Help Me Understand the Comeback of 10mm

TruthTellers said:
How do you think I feel? :)

I bought a new Glock 35 two years ago because I wanted a .40 that was easy to convert to a 9mm. I could have just gotten a 10mm Glock instead, but at the time, reloading for 10mm wasn't on my mind. Seeing how it's coming back and seeing the versatility of it, I'm having second thoughts.

I mean, with the G35 it's still a great size for 9mm and .40 S&W. I know it will be reliable as the smaller magazines would probably wobble in the larger frame Glocks, but the 10mm is becoming more and more obvious as a better choice than .40 S&W.

BTW, you can convert any .45 ACP Glock to shoot 10mm with a barrel change and a stiffer recoil spring.
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I'm in the same boat. I have a G22, couple of G23, and G27, with a AA .22LR and 9mm barrel conversion for the G23s. And I was already handloading. From what I see the G29 would be a practical carry piece and the G20 would be good for home or woods. Lately I have been thinking I should have gone with the 10mm and have everything I have with the .40 PLUS full power 10mm for woods carry/camping.

BUT, at the time the 10mm was waning and brass was not easy to find. But a .40 conversion barrel would have solved that, since for the woods I don't need thousands of cases for reloading. Probably a couple of hundred 10mm cases would have held me over for many years. I am |-| close to getting a G20gen4.
 
Commercial loads don't exist for the 10mm powerhouses.

Speer's "Bonded" bullet is an older technology predating the Gold Dot. Speer's Gold Dot load just came out last month with a 200gr Gold Dot at 1100FPS. Speer/CCI (also owned by Vista that owns American Eagle-it's not ATK) knows what their doing. Gold Dots probably fail at higher FPS-ie come apart.

The ammo quest on 10mm showed it well. The 160gr 10mm Speer Bonded bullet nearly comes apart. You aren't gaining anything by having to drive a cruddier technology faster when the performance is the same.

There isn't a premium self defense round in 10mm that needs to be 10mm hot and XTPs that are loaded for 10mm aren't great for it either as the round is a hunting round (Xtreme Penetration in the title).

Range fodder is the S&B 10mm 180gr. Those are about right at 40 levels. So $16 a box online to shoot 40 in a larger framed gun. Na. Pass.

If you make your own fine. But the market really doesn't support 10mm with a bullet worth buying in 10mm.
 
agtman said:
Because references to the .45 Super don't answer the O.P.'s question, which was about the 10mm's resurgence ... Just a guess there. :rolleyes:



Dude, the 10mm has been the "new next best thing" since 1983; it's been in resurgence since at least 2003; and factory 10mm ammo can be found on the shelf of virtually every gun store in the U.S. of A., which ain't the case with the .45Super.
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Dude, it never surged, so how could it resurge?
And yes, it's all about sales volume.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
Dude, it never surged, so how could it resurge?
And yes, it's all about sales volume.
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Dude, do the research.

You're wrong on both points, and your tyro posts in this thread identify you as a caliber toolbot. :rolleyes:

Focus, dude, this shizznitz ain't rocket science.
 
I don't know anyone who buys a 10mm SOLELY for the purpose of defense against other persons. As pointed out there are plenty of adequate loads in several calibers that fit in smaller platforms. I think the RE-surgence is due to more interest in the 10mm as an outdoor defense/hunting cartridge. That is where the factory ammo is hot loaded with hardcast, XTP and FMJFP bullets.

And there is no doubt the cartridge is growing in popularity as there are more and more 10mm pistols being released. Today there are many more brands and models of 10mm than there were 15 yrs ago.

It started off with a bang as a human self defense load mainly due to Jeff Cooper's endorsement and FBI INITIAL endorsement, aka S&W 1076. The release of the Glock 20 helped in the beginning. Then when everyone realized it was not practical at full loads for department use it got downloaded and then there was no reason for it over the same load in .40S&W. But due to multiple small ammo manufacturers developing hunting/bear loads with full pressure and hard bullets it slowly starting regaining some ground and then pistol mfgrs got on board. Today it is rising in popularity as more guys would prefer to carry a 10mm hot loaded into the woods than a heavier and bulkier M29 or Redhawk in .44Mag (whether right or wrong doesn't matter).
 
reddog81 said:
Most people like 10MM because it's the most powerful of the common auto-loader rounds. The people buying 10MM aren't concerned whether the recoil is more of a push or a shove. The Glock model 40 is arguably the most powerful handgun when you combine number of rounds with the power of the round.

If you want something cheap and easy to shoot 10MM isn't the round for you. If your an experienced pistol shooter and want something powerful but don't want to dive into boutique rounds the 10MM is a great option.

Another reason people like 10MM is because it's a versatile round with some loads only slightly more powerful than 40 S&W while some of the ammo out there is substantially more powerful
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Great explanation. I could not have said it better.
 
So if anything, the history 10mm shows 9mm is it for personal defense.

Currently, there isn't a commercial bullet designed for hot 10mm FPS. The Gold Dot factory load works and works at .40 level FPS.

Speer "bonded" by BB, DT, and Underwood is older Gold Dot technology. So same results at the cost of having to go hotter.

Anything else (hard cast, FMJ, XTP) isn't ideal for personal defense but hunting--really questionable if anything needs it specifically too let alone the view that offer at hot loads too.
 
Anything else (hard cast, FMJ, XTP) isn't ideal for personal defense but hunting--really questionable if anything needs it specifically too let alone the view that offer at hot loads too.
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Wrong on both points.

FMJ and hard cast boolits in various cartridges have been used for personal defense for well over a century. E.g., USGI 230gn .45acp ball ammo has been putting bad guys and enemy combatants down since WW1, and it still does today.

