Help Me Understand the Comeback of 10mm

Attempting to compare 45 acp vs 10mm recoil objectively ...
http://www.shooterscalculator.com/recoil-calculator.php

2.5# firearm weight for 1911
Actual power charge for 10mm handloads, 45 acp estimated from AA manual

10mm Handload 180 Gold Dot @ 1,152 fps / 531# KE - recoil energy 8.1 - PF 207
10mm Handload 180 Nosler @ 1,228 fps / 603# KE - recoil energy 9.2 - PF 221
10mm Handload Nosler 150 JHP @ 1,402 fps / 655# KE - recoil energy 9.4 - PF 210

45 acp Federal 230 HST @ 891 fps / 406# KE - recoil energy 7.8 - PF 205
45 acp Winchester 230 Ranger T @ 915 fps / 428# KE - recoil energy 8.2 - PF 210
45 acp Remington Golden Saber 185 +P @ 1,157 fps / 550# KE - recoil energy 9.0 - PF 214

My moderate 180 gr. Gold Dot 10mm load doesn't produce any more recoil than 45 acp Ranger T but generates about 20% more KE

Increasing the power (powder) a bit, the Nosler 180 recoil is comparable to 45 acp +P but 10mm delivers more KE.

Extra round capacity, more KE, and subjectively not much difference in recoil.
I'm not after nuclear loads, the loads I made suit me; however, next time I load the 180 Gold Dot it will be same power (powder) as the 180 Nosler.
 
There's also just a whole lot of fun firing semi-autos with "Magnum" rounds...
kind of like going from an M16A1 to an M60E3...just puts a grin on yer mug :D
10mm, .45-Super, & .50AE are just a BLAST!!! Literally even ;)

Having a wide variety of pistols in the safe means options...iron sights are iron sights,
if you do the same thing every time with every shot, the bullet will land where you
aimed it, no matter which pistol you pick up, as long as the sights are set correctly.

How each individual handles recoil varies as well...a big gorilla like me will be
somewhat less affected by recoil, say than by my 5'9 Wife. She'll take a 9mm
and party on, but a 10mm or .44Mag ain't her cup O' tea at all.

So it's no surprise when one sees 10mm's that have hardly been fired for the
last 30 years in a pawn shop/gun shop...beautiful condition Colt Delta Elites and
S&W 10xx series pistols show up all the time...barely look touched! Made for
great deals for some of us, until the Internet took off ;)
 
It Was Never Gone ...

10mm's "Comeback"...

After having been officially declared a 'Dead Round" only about 56 times since the early '90s, :rolleyes: .... you'd think folks would wake up and smell the 10mm coffee.

Truthfully, the cartridge has been resurgent since at least the early 2000s, after a long, sad, and frankly unnecessary, "watering-down" period through the 1990s.

That resurgence more or less began with (1) the return of access to full-throttle 10mm ammo from certain smaller, so-called 'boutique' ammo companies whose owners appreciated the cartridge loaded to its original specs (anyone remember a now-defunct company called Texas Ammo, which was pre-DT/BB/UW?), and (2) the literal explosion of the internet (primarily through the mechanism of online gunboards) as an easily-accessed means for the shooting community to exchange and vet information about the 10mm cartridge and the guns that were then chambered for it.

One after another, the old myths - started by gun-rag writers back in the '80s - got exposed as such and exploded on the gunboards as folks who bought a Glock or a Delta Elite, or a pre-owned S&W 10XX-series or 610 wheelie, could find out for themselves what the 10mm AUTO was capable of, and then get online and share that information.

Today we have more gunmakers chambering more handguns in 10mm than ever before. Norma first introduced the round in 1983, and it looks like the cartridge will only gain in popularity as the .40's continues to fade.

A shooter can own a 9mm pistol, and then switch right to his 10mm gun from which to shoot either the hot, full-power loads or - with the swap of a barrel in his Glock (or 10mm 1911) - he can shoot factory .40 ammo.

Or, if he reloads, he can simply 'download' his handloads to milder ".40-ish" ballistics for practice sessions.

So, tell me again, ... what's not to like about the 10mm AUTO? :cool:
 
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Can anyone in the retail world speak to actual sales figures for 10mm pistols? I completely agree that more manufacturers are making 10mm than at least I can remember in 10 years or so. But I’m curious how well that translates into pistols sold. Currently I see manufacturers doing just about anything to capture any sales out there as, best as I can tell, the overall market is relatively weak. But I wonder how many of these are sold? My other question is how many of these pistols will be retained, as in will we see a bunch of 10mm pistols on used shelves in stores as novices run out to buy what their favorite YouTube star likes only to find that off the shelf ammo is relatively expensive and the recoil is more than they anticipated. The long time 10mm fans are an exception to this.


