Ignition Override
New member
Wow.
So many extremely far-fetched things to be worrying about.
On Christmas.
So many extremely far-fetched things to be worrying about.
On Christmas.
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Gun Confiscation
- Thread starter Bucksnort1
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bamaranger
New member
grip
The gov't has tremendous leverage on most of us without firing a shot, and a pre-existing pile of information. If you've bought a gun in the last what.......50 yrs.....you've filled out the paperwork and that is filed and researchable, especially now in the day of the computer.
If you collect SS money, the gov't has records of your checks. If you are a federal retiree, the gov't has records of your retirement and pension. So to military. And then there's medicare, which pays some amount for the health care of many.
Play those records and comforts against gun ownership, threaten their continuance if one does not comply, it's easy to see how compliance could be obtained.
The gov't has tremendous leverage on most of us without firing a shot, and a pre-existing pile of information. If you've bought a gun in the last what.......50 yrs.....you've filled out the paperwork and that is filed and researchable, especially now in the day of the computer.
If you collect SS money, the gov't has records of your checks. If you are a federal retiree, the gov't has records of your retirement and pension. So to military. And then there's medicare, which pays some amount for the health care of many.
Play those records and comforts against gun ownership, threaten their continuance if one does not comply, it's easy to see how compliance could be obtained.
I'll throw in my 2 cents, an awful lot of people, , hopefully a majority of people, will not give up what they legally purchased. I would hope vyhe regardless of confiscation or forced buy back, no one will turn them in. In addition, there is a large percentage of gun owners, any attempt at this would be a complete lack of representation which is also guaranteed by the Constitution. Gun owners need to act as a union and stick together 100%. No politicians could deal with trying to force any laws on a group that size.
I think you're giving the govt a bit more credit than they deserve. First off, there are LOTS of states where for the past 50 years+ buying a gun only involved paperwork if you bought it from an FFL dealer.
next point is that dealer's paperwork (4473 form) has (or had) a time limit on them, the dealer was only required to keep them a set number of years (I think 10) and after that, could dispose of the forms, if they so desired.
Next is dealers who went out of business were required to send their 4473 to the ATF, which were then stored, however people being people, I think more than a few records never went to the ATF, and I rather doubt all the records could even be found today
I think there would need to be a number of new laws passed before the govt. could do more than bluster. Though they will bluster...
And, I do agree that once a govt gets its hands on a bit of information, and knows it has it, it rarely goes away. But that doesn't mean they can do much with it.
Though they will try.
dontcatchmany
New member
Aquilla Blanca, Welcome Home Brother!
Bucksnort1
New member
Ignition Override,
You may have a point about far fetched things to worry about but I think of the story of a frog who is placed in a pot of cold water. The heat is turned on low. Eventually, the water is so hot, the frog loses.
Many years ago, Limbaugh described our situation like this. We are "fat dumb and happy". In other words, we don't see what's coming down the pike because everything is fine and, what could happen to us.
You may have a point about far fetched things to worry about but I think of the story of a frog who is placed in a pot of cold water. The heat is turned on low. Eventually, the water is so hot, the frog loses.
Many years ago, Limbaugh described our situation like this. We are "fat dumb and happy". In other words, we don't see what's coming down the pike because everything is fine and, what could happen to us.
What most people don't realize is the govt has no idea what anyone has bought or owns. You fill out the 4473 and it goes into a filing box and gets shoved in the backroom, or the basement, or in the case of my gun store .... the garage. And there it sits. If a gun turns up in a crime, the feds have to go to the manufacturer, they'll tell them what distributor it went to. Then they'll go to the distributor and find out which store it went to. Then they come knocking on the stores door and some poor shlump has to go in back and dig through the cases until they find the form for that gun and who bought it. It ain't easy, but the system works for tracking to criminals and that is all it needs to do.
This is why the first step to confiscation would have to be registration. Which is why we must always push back on any registration.
This is why the first step to confiscation would have to be registration. Which is why we must always push back on any registration.