The 10mm was introduced in 1983; the .40 not until 1990. After the 1986 FBI shoot-out in Miami, the Bureau's policy mantra became "penetration first, last, and always." They then adopted the 10mm cartridge, and bullet-makers, like Hornady, responded with highly penetrative projectiles like the XTP. Federal introduced the first pistol ammo in 10mm with a bonded bullet, a 190gn JHP (loaded @ 1050fps from the 4.25" S&W 1076, which was the Bureau sidearm back then).

You need to actually know the history of the 10mm before spouting off.

Early 10mm.40-cal bullets, like Winchester's 175gn STHP at just shy of 1300fps, were introduced during the initial "full-power" era of 10mm ammo and were strictly intended to be defensive, anti-personnel rounds, like the XTP-HP. Any thought as to how such projectiles might fare in the fields and forests as a handgun "hunting" round came later and was a totally secondary use.

As Col. Jeff Cooper put it during the mid-'80s, the 10mm AUTO was "intended from the ground up" to be the premier "combat" pistol cartridge, the "heir apparent" to the .45acp, of which he had once been the Big Guru.
 
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Cooper also admitted, late in life, that "10mm hits at 75 yards like .45 does across a room" doesn't really matter when self-defense actions don't take place at 75 yards.
200 grains @ 1000 fps, which was what Cooper ordered, could have been the next great service pistol round, but D&D and Norma sort of messed it up and we got a "magnum", instead.
 
I don't understand the hubbub over 10mm velocity HP and why anyone thinks they need super duper technology to be effective. The .357 mag 125 gr JHP has a pretty good record of doing the job for several decades and it is a light-midweight for caliber bullet. And it established its reputation before gen2, gen3, or bonded HP.

I agree that few major manufacturers, if any, have offered a JHP bullet in a full house load in 10mm. But I am suspicious of any claim that GoldDot, Hydrashoks, or any other JHP would not be effective for personal defense at full velocities, especially the 180-200 gr bullets. They may break up, but I suspect a .357 mag pushing a 125 gr 1stgen HP would be just as likely to break up. Personally I don't want to be shot with either, but forced to choose I think the 180 gr 10mm Hydrashok at equal velocity to the .357 would be measurably more damaging.

I don't even own a 10mm but it sure seems like a versatile cartridge and I would not hesitate to use it for personal defense in ANY loading.
 
That's fine about FMJ being used for defense.

I think everyone would take HST 9mm over 10mm FMJ any day of the week for defense...and the US and local law enforcement did.

I think I actually know more about bullet technology than I was casted to not knowing. For example Underwood and BB use "Bonded" Speer bullets. These are listed in Speer's inventory online. They are also pre Gold Dots. Gold Dots are Speer's premium round. Not Bonded. They don't get the size Gold Dots do at the same depth.
 
I think I actually know more about bullet technology than I was casted to not knowing. For example Underwood and BB use "Bonded" Speer bullets. These are listed in Speer's inventory online. They are also pre Gold Dots. Gold Dots are Speer's premium round. Not Bonded. They don't get the size Gold Dots do at the same depth.
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Not quite.

Underwood and DT use the same Speer Gold Dot "Bonded" bullets that are available at retail for all reloaders to use.

I have several boxes of them on my bench right now and they are the same.

The "Bonded" part is what Speer calls the Gold Dot. It is a Bonded Bullet Design.

Some people take issue with the construction of Speer bullets as they are basically a "Heavily Plated" bullet and are not Copper Jacketed like other bullets. They are in fact Bonded by design and perform accordingly.
 
They are not the same. Different part number.

It's "Gold Dot" vs "Speer Bonded Unicore Hollow Point" that later had a name change but is the same bullet and still cheaper than the true Gold Dots.

They are different. Speer Bonded Unicore Hollow Point came first. Gold Dot is the superior bullet and performs better than the Speer Bonded Unicore Hollow Point.

Anyone can see for themselves.
https://www.speer-ammo.com/bullets/handgun-bullets?bulletstyle=hollow-point

Look at the photos. One hollow point is a nice hollow point the other is a nice hollow point with cuts that extend past the top of the bullet--that's a true Gold Dot.

This is a Gold Dot: https://www.speer-ammo.com/bullets/...t-personal-protection/400/400-165-gdhp-bullet

This is not a Gold Dot, though it is named one:https://www.speer-ammo.com/bullets/...t-personal-protection/400/400-155-gdhp-bullet

There is a significant and visible difference.
 
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Gold Dot bullets have a different appearance depending on weight and caliber but they are designed to give the same terminal performance for their respective size and velocity.

I have 124g Gold Dot bullets for the 9mm, and 300g Gold Dot bullets for the 454/460. They are both Gold Dots, and they are both bonded bullets.

I just looked in my Speer Reloading #14 and they list all the bullets Speer makes in .400" and there is a grand total of two bullets for each weight: Gold Dot, and Total Metal Jacket.

Both are lead bullets that are plated with a thick layer of copper and are considered to be "bonded" bullets.

All bullets sold by Speer that are called "Gold Dot" are Uni-Cor designs and are the same with the exceptions that I mentioned above.

Speer does still sell a few Cup and Core bullets with a non bonded copper jacket but they are not available in the .400" caliber.
 
If you Google Wayback the 2009 website catalog, you can see there is a difference.

When Vista bought Speer from ATK, the website was changed.

Bonded bullets are called Gold Dots, but they weren't previously called that. The difference is the visible cuts in the copper. The "gold dot" in the center is present, but the cuts in the copper matter.
 
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