Help Me Understand the Comeback of 10mm

There are too many market drivers to come up with just one reason. .40 S&W prospered for several reasons, but the advent of Production, Carry Optics and PCC (all 9mm dominated) in USPSA has ushered in a decline is the use of .40s. The FBI leaving .40 S&W has ushered in a decline in the use of .40s. The improvement in the factory loadings of 9mm has ushered in a decline in the use of .40s. The CCW crowd desire of small pistols has ushered in a decline in the use of .40s. The .40 was largely responsible for the decline in the use of .45s.

The 10mm (at a higher pressure and efficiency than the .45 ACP, even in +P dress) is the most powerful economical and available factory guns and ammo auto pistol cartridge in the market. When you can have 400 horse instead of 300 horse, some just like it more. It is also (in many states) legal for hunting while .45, .40 and 9mm are not.

Yes, I like the 10mm, always have. My 610, Razorback, G20SF and AR10mm are powerful, accurate and fun. 9mm is my most used caliber followed by .223, and I only have 2 .40s left with a bunch of components. But if I am not going to shoot 9mm, I just go straight to 10mm. Of the calbers I own, the .40 gets used the least since about 2015. Prior to that, it was the caliber I shot the most for 20 years or so.
 
reddog81 said:
Most people like 10MM because it's the most powerful of the common auto-loader rounds. The people buying 10MM aren't concerned whether the recoil is more of a push or a shove. The Glock model 40 is arguably the most powerful handgun when you combine number of rounds with the power of the round.

If you want something cheap and easy to shoot 10MM isn't the round for you. If your an experienced pistol shooter and want something powerful but don't want to dive into boutique rounds the 10MM is a great option.

Another reason people like 10MM is because it's a versatile round with some loads only slightly more powerful than 40 S&W while some of the ammo out there is substantially more powerful
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I agree, well said. :cool:
 
What's not to like? .357Magnum ballistics wrapped up in a decent sized autopistol package. The mystery is why it's not more popular.

The .40S&W was always a compromise package. Not as much capacity as a 9mm, not as much performance as a 10mm. Once its primary reason for popularity (issue by the FBI) went away, its popularity naturally declined.
 
I still have around here someplace a 1983 issue of one of the gun magazines where they reviewed the Bren Ten and the 10mm cartridge. I remember coming across it recently and thinking, "Hey whatever happened to the 10mm?" and re-reading the article.

The article abandoned all objectivity and effusively praised the cartridge and the Bren Ten gun that was to shoot it. I can characterize the tone of the article as saying that Jeff Cooper, Pope of all things handgun, had finally led us from our wandering in the desert of "puny" 9mm and "slow" 45 ACP rounds and into the new 10mm promised land. Pope Cooper had finally blessed all "real" shooters with a hand-held elephant gun from which animals would just spontaneously drop dead in homage and from which bad guys would flee in terror.

The launch of the cartridge, however, was marred by problems with the Bren Ten. Other manufacturers did take up the caliber, but momentum was lost. Publicity from the FBI hastily adopting it in the wake of the final report of the 1986 shooting in Dade County, Florida, followed by its almost as rapid dropping of the cartridge didn't help its reputation. It has existed as pretty much a niche cartridge ever since.

It seems every few years someone in the gun press "rediscovers" the 10mm and it enjoys a brief flourish of popular interest before the reality of punishing recoil, high round cost and the fact its size makes the guns too big for the hands of about 30% of the population, together conspire drive it back to its niche.
 
10mm PCCs are a part of the resurgence, but many of the companies trying to make them don't get it. The CMMG, or a DI gun is the answer, not blowback.
 
Kvon2 said:
I promise I am not trying to spark a caliber war, I know its been done.

It seems 10mm is the caliber of shot show this year and people are really excited about it. Having no experience with 10mm, I have to admit, I'm confused.

The .40sw seems to be on a decline in favor of the 9mm for reasons of cost, easier recoil, faster follow up shots, capacity, etc...

So people don't like the .40sw because of the reasons I listed above, yet 10mm is now the craze?

For those with 10mm experience, how does the recoil compare to that of a 40sw? If it is more of a push and less of a snap(how I would compare a 45 to a 40) then I guess I understand some of the praise.

Thoughts?
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because people are finally seeing the 10mm for what it was originally intended for, a more powerful semi-auto handgun. The 40 does not compare to the 10, and was invented as a solution looking for a problem. When people think about the 10mm they need to think out of the self defense only box, its versatility is where it excels.
 
