I only use gun grease on my rails on all of my semi's. It's all I've ever used. I use it because grease stays where you put it and continues to lube long after oil has dissipated. After a trip, or two, or three to the range, when I break down my guns, I always find grease right where I put it on the rails. I use Shooter's Choice gun grease that is red so I know it's still there because it's still red. I've never had a single problem arise from using grease on the rails. I guess this confidence in grease comes from the grease I used to use on my Marlin 22LR. rifle bolt starting back in the 1960's. I always had grease left on the bolt after a day of shooting in the woods. It's been grease since then.
Gun grease/lube question
- Thread starter TGDKY
- Start date
DuPont Krytox
I don't know what DuPont Krytox is but it sounds super-cool and high-tech.
I've got to have it!
http://www2.dupont.com/Lubricants/en_US/industries/Industries.html
I don't know what DuPont Krytox is but it sounds super-cool and high-tech.
I've got to have it!
http://www2.dupont.com/Lubricants/en_US/industries/Industries.html
redstategunnut
New member
Quite right, almost any lube or even no lube at all wouldn't lead to a malfunction if the cycle were clean, lube, 200 easy rounds, repeat.
However, I've been in a number of high round count classes (read 750 rounds in a day for two to five days). Guys using grease did not have lubrication related gun problems. Guys using oils sometimes did have lubrication related problems, which were immediately remedied with grease. Likewise, some guns stood up to the round count and others choked before lunch on day one.
For lubrication of my guns, all of which are run hard, I'm going to use cheap ass bearing grease. I've run it, run it hard, run it hard under adverse conditions, and it works in semi-automatic pistols and rifles. And it works when other stuff won't, no matter how much you paid per ounce or which fancy manufacturer put their name on the bottle.
If I'm storing the gun long term and looking to mainly prevent corrosion, I'm going with Eezox because that's what has been demonstrated to my satisfaction to work the best for that purpose.
And no, I don't care what the manual says, either.
I talked to a DuPont tribologists about Krytox and he said it's not ideal to use on guns because it is 100% lubricant with no corrosion prevention properties. 
But he did say that if someone were going to grease the rails that GPL 204 Krytox grease would be what you'd use on the rails.
I also learned that they don't sell Krytox to the public
I should have listened to my mother - she wanted me to be a tribologist.
But he did say that if someone were going to grease the rails that GPL 204 Krytox grease would be what you'd use on the rails.
I also learned that they don't sell Krytox to the public
I should have listened to my mother - she wanted me to be a tribologist.
Except that covers a very wide range of compounds with widely varying characteristics and properties.
The MSDS is designed to highlight safety and handling issues for emergencies and use of the material.
It is not designed to try and define other differences in the materials use or purpose.
Quote:
In a manufacturing environment, it is common for the writing of a manual to be assigned to someone who majored in English ("writing"), rather than some with credentials in Lubrication. That person who has been assigned the task, will usually consult with persons who are available to answer questions that the writer does not know. The person who is asked those questions may or may not have the correct credentials to answer the questions correctly. In any event, the writer must produce a manual as directed and may or may not include someone's opinion that is not correct but pragmatic (Any lube is alright, just do not run it dry?). The writer may have asked the first machine operator he came to, and the operator, who lubes his machine with oil, may say: "Use oil, but sparingly." Now, did the operator have any special knowledge about lubrication? Such are the pitfalls of an appeal to authority (the company's published manual). I have seen it happen, I have been involved in it happening.
Guys who created a firearm = mechanical engineer. Does being a mechanical engineer qualify (credentials?) a person in lubrication as well as mechanical design?
No, you are. I said that only someone with "credentials" having to do with lubrication should have anything to say about lubrication.
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Mike Irwin
Staff
"I could probably fill all the zits on my car with Crisco lard and go down to the gas station and back and not have any trouble.
Could I drive from New York to San Francisco like that? - Probably NOT."
Apples and oranges comparison that's not even remotely valid.
An automobile is a FAR harsher environment than a firearm.
"No, you are. I said that only someone with "credentials" having to do with lubrication should have anything to say about lubrication."
So, what credentials do you have that allow you to say anything about firearms?
I'll give ANYONE on this site $100 if they can show me a gun that was - as certified by the factory or by a factory-certified expert - destroyed or substantially damaged as a result of using a particular oil or grease.
Could I drive from New York to San Francisco like that? - Probably NOT."
Apples and oranges comparison that's not even remotely valid.
An automobile is a FAR harsher environment than a firearm.
"No, you are. I said that only someone with "credentials" having to do with lubrication should have anything to say about lubrication."
So, what credentials do you have that allow you to say anything about firearms?
I'll give ANYONE on this site $100 if they can show me a gun that was - as certified by the factory or by a factory-certified expert - destroyed or substantially damaged as a result of using a particular oil or grease.
An eighth-grade education. That should be enough inasmuch as I have not posted my uneducated opinion on lubrication, but have but questioned the validity of opinions on the subject from those who have no apparent knowledge of the subject. I have seen such threads (where a knowledgeable person has shared their expertise), but this thread, so far, is not one of them. I have no credentials in the matter of brain surgery either, so I do not presume to offer an opinion on the subject.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"where a knowledgeable person has shared their expertise"
I must have missed those threads where the PhD members of the Society of Tribologists and Lubrication Engineers have weighed in heavily on the matter at hand.
Otherwise, unless they have a field-specific PhD in the tribologist sciences, their "expertise" is, by your apparent definition, nothing more than experience.
