Home defense, .357 vs. 12 gauge?

[Dragline45]

Any of the firearms listed could leave you with the symptoms you describe. If a sound reaches 85 dB or stronger, it can cause permanent damage to your hearing.

Trust me, a 9mm will ring your chimes, as will a 380 or even a 22.
9mm with no hearing pro is pretty loud and sharp.

No doubting that, if you go back and read my previous post I admitted to such

With that said any round will damage your hearing, but some have the potential to cause more damage.

But what I don't agree with is this

So your choices are wear hearing protection, use a sound moderator, or don't shoot. The type or calibre won't make much difference .

The round used absolutely makes a difference

According to the study done on here by Dr. William Clark, Ph.D. senior research scientist in charge of the Noise Laboratory at the Central Institute for the Deaf in St. Louis http://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtml

OUR WARNING IS SIMPLE AND IS IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF EACH SHOOTER. AS THE SOUND PRESSURES INCREASE, SO DOES THE RISK OF PERMANENT HEARING LOSS. IF YOU INCORPORATE A PROCEDURE INTO YOUR SHOOTING THAT INCREASES THE SOUND LEVEL, YOU ALSO INCREASE THE RISK OF HEARING LOSS TO YOURSELF AND POSSIBLY THOSE WHO STAND NEAR YOU.

If I can mitigate the amount of damage done while still using a suitable caliber I will, which is one of the reasons I choose a full size long barreled 9mm for my bedside gun and a compact 9mm for carry vs something like a .357 which I did carry at one point.

As far as real life experience, I fired a single .357 round without hearing protection at an indoor range. My left ear range unbearably loud for 3-4 months, and I couldn't shower or drive with windows down in the car for almost a month and a half without an earplug in my ear or the pain was too much. To this day I am stuck with permanent ringing in my left ear and high frequency hearing loss.

About 2 years later a buddy of mine accidentally discharged a small 9mm compact inside of the car with all the windows up, I was in this car and although my ears rang pretty good by the time I woke up the next morning they were back to normal. Now keep in mind that my left ear is much more susceptible to damage since the first incident, and even with that 9mm round discharged in such a confined space it didn't do NEARLY the amount of damage that the .357 round did. As noted a 3db increase equates to twice the sound pressure, that means there is a huge difference between 9mm and .357 as far as decibel levels and sound pressure, which in turn will result in less potential to damage your hearing.

 

[lamarw]

My 12 gauge holds 8 rounds. My .357 Magnum holds 6 rounds. I keep the shotgun next to the nightstand.

 

[Sequins]

I once emptied a magazine from a 9mm Keltec P11 (short barreled polymer compact) and I didn't realize for years why my right ear was worse than my left. Shooting is why. Luckily 9mm saved me from tinnitis but I've heard it's horrible.

I have ear pro beside my bedside handgun and I plan to wear ear pro in an HD situation. The last one of these decibel threads convinced me to make that addition. Because this is an HD thread I'd like to mention something else on the subject as well... Have a light on your long gun, or a flashlight next to your handgun, and rehearse commands so you give them a chance to surrender or retreat, insulating yourself not only legally but morally.

 

[rickyrick]

Mammals don't fare to well with holes in them. Shoot them with what you got.

Hit the person and stop worrying about Sheetrock

Guns are loud indoors, your coffin is silent, make a choice

 

[jmr40]

Inside most homes I prefer a handgun. Carbines have their place and I much prefer them to a shotgun. Shotguns can be effective, but are over rated.

 

[Doc Holliday 1950]

we've thought about this for quite some time. Even though we are "357 mag"
lovers, we both agree that a shotgun ,in the bedroom, is quite a show stopper.
Only problem is what I want is not legal. I want a sawed off shotgun and that's against the law. I'm not sure I want to take a chances legally with one. that being said, for now we'll settle for our 357's with lasers.

 

[Dragline45]

Double post

 

[Dragline45]

Only problem is what I want is not legal. I want a sawed off shotgun and that's against the law.

Aside from paying a $200 tax stamp for a short barreled shotgun you can still legally have a pretty small setup.

Requirement is a barrel length of at least 18", and overall length at least 26", a double barrel shotgun since it lacks the action of a pump or semi will be shorter in the same barrel length.

Here is an 18" side by side which looks to have about a 12-13" LOP stock.

 

[Dashunde]

I like that side-by-side a lot... Its a really great option, but I'll stick with a short pump to get a few more rounds.

 

[Theohazard]

But the drywall will stop the average buck-shot.

I know this has already been addressed, but I want to emphasize how completely wrong this statement is.

I don't know where this myth came from, but it's not just incorrect, it's also potentially dangerous. Buckshot will blast through many walls. Here's a good test I like to link to when this myth comes up (and it comes up a lot, unfortunately):

http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/index.html

And here's a direct link to the results:

http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/results.html

"Of course, no internal wall penetration test would be complete without including some good old-fashioned 00 Buck. We saved this one for last on the assumption that it would destroy entire sets of walls. This assumption turned out to be completely correct.
[...]
If buckshot is supposed to limit penetration through interior walls, it does so only at a theoretical level."

All common defensive rounds will pentrate walls, the only question is, "How many?" And buckshot, especially 00, penetrates many walls before stopping.

 

[Salmoneye]

Requirement is a barrel length of at least 18", and overall length at least 26", a double barrel shotgun since it lacks the action of a pump or semi will be shorter in the same barrel length.

Ever pull the trigger on an 18" barreled shotgun without hearing protection?

