GRIP ANGLE real problem or individual choice?

Look guys, part of the reason we kick this stuff around .....about grip angles, feel of triggers - how they break and reset, etc ....

is it really matters to a guy considering their first gun !! Not to most of us old shooters - that have 40 or 50 handguns ....

Too often first time buyers - buy what the shop tells them is a good value - and then they get around to shooting it ...and sometimes they like it, and sometimes they hate it ....or wish they had rented more guns, fired more guns, etc ....vs bought whatever looked cool at the time ....

I try and take associates, new shooters to the range 8 or 10 times a year to introduce someone to our pastime. I try very hard not to impart my own bias - based on what I shoot and collect / but sometimes it bleeds thru a little. Instead, I take them to my local range .....where it costs them about $ 150 - for 4 boxes of 9mm ammo / and to rent every 9mm in their case - Glocks, XD, H&K, Beretta, Sigs, Rugers - 1911's ...etc ........and we work thru each gun / making some notes .... and in Glocks we shoot 3 or 4 models, Sigs 3 or more models, etc .... and it works ...so they buy what "they like" ....and the grip angle, and trigger They like .....

but lets not pretend this is just Glock bashing ...it isn't ...
 
It might be "subjective", but comfort is a very subjective but important thing to me at least. As an example the grip angle of the S&W M-41 is wrong for me, the gun feels awkward and does not point properly. I have read that the mark of a good dueling pistol is that it ponts naturally and quickly. Another one that feels wrong to me is the Tokarev. The Luger is a natural pointer, IIRC the Colt SAA is as well. Grip angle on a semiauto is as important as comfortable grips on a revolver IMHO.
 
Grip angle doesn't affect anything. When you assume the proper grip on a pistol whether or not the correct part of your trigger finger is able to easily reach the trigger is what matters most.
 
"whether or not the correct part of your trigger finger is able to easily reach the trigger is what matters most."

So where the gun is pointed when you draw and fire is secondary to being able to reach the trigger? Remind me to stand well behind you when you shoot.

:confused:
 
People who love a certain model of gun will excuse it's shortcomings. They will even convince themselves that it doesn't have a shortcoming.

To me, ergonomics is very important, but that's just me.

A gun should be comfortable in the hand and simple to operate. It should be a natural pointer. In polymer framed guns, I prefer Smith & Wesson for this reason, they feel like they are part of the hand and they point where the finger points without having to get use to it.

Whatever feels and points right to you is what's right for you.
 
I sure don't pick a gun based on what the govt buys / or the local police dept for that matter either ....that's often primarily about price ...( and price is important / but it isn't in my top 5 criteria on picking a gun ) ....
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About price????? So how many departments are carrying HiPoints? For someone new to firearms selecting a handgun based on what LE or Military forces use is a good way to guarantee getting something rugged and reliable. Both are in my top 5 criteria.
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Don't kid yourself. Price is a huge issue when it comes to departments that pay for the guns of its officers. Yes, the guns will be rugged and reliable, but rugged and reliable covers a huge spectrum of guns. Bigger departments will also get money from the trade-in of the old gun to offset the price. They will often receive armorer instruction for one or more officers to handle the regular service on the new guns, some form of parts package, etc.

So while the guns chosen may have been fairl good guns, many departments came to realize, especially in the last couple of decades, that a percentage of their officers' hands didn't properly fit the guns they were being issued. This result in departments getting special rates not just on one model of gun from a given company, but multiple models. Companies that could not provide multiple size offerings either got dropped from consideration or the department just said the officers would have to deal with the problem personally, or they allowed substitution for the officers.

So part of what makes officer guns seem so rugged and reliable is that if a gun does have a problem, the department armorer will have the part onhand and the knowledge to effect a repair almost immediately. Also note that guns carried by many police officers really only have to be rugged and reliable for being carried in and drawn from a holster. Given that most officers don't regularly practice, it is conceiveable that over a 5-10 year typical service life that an officer may put less than a couple thoursand rounds through their gun. Think of all the officers that only shoot their guns during reqular qualifications (such as once a year for Dallas PD) and only shoot extra rounds either to practice right before qualifying or because they failed the qualification and have to repeat it. So during that time frame, the guns may work great for that very low number of rounds fired, despite appearing to have a long history of working well.

The single greatest stress most officers put on their sidearms is improper maintenance.

Note that many departments that let officers choose their own guns and that have officers pay for their own guns will often have a list of several makes and models from which officers can choose. My local department (~100 officers) used to have something like 10 makes and models. From that list, officers usually chose Glock. Why? It was the least expensive model.
 
Note that many departments that let officers choose their own guns and that have officers pay for their own guns will often have a list of several makes and models from which officers can choose. My local department (~100 officers) used to have something like 10 makes and models. From that list, officers usually chose Glock. Why? It was the least expensive model.
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Here in Miami-Dade County, that's how we roll... ;)
 
For me, it was the grip angle on the Glock that kept me from purchasing. Although at the time I didn't know it. It just didn't feel right in my hand. It took a few months of reading others cheers and jeers with Glock before I realized what it was I didn't like.
 