I must have missed those threads where the PhD members of the Society of Tribologists and Lubrication Engineers have weighed in heavily on the matter at hand.
Otherwise, unless they have a field-specific PhD in the tribologist sciences, their "expertise" is, by your apparent definition, nothing more than experience.
There was one a few weeks ago, however it may have been on a different gun forum...look as I might, I cannot find it. In any event the person explained the two different modes of lubrication, the virtues of the types of lubricants to accommodate those modes, and the makeup of the various lubricants. My "credentials" in metallurgy, metal processing, welding, and processes of industry, were sufficient to recognize that he knew what he was talking about.
Re: The value of experience. It depends on the experience. A person who studies the respiratory system in med school has far more valuable information to pass on than someone like me who has the experience of breathing for 68 years...I still do not know much about the respiratory system. I could pretend that I do and pass on some really incorrect theories I have developed, but no one should have to listen to them...I do not have those credentials.
In short, many people come to this board to learn, myself included. This board has two basic types of posters. Those who will pass on opinion as fact, and those who have the credentials to pass on meaningful and correct information. Which do you find more valuable. What would you prefer, a social out-let, or a place where a person can learn more about their most dear hobby?
Found it!
http://www.grantcunningham.com/lubricants101.html
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If you read my posts carefully, I do not take exception with people recounting their personal experiences with a lubricant (product). What I take exception with, is persons stating opinion as fact which they would have no way of knowing if it were true or false: "Automotive lubricants do not/can not, be as good as a lubricant designed for firearms use...", etc., etc. Of course they never go on and explain the basis for that treasure because there is no basis for what they stated...it is just unsupported opinion. It may be true...I do not know, but they certainly do not either.
In short, opinions are like anuses, everyone has one. But unless I am a proctologist, I do not care to look at yours and would not expect you to look at mine.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"What would you prefer, a social out-let, or a place where a person can learn more about their most dear hobby?"
vs.
"In short, opinions are like anuses, everyone has one. But unless I am a proctologist, I do not care to look at yours and would not expect you to look at mine."
So...
To which one do you adhere? You're sending mixed signals, here.
What's on Mr. Cunningham's page is also a bit unclear as to how you've presented it. Its he a tribologist? Or like the rest of us, just an experienced amaetur?
If the latter, it seems that you'd eschew his views as uninformed opinion.
Which is odd because a lot of what's in that article agrees with, in large part, what a lot of people here are saying.
vs.
"In short, opinions are like anuses, everyone has one. But unless I am a proctologist, I do not care to look at yours and would not expect you to look at mine."
So...
To which one do you adhere? You're sending mixed signals, here.
What's on Mr. Cunningham's page is also a bit unclear as to how you've presented it. Its he a tribologist? Or like the rest of us, just an experienced amaetur?
If the latter, it seems that you'd eschew his views as uninformed opinion.
Which is odd because a lot of what's in that article agrees with, in large part, what a lot of people here are saying.
For the people who have been in those classes or shooting matches or whatever where "just oil" has puportedly failed where grease has not - has anyone run across people using guns with Electroless Nickel w/Teflon finishes? (Like NP3 or NP3+, Cera-Plate, or similar)
I am wondering if anyone has any info on those
I am wondering if anyone has any info on those
This guy who wrote Lubrication 101 should have taken "English 101" he doesn't list one single citation for any of his claims!
If I had written a similar article in college, my professor would have failed me!
Who are those people? What "hyped" products specifically? Where are the tests results? Reference please...
He says "the list is endless and chock full of chemical names I can't begin to decipher!"
His final note should have been his preface:
In some ways this guy is worse than anyone who has posted here. I'm just posting on a forum, - this guy has his own web site!
If I had written a similar article in college, my professor would have failed me!
Who are those people? What "hyped" products specifically? Where are the tests results? Reference please...
He says "the list is endless and chock full of chemical names I can't begin to decipher!"
His final note should have been his preface:
In some ways this guy is worse than anyone who has posted here. I'm just posting on a forum, - this guy has his own web site!
Perhaps he wasn't turning this in as part of a class?
Remember, "experts" have had the world believing that:
the world is flat and you can fall off the edge
smoking cigarettes is good for you (from the doctors no less)
nuclear power is safe and clean (check with Japan, and Russia, and even the US)
etc...
Experts can also be seen at the forefront of "progress"; however, what we need is also a bit of common sense. An "appeal to authority" can bring one a mixed bag of results.
I have not seen anyone here advocating using epoxy on one's slide rails. Or replacing one's motor oil in their crankcase with wheel bearing grease.
I believe that Mike Irwin put it quite well:
You pays your money and you takes your chances; $8 for a quart of Mobil 1 or $7 for a tiny tube of gun grease, or...
YMMV or may not...
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I use FP10 and really like the stuff. I've used several different lubes over the years and wouldnt hesitate to use Mobil1, or any of the better synthetics.....if I had to! Personally, I like the performance and convenience of a CLP formulated for firearms. You can pry a hubcap off with a Randall knife, but like so many other things.....doesnt make it the best tool for the job. I have an entire rack in my garage of nothing but lubes, including EP grease tubes(Moly, Red lithium, Green grease, Marine grease), motor oils, gear lube, chain lube, ATF4, etc. Granted, a few of them may be better lubricants in the long run, but I'll leave it to the guys that formulate this stuff for a living when it comes to my investments, just as I trust the laboratories of Exxon for my motor oil. Maybe the guys screaming that "gun lubes" are a waste because they're basically the same as motor oil, would care to fill up their crankcase with a gun lube when their next oil change is due since it's "basically the same stuff"