Higher end 1911's

B

BoogieMan

New member
I am prepared to drop some coin on another 1911. I love the platform.
I own a highly customized Kimber frame 1911/9 and an intact 41' Colt GI. I am thinking that I would like something in 45 that and off the shelf custom like a Wilson, Browne, Nighthawk, Guncrafters etc... I dont mind buying used as long as condition is VG. Can I get into any of these or other semi-customs around $2k-$2500?
 
$2k-$2500 probably isn't enough for a W.W. II vintage 1911A1. However, what you plan on doing with the thing matters most. That vintage 1911A1 is more a collector's piece than a shooter. The aftermarket clones are for shooting.
A Wilson 'Classic' starts at 3 grand BNIB. Those guys have a 'financing plan' with the First National Bank of North Arkansas. Geezuz. Even used on Gunbroker they're running over 3 grand.
You can have a used Ed Brown for about 2 grand though. Also on Gunbroker. Go shopping on the auction sites after looking at the assorted high end cloner sites so you know what BINB costs.
 
"Off the shelf custom"? So, you want high quality, but not custom at all.
I have handled and shot a few $3000-$4000 pistols from Nighthawk, as we used to have a local rep, and I've done the same with a buddy's Les Baer Thunder Ranch, which is closer to a $2000 pistol, and I don't know that I can appreciate the difference?
That said, I wouldn't spend more than $1000 for a gun that wasn't set up to my specific needs and wants; the whole idea of "production custom" is lost on me.
For instance, I prefer - insist on - an arched mainspring housing, and Wilson Combat does not make arched housings anymore, so you cannot specify an arched housing on your $4000 Wilson pistol; what sort of "custom" is that?
For that kind of money, the gun would have to be EXACTLY what I wanted.
If you are satisfied with one item from column A and one from column B, not a dig at you, then a high-end, not-really-custom might be just the ticket, as you won't have to wait two or three years for a top-notch 'smith's waiting list.
 
@TOheir- I think you misunderstood. I have a intact vintage 1911 and a full custom kimber. I am looking for a high quality off the shelf like a Wilson or LB etc... My question is can I get the build quality of those guns in the $2k+- range.
@RickB- Thank you for the info. I am looking for a high quality 1911. They sell them as off the shelf custom because they are low production guns. Baer doesnt make in 5 years what Ruger makes in a month. I cant justify in my mind going to a gunsmith and waiting. I own a machine shop and to me its like outsourcing work. I could build one complete custom if I took the time. Are you saying that you dont feel the OTS customs are worth the money they ask?
 
No matter how high the quality, I can't justify spending $3000 on a gun designed by and for someone else.
It's like ordering a $100,000 car that doesn't come in the color I want.
If you want what (apparently) 95% of the 1911 market demands - flat mainspring housing, Novak sights, forward cocking serrations, speed-bump beavertail, extended mag release, etc. - such that an off-the-shelf gun satisfies your needs, that's great.
 
BoogieMan said:
I am prepared to drop some coin on another 1911. I love the platform.

I own a highly customized Kimber frame 1911/9 and an intact 41' Colt GI. I am thinking that I would like something in 45 that and off the shelf custom like a Wilson, Browne, Nighthawk, Guncrafters etc... I dont mind buying used as long as condition is VG. Can I get into any of these or other semi-customs around $2k-$2500?
Click to expand...



For a Wilson, Guncrafter, Ed Brown, Nighthawk, absolutely.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I agree with RickB. Companies like Wilson Combat, Les Baer, Nighthawk Custom, and such are not custom builders. They are low-volume production builders, who sometimes offer a few options. There isn't a single pistol that any of them offer that I would want to own. For a quality production pistol, I'd buy a Colt. For a custom pistol, I'd probably go to Guncrafters, but not for one of his catalog models. I'd order a true custom. And I wouldn't expect to be able to get a custom 1911 made for anywhere near $2,000 -- which is why I don't own any custom 1911s.

Even outsourcing usually involves the buyer establishing the design, the specifications, and the tolerances. Buying an off-the-shelf model that somebody else designed and specified isn't outsourcing -- it's buying a commodity product.
 
Imo of the ones you listed, bear is the most reasonably priced for what you get. Yes im biased, have two and they are excellent. But they are also at the max id be willing to spend for that type of pistol (production custom or whatever we are calling it). If you want true custom you'll need to spend more then 3k. You may get it done for 4K but depends on what you want and it's likely much much more. Look at Chuck Rodgers or Ted yost and be prepared to wait forever. Many others that are superb but the wait and costs are all pretty high.