Gun rights are more expansive now than at any time in the last 50 years. Plenty of liberals and Democrats oppose gun control. Liberals and minorities are buying guns at historic rates. It is simply not a priority for the Democrats. Yes, yes, some statements were made to appease Bloomberg's group, but, let's face it, if Obama didn't do anything (actually expanding gun rights), then there is no reason to expect Biden to do so.
"Confiscation" is a red herring designed to pitch American against American. I get the NRA doing it, as they are trying to raise money for their salaries and bonuses, but for thinking Americans, this is not a time to look for another divisive issue. It is an excuse to find another reason for American to hate American. Shameful . . .
"Confiscation" is a red herring designed to pitch American against American. I get the NRA doing it, as they are trying to raise money for their salaries and bonuses, but for thinking Americans, this is not a time to look for another divisive issue. It is an excuse to find another reason for American to hate American. Shameful . . .
Colorado Redneck
New member
Roscoe, I agree. This happens nearly every election cycle, especially if a Democrat is elected president. Reminds me of kids camping in the backyard that get themselves scared to death by telling ghost stories. 
Are there more gun laws on the books now or 50 years ago? What areas of the U.S. have the most gun control?
Except that it's in their party platform. Every single Democratic Presidential candidate in the primary debates called for gun control. When Robert O'Rourke shouted, "hell yes, we're going to take your AR-15," nobody so much as shrugged.
This is factually wrong. Among the things he did (or tried to do) to restrict ownership:
- banned the importation of 7n6 ammunition
- banned the importation of Russian weapons
- blocked the importation of surplus weapons from Korea
- ruled that silencer wipes were NFA weapons
- tried to get the Social Security Administration involved in disqualifying buyers
Sure, except for, well, his own recent statements. And that "hell yes" guy? Biden wants to make him point man for gun-control policy.
So, yes. There's every reason to believe we're going to have very real problems under the new administration.
I happened to see that myself, "live" when broadcast...nobody shrugged, they all SMILED, except Biden. Biden kept his usual slightly confused look, and stammered.."I don't think that's Constitutional...."
Am pretty sure the others were smiling, not because of the idea of gun control (which does please them) but because that, by making the announcement "Hell yes, we're going to take your AR-15", in public, LIVE, on national TV, where it couldn't be denied, edited out, or otherwise swept under the rug, MR O'Rourke has just taken himself out as a viable candidate.
THAT certainly pleased them..
Took the party about 2 days, and O'Rourke was off the list of contenders...
Not because of his stance on gun control, but because he committed the unpardonable sin of openly, forcefully stating THE TRUTH in a public forum.
Gun control is a Dem party "plank", has been for several years now. They ALL agree to it, and agree to support it, or they don't get support from the party. They just have a tacit agreement not to advertise that fact, an "unwritten rule" that "Beto" broke in a big way. That "wayward child (or rabid dog, depending on your point of view) got spanked and sent home. The Dems have learned that pushing gun control is something to be done ONLY AFTER they get elected. Doing it before the election costs them votes.
I keep hearing this, and maybe its true, if you take everything in the entire nation into account, but I'm sure not seeing this in my home state.
In the last half dozen years my state has added laws requiring mandatory background checks (conducted through an FFL dealer) on ALL "transfers" of firearms, the state concealed handgun license which used to bypass the state's waiting period no longer does, and every single semi auto rifle in the state is now legally a "semiautomatic assault rifle" which requires additional background checks, "training" classes, extra waiting period (10 days), approval by the head of law enforcement in you local area, and oh, yeah, opening your MEDICAL RECORDS to the police so they can decide, and do periodic reviews of your suitability to own such a weapon....
(the majority of these things are not, at this time, generally being enforced by the police, and the laws are under challenge in court, but they ARE the law, currently)
TO me, that is no way in hell able to be considered "more expansive" than what we had before. Just exactly the opposite.
SO, if gun rights are now "more expansive than any time in the past 50years" just where the hell are they more expansive???, because it certainly ISN'T in my state.