Peple dump too much on the 40. It does what its designed to do which is provide 45acp energy in a 9mm frame sized pistol. So 15rds vs 17rds in a full sized pistol (or 12 vs 13 in my hk usp compact)....

Now I have 3 10mm pistols, a gen2 glock 20 and a pair of eaa witnesses. Good pistols but definitely not cheap to fire. I haven't handled a glock 40 but I think that would be my vote as a longer slide with more mass should be just the ticket for properly handling those hot rounds. Double recoil springs also are good things for 10mm (I should put those in my witnesses as they are the older ones).
 
10mm PCCs are a part of the resurgence, but many of the companies trying to make them don't get it. The CMMG, or a DI gun is the answer, not blowback.
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I agree. A lot of shooters and "experts" don't get it either. I don't know if DI is the only answer, but blowback certainly isn't.
Peple dump too much on the 40. It does what its designed to do which is provide 45acp energy in a 9mm frame sized pistol.
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There's nothing wrong with the 40S&W, but let's be honest about what made it so popular.

Higher energy in a 9mm sized package was not the real reason for the 40S&W's popularity. If that were the case, the .41Action Express would have filled that slot before the .40S&W was ever invented. It was developed to do exactly what the .40S&W did.

The reason the .40S&W succeeded where the .41AE had previously failed was all about the FBI and U.S. LE.
 
JohnKSa, the CMMG is a delayed rotating bolt. We are seeing folks with all kinds of issues with power levels (soft 9mm loads) that are half that of the 10mm.
 
More shooters are moving away from full size magnum revolvers and toward semi-auto pistols. The 10mm offers magnum revolver power in a 10-15 shot semi-auto pistol of reasonable size, weight and cost.

I can't say why everyone else is buying them, but this is why I bought a G20 years ago and added a G29 more recently. I spend a fair amount of time hiking and camping in areas where bear are common and bear-human interactions are becoming more and more common.

I could choose to carry a 357 or 44 magnum revolver, but my G29 is a full pound lighter and 2" shorter than my magnum revolvers with 4" barrels. And it holds 11 or 16 rounds depending on the magazine I have in it.

Loaded with 200 Gr DoubleTap ammo @ 1300 fps it will slightly beat anything from a 4" 357 mag and isn't that far behind 44 mag from a 4" barrel. Published ballistics for the magnum revolvers are from 8" barrels and with those barrels they are in another class. But most people don't carry around 8" barreled revolvers so the real world numbers are closer than a lot realize.

With lighter bullet weights and more moderate loadings 10mm is versatile enough to be every bit as effective as a personal defense weapon vs human threats. Even when I'm in bear country I still feel the bigger threat is from 2 legged predators and I'd rather have 15-16 rounds from a semi-auto.

If I'm not in bear country, even in the woods I'd just as soon carry one of my 9mm pistols. But the 10 is so versatile.
 
Hey jmr40

You're fortunate to live in a state that I presume still allows AR's to be owned and carried. If just out meandering in the woods enjoying nature, the AR I can't own in the state I'm in-guess where that is? need a hint? the land of the fruits and nuts! You can bet I would have the AR slung over my shoulder with a couple 30 rnd. clips on my belt. Two or four footed vermin-watch out!

Be aware and always vigilant about whom you elect for office or you will soon be in an environment that is hell bent on doing away with your 2A rights!
 
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I like jmr40's post. In my personal ramblings when I was covering a lot of ground on foot, I wanted a powerful handgun, I graduated from a
4" .357 revolver, to a 6" M29, which was a lot more gun, but I found cumbersome to carry. Next came a 4" Mtn Gun in .44, which carried easier. But then I bought a G20, and basically have retired my magnum revolvers. More compact, lighter, it offers more rounds in hand, with mag revolver power.
So gimpy these days I don't hoof it like I used to, but the G20 is a great serious woods pistol.

I think too ballistics sell, and though the numbers are not vast, the 10mm is on paper the most powerful conventional, reasonably sized autopistol, and sells to many folks for just that reason.
 
It gives you a revolver powered caliber in a auto pistol. You get the best of
both worlds, power, compact (full) pistol size, and the benefit of magazines for
reloads.
 
More MFR's are making 10mm pistols now than ever before...and selling the
heck out of 'em while they're at it :)
Used to be, in the 90's, you had 4 choices...Bren, Star, S&W, and Colt.
Now there's over 20, including SIG!