Me neither...But I have pulled the trigger on a 20" 12ga in an open cornfield cleaning up other people's crippled geese...Painful is the word that comes to mind...

I can NOT imagine firing one inside a dwelling...

 

[Cosmodragoon]

I don't know how you feel about lever action, but you could always opt for a .357 carbine. At least outside, it is quieter than your average revolver. Here is a relatively affordable nine-shot with a 16" barrel:

 

[FairWarning]

12 GA, thank you.

My handgun choice for indoor defense is a full sized .45 or 9mm doublestack.

 

[JeffK]

Well there's a pile of real data there, that doesn't mention Joe Biden confused, to show otherwise. If the main consideration is to not penetrate walls when protecting one's life against an intruder, the best choice might be a rapier.

 

[rickyrick]

Don't need a trained dog. Just one with a sense of territory. Two is better.

You will never need a firearm in your house.

My dogs allow me to leisurely put on a robe and thumb through my selection of firearms.

My experience with 00 buck and building materials... Pretty much the same as any other .30 cal projectiles.... Except there's more of them.

At home defense range, the pattern is tight. A miss is a miss just as it is with a rifle or handgun. You fired at the wrong moment.

I I agree with the person that posted the carbine suggestion.

 

[Dragline45]

It's not a myth what it means is the drywall will reduce the energy level. You can claim anything all you want, a shotgun inside a house is far safer than any other firearm,,,Period !

It actually isn't. 5.56/.223 with light varmint bullets or HP's is the safest thing to fire inside a house in regards to over penetration. The small light bullets moving at speeds of 3000fps+ tend to fragment and break up in dry wall. 12g buckshot on the other hand will pass through dry wall like a hot knife through butter. There are loads of tests out there done to determine this.

Again not all 5.56/.223 loads will fragment in dry wall, a light varmint round or hollow point is what is needed to achieve this, and even then it's not 100% You see alot of dry wall tests with M193 to try to prove the claim that 5.56 penetrates less in drywall, but M193 is not really the correct choice for this application.

 

[Brit]

The first consideration here, you abode, design, and who is in it as owners.

First, my Wife and I. Second, small two story town house.

The front door could be smashed in, noisy! Bits wood and glass to navigate, whilst holding screen door against its spring. Back sliding glass, 3M, baseball bat would not shatter it. Would take a while to get in, plus the next door dogs would be going nuts!

Pistol on bedside table, came out of holster, when we went to bed.

By this time I have a Glock 19 in hand, flashlight in other hand, LED on floor activated strobe, pointing at top of stairs... BRIGHT! Yes, we have practiced this.

Looking over rail, I would be looking at the back of anyone climbing stairs, I would be not visible, unless the person lay on their back looking back.
Even leaning over, shooting down, I would not be visible from down stairs! By anyone else. Muzzle pointed down, hopefully sound muted a little.


Four rounds of 9mm 147g Win. Ranger! At least! What is known as an anchor.

Press 911, IPhone, watch screen till seen as activated.
"I can not hear, I can not hear" "Send Police, Send Police, I can not hear."

By this time I would hope my Wife could take over the IPhone.

If not hunker down, and wait. Our Sheriff's Office is advanced. I recon they could figure it out.

 

[Theohazard]

a shotgun inside a house is far safer than any other firearm,,,Period !

No, it's not. Are you not paying attention to anything we're saying? A shotgun is one of the WORST firearms to use if you're worried about penetration inside your house.

The best firearm to use if you're worried about over-penetration is a .223 rifle loaded with soft- or hollow-points. It will penetrate through far fewer walls than a handgun or shotgun will.

 

[Gunfixr]

Each firearm has its pros and its cons, when it comes to using that firearm for home defense. If you really compare them, often ones benefits can be outweighed by its cons.
Everything in life is a trade.
Law enforcement has traded their subguns for short 5.56mm rifles. There are a few reasons, but one is that many 5.56 ammunition types penetrate building materials less effectively than many 9mm ammunition types. Granted, a subgun has a longer barrel, and some more velocity, but even from a handgun, 9mm will go through multiple walls and pieces of furniture before stopping, even jhps.
Yes, the shotgun is devastating on an adversary at close range. Its also devastating on pretty much everything else in the house. At room distance, unless you live in a large room mansion, all loads do about the same thing, make a fist sized hole in whatver it hits. Shot acts like a slug, at least until it meets the first object.
All of the choices are going to be loud. Decibles are exponential, so one number up is a multiple, not an addition. I dont go around shooting guns in the house (ok, i have, but they were suppressed), but i have fired pistols, shotguns, and rifles in a couple different vehicles. Even with earpro, its an event.
Long guns suffer from maneuverability in the confines of a house. You can go ar pistol, but now its even louder.
With modern jhps, theres not a large difference in the major calibers (above 380).
So really, you should be aware of whats in the room behind your target, and shot placement still counts.

So, use what you can hit with. You said you compete with a 1911 regularly. Unless you want more capacity, which by suggesting a revolver, you dont, why not just use it?
You can hit with it, you are already familiar with its manual of arms, and its a good choice. Not to mention you dont have to spend a bunch of money.
If you just want another gun, get one. This is America. Its not about need, its about want.

 

[jmr40]

It's not a myth what it means is the drywall will reduce the energy level. You can claim anything all you want, a shotgun inside a house is far safer than any other firearm,,,Period !

You need to really do some research on the topic instead of just repeating stuff you've heard.