump shotgun owners shoot their pump shotguns? Suggesting a semi-automatic shotgun as a home defense weapon for those who own one or more pump shotguns makes no sense.

A semi-automatic 12 gauge shotgun would be a fine home defense shotgun assuming it was reliable with home defense loads.

A home defense shotgun is more suitable if it has a relatively short barrel so it can be handled more easily near furniture, doors, and HUMANS. An extended magazine increasing the capacity of a shotgun is a plus.
 
Better late then never.

A simple point and shoot weapon for either you or the wife's use.
a Double barrel 20 gauge.

Double> 00_ Buck _Federal brand.
2 shots only.
Than beat the living hell out of em with the gun. I guarantee the intruder/s won't be back.
 
I don't see how a double barrel 20 gauge is any easier to shoot than a 12 gauge pump, but maybe I'm missing something. And am I wrong in saying that a double barrel is probably more expensive than a pump? In any event, I already bought the Mossberg 500 and will be getting a chance to shoot it this weekend. In my home the maximum range that I would be needing it for is about 10 yards, and likely only 3 yards if I am using it as a barricade weapon in my bedroom, so I am thinking that even with only a bit of familiarity I should be comfortable with counting on this gun if needed.

My current challenge, which I will tackle today, is to dissemble the gun and clean it before going to the range and get it put back together with all the pieces included.
 
I just looked at the Mossberg website and was shocked by the number of variations of the 500. Which one did you get? Of course a double barrel is more expensive than a pump and is limited to two quick shots before reloading.
 
And am I wrong in saying that a double barrel is probably more expensive than a pump?
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A quality-made good one is - by a LOT.

a Double barrel 20 gauge.

Double> 00_ Buck _Federal brand.
Click to expand...

Please link to 00 buck ammo in 20 gauge.

For new/seldom shooters, a semi would be preferable over a pump, especially if frequent practice is not in the cards.
 
I got the Persuader. It has a 20 inch barrel and 8 round capacity. Took it apart to clean and it took me forever to get it back together. I almost gave up but then got it.

I'm curious why a semi is recomended over a pump for someone who will not shoot it a lot. I'll admit I don't plan to use it much, or clean it more than I have to.
 
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