To me grip angle is a personal choice. I like the grip angle of my Beretta 92 and my 1911, but don't like the grip angle of a Glock, plus I prefer thumb safeties/decockers. I sold a Ruger SR9 because I didn't like the slimness of the grip nor the way the gun tilted up slightly similar to but not as severe as a Glock. That's not to bash a Glock or the SR9 in any way, both proven to be excellent guns. If I liked any pistol enough I could adjust to the grip but as of now I haven't had to do that.
 
sserdlihc said:
For me, it was the grip angle on the Glock that kept me from purchasing. Although at the time I didn't know it. It just didn't feel right in my hand. It took a few months of reading others cheers and jeers with Glock before I realized what it was I didn't like.
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Really? Well that's awesome how you didn't know why until you saw others reasoning. That makes sense. Very honest and real post. So I guess it does exist.

I just haven't noticed it. Thanks for sharing. I'll shut up now lol
 
Sometimes we only figure things out...

... after listening to others, or watching others, and then trying again ourselves.

For instance, I tried to teach a guy today not to lean forward when executing a takedown, because if the guy doing the throw does lean forward, then: 1) the guy being thrown may grab the thrower, and take him along for the ride, and 2) the guy doing the throw can hurt his lower back.

The guy understood the theory, but couldn't figure out the feel - he wasn't doing it properly, so he couldn't contrast and compare against doing it improperly. Another guy showed up, a friend of mine who practices some of the same stuff, and he and I were able to demo good form vs bad form.

So then the first guy could see the difference proper alignment made. Not only that, but now I could coach him as he threw another person. (It's harder to fix their position and posture when they are trying to load you up.) Only then did he get the right form, and only then could he tell the difference from what he had been trying to do.

He didn't realize how far off his form was, until he finally got it right.

In the same way, people don't realize the difference some small details can make in a firearm, until they find one that fits them properly. And if they have never found one that did fit, they may not have any way to describe what did not fit on previous weapons. Nothing against which to compare.
 
lee.n.field

And yet, some people have marked preferences between DA grip types vs SA grip types.

I, for one, do not like the SAA/SBH/Vaquero grip feel. I shoot better with, and prefer the recoil characteristics of, the DA style of grip.

So, I no longer own an SBH, although I have a 29 and a 629. Just so you don't think I'm Ruger-bashing, I also have and like a GP100.

I know several people who vastly prefer the SA type of grip, and who are good about letting the weapon roll back in their hand, to lessen perceived recoil. Again, it can just be what the shooter is accustomed to.
 
Not really.

Grip angle is a factor in overall fit.

Grip angle also affects POI in point-shooting.

Same animal, two limbs.
 
Lately Ive been buying more Glocks than anything else, but I own or have owned Colts (and the copys), HK's, SIG's, S&W's, and some others.

For the money, both guns and accessories, the Glocks cant be beat. The others (the named ones above, not the copys and some of the "others". You can have them. :) ), while good, just dont warrant the money for me.
 
Fit and grip angle are to different animals.
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Well let's see, if we reverse the grip angle of a Glock from a positive 20 degrees off of vertical (110 degrees) to a negative 20 in the other direction (70 degrees), will grip angle affect fit? Sure.

Will reversing the grip angle affect the shooter? Absolutely. Will it matter? Yep. However, that argument isn't very realistic. It would appear that threegun's position is that grip angle isn't an issue to him because for the commercial guns he has attempted to use which I assume would go from a vertical 90 degree to a positive 35 degrees (125 degrees) of a Luger. I may be wrong, but I don't know of and modern guns with a grip angle any further off from vertical than a Luger. If there is, I am sure someone will point it out.

If you go back to some of the earlier black powder guns that had no sights, you will find many with grip angles way off from veritcal by 45-60 degrees. These guns were much more difficult to shoot via aimed fired (sighting down the barrel) as the wrist had to be bent at an extreme angle. They were best suited for firing from a lowered position as in shooting from waist level.

So too far in either direction, I think most folks can agree that grip angle becomes a problem. Most modern guns are not at these extreme angles and the variation between makes and models isn't sufficient to bother threegun. Good for him.

You know the tiny sights of the original 1911 aren't too bad for most shooters under 30 years of age, but are problematic for far-sighted younger shooters and older shooters whose vision is deteriorating. Is the move the the larger combat sights and even the Big Dot sights a problem or a matter of convenience? Well, if the teeny tiny nature of the original 1911 sights (and Luger as well) doesn't bother you because you have good vision or corrected vision, then you might be inclined to call it a matter of convenience and not a true problem, but it is a true problem for folks who need to wear glasses to see up close. Sure, these folks can be trained to shoot without depending on those pesky little sights. Point shooting is all the rage these days and people frequently claim great accuracy out beyond distances your general issue CCW person shoots well with proper sights. However, not everyone does well with those pesky little sights, even with corrected vision and not everyone gets trained in precision point shooting. So is this a real problem or a matter of convenience?

Getting back to grip angle, not everyone does as well with the grip angles of various models of guns. Some really do like the straight up vertical grips. I don't. Some like the 1911's angle, Glock's angle, or even Luger's angle. Some don't have the flexibility in their joints to adapt to a wide range of grip angles. My geriatric 75 year old arthritic mother shot 98% on her last Texas CHL test. The test is easy, but she outshot two cops in the class, so it is obviously challenging for some. She shoots a Glock 26. The grip angle is great for her. The grip angle of a 1911 (in 9mm) causes her pain when she shoots. The Luger seemed like it would be okay until she tried sighted fire and realized that like with the old black powder guns with their more extreme angle from vertical, it caused her pain to bend her wrist further over to line up the sights on the Luger.

So is grip angle an issue of convenience or a real problem? Like with sights, if they don't bother you, then you are likely to think it is a matter of convenience. If they do bother you, then it is a real problem. Just because something does not bother you does not mean that it isn't a problem for others.
 
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