Holder, Obama want new AWB

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Pelosi says lay off on guns FOR NOW...(The people have been bending over long enough and need a chance to heal before the next round of socialism and Federal government control of our lives).
 
Ar15 plus machine shop equals M16 in 20 minutes.
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You know, I see antis make that same argument but I've yet to see the machine shop that can put metal back onto a bolt carrier, hammer, sear, trigger and disconnector. I guess they could always machine their own M16 parts and add them to an AR15; but that is certainly not a 20 minute job and any machine shop sophisticated enough to do it will have no problem producing automatic weapons from scratch.

The government is already sharing NICS data with the Mexicans and has been for several years now. We already have the laws in place to stop this, all we need to do is enforce those laws. We hardly need new ones.
 
Let go of the gunwoobie. Crritical thinkers KNOW there is a problem with corrupt FFLs down there feeding this trade. So do the Feds. We may differ on the solutions, but lets not pretend the problem exists.

I could solve a good deal of the problem without even changing the law
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But let's try to at least admit what the REAL problem is.
Hint: It isn't the availability of guns, legal or illegal.
It's the illegal drug business, fueled by huge profits, created by decades of prohibition and the "war on drugs."
As long as this huge illegal profit incentive exists, the problem will persist.

Oh, and the other problem, the porous border and the hordes of illegal mexicans crossing it.
 
WildAlaska,

The problem is all of this activity is already illegal. Banning a bunch of semi-auto rifles in the US will do nothing to slow the flow of arms into the hands of the cartels.

This has nothing to do with the gunwoobie. I did not say anything about corrupt dealers as there are certainly corrupt dealers selling to straw men but that is already illegal. You can't make it anymore illegal.

The problem I and many others have is the AG insinuating that an AWB will stop the flow of weapons into Mexico. Since the activity they are trying to stop is already illegal is there really a need for more laws. You said yourself that the laws for combating this are already on the books.

As you mentioned Mexico is corrupt and needs to fix its own house before they demand others do it for them. We should certainly demand an end to the corruption. Corrupt government officials looking the other way can certainly make it very easy to smuggle arms.
 
As long as this huge illegal profit incentive exists, the problem will persist.

Oh, and the other problem, the porous border and the hordes of illegal mexicans crossing it.
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There isnt the political will to end Prohibition. The porous border causes political strife.

Does anyone really object to flooding the SW states with FFL auditors? Hows about smiling ATF agents in a booth at every gun show?

presence. The good guys wont be bothered, the bad guys will either stop or get caught.

But its easier to screech for a ban, or screech against enforcing laws.

WildsimplesolutionAlaska ™
 
What is most interesting to me is that you can no linger find the story on ABCNews.com unless you have the exact link directly to the article. I searched the site every way I could think of (author, article headline, quotes from the story), but it was missing. Is this now a coverup for something that has embarassed the Obama administration? I have emailed ABCNEWS and asked why I can't find the article.
 
WildAlaska,

The problem is all of this activity is already illegal. Banning a bunch of semi-auto rifles in the US will do nothing to slow the flow of arms into the hands of the cartels.

This has nothing to do with the gunwoobie. I did not say anything about corrupt dealers as there are certainly corrupt dealers selling to straw men but that is already illegal. You can't make it anymore illegal.

The problem I and many others have is the AG insinuating that an AWB will stop the flow of weapons into Mexico. Since the activity they are trying to stop is already illegal is there really a need for more laws. You said yourself that the laws for combating this are already on the books.

As you mentioned Mexico is corrupt and needs to fix its own house before they demand others do it for them. We should certainly demand an end to the corruption. Corrupt government officials looking the other way can certainly make it very easy to smuggle arms.
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You arent paying attention to what I am saying.

WildtryagainAlaska ™
 
I don't think you understand what I am saying.

A new AWB will not stem the flow of guns into Mexico. No matter what laws you pass in the US, guns will still get into Mexico.
 
A new AWB will not stem the flow of guns into Mexico. No matter what laws you pass in the US, guns will still get into Mexico.
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Actually, thats not true. Eventually, drying up the supply will help.

But again, thats not the issue. Read again what I am saying.

WildtheeasyanswerAlaska ™
 
WA:

Introducing heavy-handed F-troop tactics into gun shows is not the answer, unless the question is "how can we further alienate Arizonans and the FedGov during a democratic administration?"

I'll tell ya right now... the vast majority of private transfers I've seen at Phx gunshows involve the presentation of driver's licenses and/or CCW permits. We aren't likely to take kindly to somebody attempting to forcibly intercede in a transaction that a casual observer can obviously discern as a conscientious transaction.