You could also try Harrison design. Very good option.
http://www.harrisoncustom.com/Services.aspx?cid=1
 
Aguila Blanca said:
They are low-volume production builders, who sometimes offer a few options.
Click to expand...




I thought the industry standard term was semi-custom. Why would you feel the need to redefine what they are. :confused:
 
I guess the industry standard term is semi-custom, but IMHO that's just as meaningless as the term "match grade barrel." These days it seems every $300 1911 claims to have a "match grade" barrel, but there is no industry standard for "match grade" so the term is just marketing hype.

The same applies to "semi-custom." It's like "pregnant" -- either someone is pregnant, or she's not. If a firearm is custom, it's custom -- one of a kind.. If it's not custom, it's production. Car manufacturers try to discourage it (and dealers try even harder to discourage it), but you can still order American cars optioned out to your exact choice -- as long as you choose options listed in the catalog. But even if you special order your dream-mobile, with exactly the color and option packages you and only you want, so your car is unique among all other vehicles of that brand -- it's not "custom," and it's not even "semi-custom." It's still a Ford or a Chevy or a Chrysler that rolled off the same production line as all other vehicles of that make and model.

I'm not trying to "redefine" what they call themselves, but I suppose I am trying to better define what they actually are.
 
Dan Wesson....a customized version of any model can be ordered around that pric....or a standard Valor, Specialist, etc may be just perfect.

Les Baer.....Great guns at or near that price with great blue or SS finishes.

Wilson....Fine guns, but there are real limitations in he areas of sights and finishes to get EXACTLY what you want. You will definitely be shopping the well used market.

Ed Brown....Another fine gun, just over this price new.

Springfield Armory Custom Shop models......a little lower price, but great guns....may have 1-2 MIM parts, but you likely could order MIM free, if it matters to you.

STI....good opportunity to get a 12-20 round 2011. These are very nice hi cap guns.
 
Id say in that budget range, i would go dan wesson, les baer, or springfield custom shop. Do some research and pick a manufacturer. The springfield will be able to build-to-order, the dan wesson and les baers are production guns but with very high quality parts and precise and near perfect fitting.
 
I have an older Springfield custom, excellent pistol. Would recommend highly, not on par with Les Baer but very close.
 
Before deciding on which "semi-custom/low volume production/production custom/off-the-shelf custom" (i.e., Wilson, Les Baer, Ed Brown, Nighthawk, etc.) pistol to buy, I'd do some serious research on which of these companies have the best/worst customer service reputation. Just from my somewhat cursory attention to this factor, there seems to be a fairly significant spread between them.
 
This is what works for me.

An off the shelf "custom" gun shoots 2"-3" groups at 25 yds.

My guns will shoot 2"-3" groups at 25 yds for $2000-$2500 less outlay.

I can buy a lot of shooting accessories and components with the difference.

One maker that has several options to choose from is STI. Their prices are where you are looking. They have an in house gunsmith that handles all issues, whatever they might be.

https://stiguns.com/
 
Can I get into any of these or other semi-customs around $2k-$2500?
Click to expand...
You bet!
I paid $2500 OTD each for my two used Ed Brown Executive Targets. $1900 and $2300 OTD for a couple new Les Baer Premier II's. And while I paid more for my Wilson Combat new, you can get a used Classic for around $2500.

BTW, a production gun comes pretty much one way - as built. A semi custom means you can order it with a variety of available options - Wilson combat offers the most. A true custom can be built any way you like it as long as the builder agrees. One thing to remember, even a custom made gun from a builder still starts with a standard frame, just like everyone else's. It just a matter of what "options" you make to the gun and how he builds it.

Jim
 
An off the shelf "custom" gun shoots 2"-3" groups at 25 yds.
Click to expand...
Maybe with an average shooter. They are much more capable and I can shoot mine much more accurate than that.
In fact, Wilson combat claims 1" at 25 yards with the right ammo and shooter.
Les Baer guarantees 3" at 50 yards on standard guns with an available option for 1.5" at 50 yards, again assuming the right ammo and equally good shooter.

There is a lot more to it then just accuracy but it still comes down to driving a KIA vs. BMW. Some folks like nicer things.

Jim
 
Nice way to sum it up Jim. I am aware of the marketing hype with all manufacturers. I called this a off the shelf custom because they do. I thought that would simplify the discussion. I received a PM with some info about a Wilson dealer semi-local. I am going to go check out what they have on the used market. I am really looking for the fit of the frame, slide, barrel and link. After that it's pretty much bolt on. Change beave tail or MS housing is a matter of ordering to taste and a few minutes of install. Also, I'm not sure I could define exactly what I want "off the cuff". But I will know when I see it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top