I love 10mm because I can walk into the woods with JUST it, and leave with either
a deer or a hog. Both if I do my part in good shooting and call a friend with a truck ;)
Also makes for mighty good defense against a Florida Black Bear.

G20SF works mighty well with a 9" Lone Wolf Barrel and a supressor.
Capable of holding 17+1 if you use the mag extenders. They work just fine :)

Currently searching for the right deal on a Star Megastar in 10mm...
have the .45 version, which can utilize either .45acp or .45-Super,
and it's a Bowling Pin murderer with Super's :D

It's definitely a Pistoleer's round, it ain't for beginners, and it helps to have
pretty strong hands if one plants on shooting more than a box of 50 at the range ;)
Recoil is managable in a Glock or Megastar, can head straight towards painful with a Delta Elite.
 
Perhaps “comeback” isn't the right word. It never really went away even though most of the guns were discontinued. Nor was it ever especially popular. It's not clear if the near disappearance of the guns was due to lack of sales or warranty costs. Many people found the ammo too expensive, and uncomfortable to shoot with full power loads. Plus, the guns just didn't hold up well when using full power ammo (except for the Glock), and I suspect warranty costs were high. I wouldn't be surprised if it all happens again.

There is nothing wrong with the cartridge. But it isn't a low recoil cartridge like the 9mm that most anybody can shoot with a little practice. And it's pressure/power is more than what most guns designed around the 9mm Luger or 45 Automatic can successfully harness.

I pick up brass at a local outdoor range. Of the many thousands of empty brass I've picked up, I can count on one hand the 10mm empties I've accumulated. That provides a pretty good reflection of the 10mm. Not many shoot it, and those that do pick up their brass and reload it due to ammo cost. It may just be one of the many good cartridges that never becomes popular.
 
In my personal ramblings when I was covering a lot of ground on foot, I wanted a powerful handgun, I graduated from a 4" .357 revolver, to a 6" M29, which was a lot more gun, but I found cumbersome to carry. Next came a 4" Mtn Gun in .44, which carried easier. But then I bought a G20, and basically have retired my magnum revolvers. More compact, lighter, it offers more rounds in hand, with mag revolver power.
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Yep there's a lot of truth in that statement...weight on the belt is a big item and in reality, about as important to the average guy toting a handgun as is cartridge effectiveness. With modern, boutique bullets at a buck a piece, you can almost have your cake and eat it too....penetration, expansion, good capacity all in a gun that's controllable and concealable!

My gripe (and I don't own one) is that the 10mm ammunition is so expensive that you'd better be a home caster and handloader to feed it enough to gain proficiency...much like the .41 magnum (which I do own...several in fact). Pick you poison, but you'd better hit the lottery if you intend to shoot a 10mm much.

One way around the above dilemma is to buy a .40 S&W bbl. from Storm Lake and shoot the .40 for proficiency...cheaper by far...and save the 10 for serious social purposes.

JMHO, Rod
 
3 primary reasons

1- relatively inexpensive, durable platform = Glock20/29

2- Mike McNette = Started DoubleTap - Prior to doing so, was publishing loads that screamed in the 10mm from his stock G20, 29 and Contender barrel when all other manufacturers were producing loads equal to the 40SW.

3- manufacturers are finally producing rounds exploiting its potential, thanks to Mike opening the door.

But, you have to understand why it died, before understanding how it came back.

When it was first introduced you [basically] had 1 bullet manufacturer, Norma.
The Bren Ten [original platform] was plagued with production and supply problems. Early adaptations of the pistol from SW, Colt, etc were getting battered in FBI tests and the agents had a difficult time handling the recoil in a 1911 style pistol.

Because of it's early issues of battering guns, few manufacturers produced the round and reloading manuals had the 10mm loaded with velocities just over 40SW loads. My 3rd Edition Sierra manual list 1100fps as max for the 10 shot in a Delta Elite.

When the Glock 20 was introduced, it was the perfect platform, as it withstood the pressures. When Mike started to experiment with various powders, [and didn't kill himself, blow up guns, worry about "smiles" and ended up starting a company], others followed suit. Now you have a few companies putting out screaming loads.

As has been mentioned, there will always be a segment of the population that desire power - even if only "potential" power. The 10 was suppose to answer the question, "which was better, the 9 or 45?" The full power 10, with a properly designed bullet will due that. NOT because it's significantly more powerful than a +p 180 or 200 from a 45, but because it also offers higher capacity.
 
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