Exactly, many Democrats and Liberals are gun enthusiasts and oppose gun control. Gun rights advocates do not need to be divided along party lines, this is only a recent historical phenomenon, and the way that pro-gun people are portrayed has been thoroughly manipulated by the sensationalist media and also the self-serving NRA. I tried to post a poll here to see if we could get an idea of how we lean politically in the firearms community, but it got shut down : / . I think it would have been very insightful.
Anyway, something else to take into consideration: remember that the political pendulum swings. So the gun ban and confiscation laws that the coming administration could put into place would probably be undone a couple of election cycles later when the other party is back in power. That's what happened with the Federal Assault Weapons Ban of 1994 (Clinton), that expired in 2004 under Bush.
So if the gun ban comes, you could bury your gun in the hopes of digging it out in a few years when the law is repealed (at the risk of being found out and going to jail), or voluntarily give it up and buy a new one once the ban is over.
But IF a gun ban law comes, it is only going to be temporary.
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That is not exactly what happened.
The sunset provision was written in the 94 law, when it passed (under Clinton). That law was going to go away in 2004, no matter who was in office.
Congress in 2004 had the option of "re-authorizing" the law (in effect, voting it in, again) and did not. This is not the same as the Bush administration removing the law. The 94 AWB was "undone" by a provision written into it at the beginning. Not passing the same law again a decade later did not undo the 94 law. The practical effect was the same but the mechanism was different.
Think of it as canceling a subscription, vs letting it expire without renewing it.
We did not cancel the 94 law, it expired, and we did not renew it.
Same result but different means of getting it.
Not only did Obama ban the importation of Russian made firearms, he banned the importation of repair parts. I had a pair of Baikal IZH35M .22 rimfire target pistols that became paper weights thanks to Obama. I could no longer obtain parts, even simple consumable parts like springs. Baikal IZH is a Sister company of Kalashnikov, so my simple targets pistols were treated the same as a Russian made AK. It used to irritate the heck out of me when I would see people make the claim that Obama did nothing to restrict gun ownership. Now I just smile and think to myself how can people be so uninformed?
Jim Watson
New member
I agree with the gradual approach of JohnKSa.
I know of two cases locally of the random case's chilling effect.
A friend had an unregistered MP40 submachine gun, no doubt a WWII duffle bag souvenir.
After he died, there was no mention made of it in his effects. But some years later I heard of a rusty burp gun dredged up in the construction of a new bridge. I think it likely his family disposed of it quietly.
An irate soon-to-be-ex wife squealed on her husband's unregistered exhaust pipe + parts kit STEN gun. He was talking fast and apparently successfully; he might well have gotten away without charges, just confiscation of his toy. But the feds kept looking until they found his stock of powder, pipe, and cannon fuse. His story that it was only PVC pipe for "large firecrackers" did not wash and he did some time.
I know of two cases locally of the random case's chilling effect.
A friend had an unregistered MP40 submachine gun, no doubt a WWII duffle bag souvenir.
After he died, there was no mention made of it in his effects. But some years later I heard of a rusty burp gun dredged up in the construction of a new bridge. I think it likely his family disposed of it quietly.
An irate soon-to-be-ex wife squealed on her husband's unregistered exhaust pipe + parts kit STEN gun. He was talking fast and apparently successfully; he might well have gotten away without charges, just confiscation of his toy. But the feds kept looking until they found his stock of powder, pipe, and cannon fuse. His story that it was only PVC pipe for "large firecrackers" did not wash and he did some time.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
I'm not seeing it in a number of states. I think those who live in "free" states have a tendency to overlook what's happening in other states. There are states where ARs, AKs, and similar "assault weapons" cannot be bought or sold. There are states where ALL firearms transfers are subject to background checks and/or must go through an FFL. There are states in which ALL firearms sales get reported to the state police. There are states (many, and the list grows every year) that have "red flag" laws, under which almost anyone can make a complaint about you and the police will come and take away your guns -- BEFORE you have had a hearing. Before youj even know that a complaint has been made. The scary part is that legislators AND JUDGES in these states think these red flag laws are constitutional.44 AMP said:
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