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10MM is a luxury round. After almost a decade of stagnant economic growth and wages things are headed in the right direction again.
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You mean for the economy, ... or for the 10mm? :confused:

'Cause you don't have to be in a rich guy's tax bracket to get into the 10mm. ;)
 
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If you don't reload, and the vast majority of shooters do not, it is a whole lot more expensive than 9mm.
Most companies don't make products for the small percentage of shooters who reload.
 
Down here many use the 10mm with stout loads to hunt with . We're overrun with hogs & the deer for the most part are small . Thick piney woods & river bottoms , short range shots on moving targets . I've always used a RBH in 41mag & picked up a Henry lever gun also 41mag . Also shot more than my share with 357mag & 38-44 . Perhaps they're worried about being outflanked by viscous swine in thick cover . If we all liked the same things we'd still be driving Model T's in black.........
 
the 10mm semi auto handgun would be a excellent choice for a carry gun in Bear Country

but I would prefer a rifle and a handgun as my back up, something thats with me at all times.

has anyone ever fired full power loads from a semi auto 10mm handgun without hearing protection? I bet it would be extra loud / ear piercing? thats another reason some people dont carry the 10mm , it would be ear deafening if you ever had to use it without ear protection.
 
When hiking with my children I used to carry a Ruger SP101 in .357 with heavy loads in the off-chance we annoyed a bear.

The reality is I am more concerned about a pack of coyotes and the 5 shot revolver was just not giving me warm tingly feelings.

11 shots in a G29 gives me roughly the same size and weight firearm with twice the capacity and a far quicker reload and the same overall "power spectrum" that the .357 did (I don't buy into the argument the 10MM is equal to the .41 Magnum).
 
(I don't buy into the argument the 10MM is equal to the .41 Magnum)
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Me either, I don't even understand where this comes from. The 10mm BARELY equals the 357 Magnum, it not in the same league as the 41 Rem Mag.

Disclaimer: I hand load and shoot both cartridges and like them both plenty.
 
I get where it came from. The hottest 10MM loads are in the neighborhood of some “normal” factory .41 loads but it never gets to hot .41. The 10mm and .357 are pretty similiar from factory to top loads. The 10MM to .41 comparison though does not seem fully honest
 
https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2018...-the-right-gun-10mm-isn-t-that-hard-to-shoot/

Personally, it's for them bears terrorizing the USA now. In NJ (oh, you can't have a handgun there), a guy came home with a bag of meatball subs and a bear knocked him over and took the subs. You have to be ready for that.

Seriously, with the right load, some folks say it is a good back up gun for bear country. Now, I have no expertise on that matter but I read it somewhere. Supposedly, the Norwegian and Danish game warden types do this.

Anybody mention this new revolver:

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2017/12/12/first-look-ruger-super-redhawk-in-10mm-auto/
 
Being a .40 S&W guy I had to take a long, hard look at the bigger brother 10mm last year after I really got into reloading ammunition because, realistically, if you want to shoot 10mm Auto at the higher power ranges for practice, you have to be rich or reload. Most of the factory target ammo for 10mm is not much more powerful than .40 S&W is and it costs more.

I'm not rich and I do reload, so a 10mm and it's greater power compared to .40 and .45 ACP interests me more than the more niche cartridges like .460 Rowland, which is more expensive to reload because the brass and bullets aren't as common.

I think the reason why you're seeing so many new 10mm's at SHOT is there's a void in the market and manufacturers are looking to cash in on that lack of guns in 10mm. When it comes to 10mm carbines, that void grows ever larger. Out of a 16 inch barrel, the hot 10mm hits impressive levels of energy. I'm hoping Ruger comes out with some 10mm carbine that takes Glock mags.

Is .40 going to die? No because a .40 is still more powerful than a 9mm and it comes in the same size pistols. Police, IMO, don't have a use for a 10mm unless they live in Alaska or the Rocky Mtns or northern New England where they might come across some big animals that might not like them. Otherwise, the .40 has been around for almost 30 years and has been used by police very successfully.

LE departments are just moving to 9mm for cost reasons. Maybe also for logistical reasons in case they have to be rolled into service with the military/national guard during potential national crises. If we start hearing more departments going to the P320, that will only confirm that.

10mm really is just the modern .45 ACP. Higher mag capacity, flatter trajectory for longer ranges, performs well either loaded light or hot, and if run in large enough batches, costs less than .45 ACP due to less lead, copper, and brass being used.