Several dozen ATF troops swooping down on gun shows? Bad idea. Recipe for confrontation.

Several dozen ATF troops augmenting BP at border checkpoints or flying surveillance for illicit southbound gun running traffic? Much more valuable. And doesn't the ATF have the highest per-capita of amateur pilots out of all federal law enforcement agencies? Sounds like a fantastic use of their resources.
 
Actually, thats not true. Eventually, drying up the supply will help.
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Well, since a new AWB wouldn't do jack to dry up the supply even if it totally banned the manufacture of any new semi-automatic weapon, I'd say that his statement was totally true.
 
Introducing heavy-handed F-troop tactics into gun shows is not the answer, unless the question is "how can we further alienate Arizonans and the FedGov during a democratic administration?"
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Who is asking for heavy handed. Just a booth? Sort of like the cop on the corner.:D

I am more concerned about the dealers actually, since they screw things up for the rest of us.

WildauditthosebastidsAlaska ™
 
How bout we militarize the border? Every vehicle that crosses, in either direction gets searched for guns, drugs, and immigrants.
 
Actually, thats not true. Eventually, drying up the supply will help.
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That could take a very, very long time, and the powerful cartels will simply start getting AKs from third world. This approach to Mexican gun control is even more absurd and futile than the so-called war on drugs.

If you want to measure our likelihood of success in stemming the flow of guns even in to this country, post any new AWB, we need only examine our success rate in stemming the flow of illegals and millions of tons of drugs.

If the demand is high enough, the drugs, illegal immigrants, and guns will flow into and out of Mexico, and the US, in wholesale fashion.
 
auditthosebastids
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I don't like the idea of deliberate scofflaw dealers, but the ultimate problem is the straw purchaser, not the dealer.

Dealers can't know every purchaser that comes in. Just can't happen. There are dozens and dozens of gun stores in the Phoenix area, and were I the straw purchasing type, I could buy one gun a week to give to my drug buddies at a profit and not hit the same store again for a year.

Even if I have only a dozen stores I run my straw purchases thru, I won't end up at the same store again for 3 months.

How many repeat customers do you get every 3 months, WA? I have a hard time going 3 months without buying a gun to add to my collection.

The straw purchase elimination point is squarely in the hands of NICS and the ATF, seems to me. They should be able to see the same buyer hitting multiple or the same stores on a high volume basis, follow the 4473 trail at each of the stores, and notice that "Lucita Delacruz" is buying half a dozen Glock 19's a month.

Then the ATF can work with FBI or DEA and see if little Lucita has known associates with bad histories. Tail her for a bit and act if necessary.

Believe me... those of us down here who do sell guns from time to time in FTF transfers are not selling to illegals or drug runners. I've been asked for a CCW Permit to qualify for a purchase before, and I've also asked for them myself when selling.

God forbid the ATF does actual police work against bad guys rather than just stomping around at gun shows or hauling every byte of data possible back to their desks so they can datamine NICS for some poor sucker who just owns a lot of guns...

AZRedhawkpelosisaidenforcementfirstsoletsgetonthat44
 
I don't like the idea of deliberate scofflaw dealers, but the ultimate problem is the straw purchaser, not the dealer.
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Bull hockey pucks:D....straw men are so easy to spot its pathetic

Dealers can't know every purchaser that comes in. Just can't happen. There are dozens and dozens of gun stores in the Phoenix area, and were I the straw purchasing type, I could buy one gun a week to give to my drug buddies at a profit and not hit the same store again for a year.
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Those are the hard ones, agreed....and that is the job of ATF to ID those guns and talk to the shops nicely. But thats not theway they do it, they are far more blatant than that....

How many repeat customers do you get every 3 months, WA? I have a hard time going 3 months without buying a gun to add to my collection.
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I try to know everybody by name :)

The straw purchase elimination point is squarely in the hands of NICS and the ATF, seems to me. They should be able to see the same buyer hitting multiple or the same stores on a high volume basis, follow the 4473 trail at each of the stores, and notice that "Lucita Delacruz" is buying half a dozen Glock 19's a month.
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So we agree that audits are important?

WildiguesswedoAlaska ™
 
I don't have a problem with the ATF checking dealers.
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I believe under the current law ATF is limited in how often it can conduct dealers outside of an active third party investigation. This was a result of the 1986 FOPA. Prior to that, ATF had determined that while revoking an FFL's license was very difficult, it was no problem at all to audit him repeatedly until he went out of business.

On a side note, reading the footnotes of that article is like some kind of Orwellian nightmare. Can you imagine someone comes to you and asks you to make an illegal machinegun, you call the ATF to report them and YOU are the one who gets arrested and charged in court?
 
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