10mm is easily converted to .40 S&W, heck it can shoot .40 without any conversion barrel or spring changes, and it's also able to convert to a 9mm. I have yet to see a .45 ACP that can convert to a 9mm and be a reliable shooter.

There's a lot of reasons 10mm is coming back. It has all the strengths of the .45 ACP and more, yet none of the weaknesses.
 
johnwilliamson062 said:
If you don't reload, and the vast majority of shooters do not, it is a whole lot more expensive than 9mm.
Most companies don't make products for the small percentage of shooters who reload.
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Besides .22, there's nothing compared to 9mm that's the same price that's also much more powerful than 9mm.

So, if people want a much more powerful handgun, they have to look at 10mm or larger in a pistol. 10mm may be expensive, but it's not crazy expensive to shoot because you can shoot cheaper .40 S&W in it.
 
"heck it can shoot .40 "

It might be more accurate to say it might shoot .40.

Unlike .38's in a .357 revolver, which headspace on the rim, and give a solid index for the case/primer and firing pin/hammer, the .40 and the 10mm headspace on the casemouth. All that holds the .40 case against the breechface on a 10mm pistol is the extractor and its fit to the extraction groove. Given the tolerance stacking possible from gun to gun, extractor dimensions , firing pin protrusion, primer pocket depth, primer seating depth, extraction groove dimensions (given assorted cases) , a .40 case might fire in a 10mm........and it might not.

Too, I know of no manufacturer that advises that .40 S&W may be fired in their 10mm pistol, but of course some say factory ammo only, so we know they play it conservative. Never the less, firing a cartridge in a handgun not so marked and chambered gives me the creeps. I'd rather spend the money and buy a drop in barrel.
 
Warren and Dobbs, the 10mm and big game

If you want to see good shots put the 10mm to work on big game, check out the Youtube videos of Keith Warren and Razor Dobbs. These guys shoot well, and they are on guided hunts, but their films are good examples of what the 10mm is capable of, in good hands, shot well with good loads, and at reasonable ranges. Hogs, whitetail, nilgai, and wildebeast.
 
I get where it came from. The hottest 10MM loads are in the neighborhood of some “normal” factory .41 loads but it never gets to hot .41. The 10mm and .357 are pretty similiar from factory to top loads. The 10MM to .41 comparison though does not seem fully honest
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At one point I did a thorough survey of all commercially available .357Mag, 10mm and .41Mag ammo.

The .357Mag and 10mm were very close in terms of momentum and energy while the .41Mag topped out WELL above either one in terms of both.

The comparison came about because of one particular loading. When the 10mm was still pretty new, there weren't a lot of different loadings for it. One of the loadings was the Winchester Silvertip. As it happened, there is also a Winchester Silvertip loading for the .41Mag, and when the two are compared the 10mm loading was actually a little hotter than the .41Mag. What wasn't immediately clear from that comparison was that the 10mm Winchester STHP loading was near the top end of the 10mm power scale and the Winchester STHP loading for the .41Mag was near the bottom end of the power scale for that caliber.

But the comparison stuck and people have been citing it ever since.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5114597&postcount=22
 
bamaranger said:
It might be more accurate to say it might shoot .40.

Unlike .38's in a .357 revolver, which headspace on the rim, and give a solid index for the case/primer and firing pin/hammer, the .40 and the 10mm headspace on the casemouth. All that holds the .40 case against the breechface on a 10mm pistol is the extractor and its fit to the extraction groove. Given the tolerance stacking possible from gun to gun, extractor dimensions , firing pin protrusion, primer pocket depth, primer seating depth, extraction groove dimensions (given assorted cases) , a .40 case might fire in a 10mm........and it might not.

Too, I know of no manufacturer that advises that .40 S&W may be fired in their 10mm pistol, but of course some say factory ammo only, so we know they play it conservative. Never the less, firing a cartridge in a handgun not so marked and chambered gives me the creeps. I'd rather spend the money and buy a drop in barrel.
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Indeed, may be able to shoot .40 is better. Sorry, when the topic of 10mm comes up I instantly think about Glocks, which I've seen being shot with .40 trouble free.

says who? Where is it stated from any manufacturer that you can shoot 40 S&W in it?
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Aftermarket conversion barrels are a topic most manufacturer's don't like to make people aware of.

I'd say if someone is looking at a 10mm and wants to shoot a lot of factory ammo in it, but not necessarily the most powerful stuff, buying a .40 S&W barrel would be a good idea and pay for itself quickly.
 
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